Medieval Knife Sheaths (and knives)

[AlexOstacchini]

Hello everyone

I have so far only posted Sheridan style things but my main interest really is in European Medieval history. The scabbards are very much secondary objects in this case but there is leather involved and any history nerds out there might find it interesting, so here are a couple of medieval eating knives. These are both in the style of 14th/15th century examples- not exact copies of any originals in particular but borrowing design elements from the many knives and scabbards in the museum of London. 

The general standard of leatherwork in my reference was not the best, and some was down right terrible, and obviously I was much more limited than usual in what tools I could use, but I am quite pleased with the end results. These were both done freehand and you can tell- nothing has been measured and really it's all comparatively crude, but that is what the real ones look like and that was the aim here. Masterpieces of leather crafting they are not, but the original sheaths rarely were either it seems. Obviously I didn't want them to look rubbish but it's nice not worrying about neatness for a change!

Technical specs- Both of these are 2mm veg tan, wet formed around the knife and then tooled. Occasionally they were double layered but these are not. The aim seems to have been just to overwhelm the eye with stuff, so if there is space, fill it with crosshatching or dots or anything to make it more interesting. The larger sheath has gothic lettering as it was for my brother's birthday, no prizes for guessing his name. They both have a back central seam stitched with waxed linen, and a couple of hanging thongs rather than modern belt loops.  

For anyone interested the knives themselves are both hand forged from 1080 carbon steel, with olive handle scales and brass pins and bolsters. 

I hope you like them!

cheers

Alex

[robs456]

Both cool, but from the authenticity perspective I like the second one, the design is quite spot on.
Looks like you cut it though, and I hear they rarely did that...if you didn't please let me know what tool you used.
Knives are nice too.

[battlemunky]

I know crap all about what it used to look like but I think both of these look great.

[YinTx]

Those are really cool!  What about the backs?

YinTx

[toxo]

Good job. Love those handles.

[AlexOstacchini]

Cheers all

1 hour ago, robs456 said:

Both cool, but from the authenticity perspective I like the second one, the design is quite spot on.
Looks like you cut it though, and I hear they rarely did that...if you didn't please let me know what tool you used.

Many thanks, and I believe you are right, I was actually in two minds about this myself. Going off Janet Russell's 'English Medieval Leatherwork' article, apparently cut decoration was very common for the later medieval period and there are a few sheaths where this is the case, but in 'knives and scabbards' from the museum of London they basically all seem to just have pressed decoration, including the example that I used as my main reference for the second sheath. In the end this was just a personal choice as I felt it would give a better impression and I am more familiar with it, but I think really I should have used a blunter tool to be more historically correct! I shall do some experimenting before the next one... :p 

 

39 minutes ago, YinTx said:

Those are really cool!  What about the backs?

whoops, here they are! Not very pretty I'm afraid

[YinTx]

Those are pretty unique.  I don't see how you could make them any "prettier."  I rather like the look.

YinTx

[Sofaspud]

Those are really cool.  Maybe the decorations are not absolutley historically accurate (couldn't prove it by me), but they capture the flavor of the era very well. Back in my SCA days I would have killed for a knife and sheath like those.  Much better than what I made.

[chrisash]

Realistically just like today, every leather worker would have done there own thing with design. no doubt that with relatively little movement of the population outside of their birthplace, fashion would change county to county, and the main cities would see a small selection of the designs, whilst the capital cities would no doubt have a fashion to follow for the richer customers

[robs456]

14 hours ago, AlexOstacchini said:

Going off Janet Russell's 'English Medieval Leatherwork' article

 Ah OK, I just read "Leather and Leatherworking in Anglo-Scandinavian and Medieval York" looking for some hints on when they really started 'cutting in' with intent. Even the French used the push technique until late and I guess, please correct me if I'm wrong, the Spanish started stamping as we know it in the 1400s. Edit: Came from the Moors I've heard somewhere.

And at this time, did the leatherworkers decorate or was it done by the users themselves? Evidence point to the latter, but for me it makes more sense if it was a selling point....

Edited October 14, 2019 by robs456

[AlexOstacchini]

Thanks again all! These are my first attempts really both at knives and this style of sheath- hopefully lots more to come!

 

6 hours ago, robs456 said:

And at this time, did the leatherworkers decorate or was it done by the users themselves? Evidence point to the latter, but for me it makes more sense if it was a selling point....

I have no doubt both occured, but I would think probably leatherworkers as they apparently had their own independant sheath guild from at least the mid 1300s. I am mostly familiar with the London examples which is obviously a limited pool to go off, but a fair number have stamped decoration which in my mind points to them being done professionally- Some of the stamps are really quite intricate and must have been quite specialised tools so i wouldn't have thought it likely to have been owned by anyone otherwise. That is purely speculative on my part and I am definitely no expert. That being said there are other examples that are very crudely decorated. 

I wasn't aware of the book you mentioned, but it looks great and I might just have to order a copy as i'd love to know more about this. My main reference material for this sort of thing is 'knives and scabbards', which i'm sure you'll know about already but is really an excellent book if you don't. It mentions cutting the leather (or incising i think is the term used) was very popular in the 14th-15th centuries, but does not show many examples where this is the case...  

 

cheers!

Alex

[robs456]

5 minutes ago, AlexOstacchini said:

but a fair number have stamped decoration which in my mind points to them being done professionally

OK goody, seems my timeline on the Spanish/Moors is wrong, back to study...

5 minutes ago, AlexOstacchini said:

I wasn't aware of the book you mentioned, but it looks great and I might just have to order a copy as i'd love to know more about this. My main reference material for this sort of thing is 'knives and scabbards', which i'm sure you'll know about already but is really an excellent book if you don't.

I managed to get a PDF of it from Googling, seemed legit too but don't remember the source.
I've heard about 'Knives and Scabbards' but never had a look as I'm more interested in the nordic/scandinavian decorations (how I found the book/pdf...).

 

 

[wizard of tragacanth]

Very nice work... and quite interesting. I had no idea that "eating knives" were a thing... other than a table knife, as we know it.

nick

Edited October 15, 2019 by wizard of tragacanth
you know

[Peter Darby]

I like it.   I do a lot of medieval style sheaths.  Below is one I did for an exhibit of the various styles of stitching they used in constructing their sheaths.  I find it fascinating puzzling out how they did there backstitching.  Sometimes, as yours shows they stitched them up the back and sometimes they stitched them on the side then turned them.  Often I find that the way they did things is better than what we do now.  I use a Hedeby style quiver worn as a back quiver and have converted many an archer from the bandoleer style  the Viking (or Arabic) style quiver.  I look forward to seeing more of your work.

[HondoMan]

To revive a 5 years old topic....

What would the job or title of the craftsman who made knife sheaths?  Can't seem to find that wee piece of info.

Pouchemaker?  Girdler?  Glover?  Loriner?  Saddler?  Most like no to all. 

I've often wondered who, in the 12th-16th Centuries, made things like knife sheaths and scabbards, arm cuffs, and the odd things the above didn't make.

Ideas or thoughts?

[fredk]

Try Cutler. He finished off knives from the black smith.ready for sale and it seemed it included the sheaths 

[AlexOstacchini]

16 hours ago, HondoMan said:

To revive a 5 years old topic....

What would the job or title of the craftsman who made knife sheaths?  Can't seem to find that wee piece of info.

Pouchemaker?  Girdler?  Glover?  Loriner?  Saddler?  Most like no to all. 

I've often wondered who, in the 12th-16th Centuries, made things like knife sheaths and scabbards, arm cuffs, and the odd things the above didn't make.

Ideas or thoughts?

No worries, I recently finished a big batch of medieval knives and sheaths and this reminds me I should upload a few newer pictures, they have come on a bit since these two.

In terms of who made them I don't have any of my references handy at present but I believe 'sheather' was its own separate profession- Googling this doesn't' bring up much but a bit of digging and you will find it mentioned. I have certainly read this somewhere in a breakdown of the various guilds involved in making a knife. As FredK mentions cutler seems to be the one that effectively commissioned the various components and assembled them into a finished product. 

There is a fantastic book called 'Covering the Blade' which deals purely with this subject, and 'Knives and scabbards' is another I would recommend. I suspect I would have read about specialist sheath makers in one of those.