Need help learning this construction method please? Interlocking?

[ddct70cc]

Good evening.....

 

I remember seeing something similar to this quite a while back on here....and I thought I saw a tutorial on it, but for the life of me I cannot remember what the construction method is called or how to research how to do it.  I know someone on here can help ,e...everyone is so knowledgeable here.  :)

 

Thank you kindly for your help...I’d like to incorporate this construction method on a bag I’m making soon.

[RockyAussie]

From memory I think it is referred to normally as stitchless construction. I had a play with it awhile back and called it the holy poke method

At any rate here's a couple of pictures that might just help a bit. I do not recommend doing the bottom as I did as it makes it very difficult to weave together without stitching inside along the bottom to hold it together.

 have fun and remember to post some pics when you got it beat.

[Northmount]

Check out his link https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-No-Stitch-Leather-Flask-Cover/?fbclid=IwAR2Ltepn9Rm7hOgT9dDzDxFnYaqMHyuS59HP0QkZQ0PxdLUowahTX3uFon4

Tom

[arashikage]

I finally remembered where I recently saw this! The Sept/Oct issue of "Leather Crafters and Saddles Journal" has a small tutorial on how to make this. They call it a "welted" seam. They mention it was originally referred to as a Marshall welt.

 You can order individual issues but I don't think they have an online option. https://leathercraftersjournal.com/product/2019-volume-29-no-5-sep-oct/

[billybopp]

This might be helpful . 

- Bill

[KJD2121]

Nice video.  Where can we buy the creaser he is using?  Anyone know?

[Hardrada]

That looks like an electric creaser. Since he's Korean, he probably gets access to stuff we don't, but here's a selection of the same thing available in North America: Electric creasers and other machines.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Hardrada

[ddct70cc]

Thanks so much, everyone!  I really appreciate your sharing this info with me!  I will certainly share pics of the bag once it's finished.  I am going to make it sized to carry an iPad Pro 11", so probably will be slightly bigger than the one in the pic.  I can't wait to start on it.  I bought some 2mm thick foam to try to model a pattern with so that should help in getting the gusset width and stitch distance correct.

Thank you again folks!

[Hardrada]

2 hours ago, ddct70cc said:

I bought some 2mm thick foam to try to model a pattern with so that should help in getting the gusset width and stitch distance correct.

No, thank YOU for mentioning that. I've been struggling to find a material thicker than paper and firmer than fabric to make prototype patterns. Now I know what to use.

[ddct70cc]

Hi again folks!

I've been trying to work out this pattern for a while now in between orders and still having a bit of trouble.

In the meantime, I bought a pattern by “hahns atelier” which uses this same construction method for the sides of a long wallet.  I enlarged the pattern to 120% to scale up just that portion of the pattern to use on the pattern for this bag (pic in the first post).

Unfortunately, when you do that, it leaves a large, gaping hole at the bottom of the seam where it needs to be solid to hold small items inside the bag.

I’m going to try to keep experimenting with it, but it’s pretty hard to get everything tweaked right so it will work out to the right size with the proper width to the bag......I’m trying to build in some width to the bag so it’ll hold more than just really flat items, but it’s difficult to do using this stitchless construction method.  

Any brainstorming would be very much appreciated.....struggling here....lol

[Northmount]

14 hours ago, ddct70cc said:

enlarged the pattern to 120%

The bag, or the welted seam?  The hole spacing for the welted seam can't be scaled up.  Just add more holes and make it longer.   And of course if you leave gaps in any joins, stuff will fall through.

Tom

[ddct70cc]

Why can the welted seam not be scaled up?  How would you go about making a larger spacing between the holes if you do not increase the scale?

[Northmount]

37 minutes ago, ddct70cc said:

Why can the welted seam not be scaled up?  How would you go about making a larger spacing between the holes if you do not increase the scale?

To begin with, I would say that the spacing of the holes and the size of the holes depends a lot on the thickness of the leather.

And it only makes sense that if you don't want gaps large enough for small stuff to eventually fall through, that means the holes have to stay close together, as in the original patterns.

This is all my opinion as I haven't made any projects using this seam yet.  I have been collecting information and photos to use it some day.

Tom

[RockyAussie]

22 hours ago, ddct70cc said:

Unfortunately, when you do that, it leaves a large, gaping hole at the bottom of the seam where it needs to be solid to hold small items inside the bag

I would need to see a picture of this to understand I think.

When I have done any patterning on this it has been with regard to the size of hole punch I want to use firstly. Either side of the pattern has to have the holes falling exactly between the holes on the other side. As you can see in my drawing above the hole size is exactly the width between the holes as the hole size itself. the distance in from the edge to the centre of the hole is determined somewhat by the leather thickness but also for  setting the thickness that I want the pouch to be. In the pictures above showing the pouch I made for a phone, I decided that a 7mm punch centred at 14mm apart would work and 8.5mm in from the edge to the centre of the hole. This gives roughly a 17mm opening inside the pouch when weaved together. If I wanted a wider opening I could come in from the edge further as long as the pattern was made larger for the article to be placed within later. depending on the leather stiffness it may need to have the tabs that get woven in to be glued down as well to form the box shape more. This is fairly easy patterning with Cad drawing programs but a fair lot of work without I would think.

I must add that how I describe the method above is only one that I worked out for myself and other people may use other methods which may be better. 

[fredk]

I've been following this on the Q-T. Interesting construction method. I've finally got my head around it. Now to design somat I can use it on

[ddct70cc]

20 hours ago, Northmount said:

To begin with, I would say that the spacing of the holes and the size of the holes depends a lot on the thickness of the leather.

And it only makes sense that if you don't want gaps large enough for small stuff to eventually fall through, that means the holes have to stay close together, as in the original patterns.

Thank you for explaining that, Tom...that makes sense now and I’ll try to keep that in mind when I make the pattern.

 

17 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

I would need to see a picture of this to understand I think.

When I have done any patterning on this it has been with regard to the size of hole punch I want to use firstly. Either side of the pattern has to have the holes falling exactly between the holes on the other side. As you can see in my drawing above the hole size is exactly the width between the holes as the hole size itself. the distance in from the edge to the centre of the hole is determined somewhat by the leather thickness but also for  setting the thickness that I want the pouch to be. In the pictures above showing the pouch I made for a phone, I decided that a 7mm punch centred at 14mm apart would work and 8.5mm in from the edge to the centre of the hole. This gives roughly a 17mm opening inside the pouch when weaved together. If I wanted a wider opening I could come in from the edge further as long as the pattern was made larger for the article to be placed within later. depending on the leather stiffness it may need to have the tabs that get woven in to be glued down as well to form the box shape more. This is fairly easy patterning with Cad drawing programs but a fair lot of work without I would think.

I must add that how I describe the method above is only one that I worked out for myself and other people may use other methods which may be better. 

That is extremely helpful info!!!  I hope I’m able to fully grasp the math and geometry involved so that my pattern will work out.  Sadly, I do not have Illustrator, AutoCAD, etc. so this is all being done by hand.  
 

Thanks again to everyone for helping me out here.  Great information to have!!!

[fredk]

Is it better to have

a. just one set of holes cut through to from the edge? 

b. to cut the sides of that cut to an 'arrow head', or just trim them a bit, or need they be trimmed at all? I'm thinking, trimmed to an 'arrow head' might be removing too much material for the gripping, not trimmed and the bits might not lie flush too well, just a little trimming will help them get through the other hole but yet have enough material to grip

??

[RockyAussie]

4 hours ago, fredk said:

Is it better to have

a. just one set of holes cut through to from the edge? 

b. to cut the sides of that cut to an 'arrow head', or just trim them a bit, or need they be trimmed at all? I'm thinking, trimmed to an 'arrow head' might be removing too much material for the gripping, not trimmed and the bits might not lie flush too well, just a little trimming will help them get through the other hole but yet have enough material to grip

??

It can be done to some degree with one set of holes cut to the edge but it is quicker and easier to weave them together when both sets are done. (once you get the hang of the technique. Do 2 strips with evenly spaced holes and slits and see what I mean.

Where possible it is better to not have any arrow head but when you do a curve join it is necessary in order to give the leather somewhere to go with out needing to overlap. I do not recommend putting in curved corners as I did as it is very hard to get around weaving the curve together. I ended up cheating on the base line and stitching both sides closed on the hole outsides in order to stop them coming apart as I tried to get around the corners.It worked but was an unnecessary part of the design unless you want to do it in  expensive exotic skin where using small pieces become desirable.

[fredk]

thank you

[RockyAussie]

yr welcome

[Leerwerker]

A lady in our guild showed us this 12 years ago: