(first post) Used Sewing machines

[Donkeykong]

Hi all,

I'm just getting started in leather working and have been having some fun with it so far. For my first project I fixed my horses girth (the part that the belt goes in so it doesn't poke me in the leg while riding broke, and I decided it was a good as an excuse as any to drop $200++ in materials to fix a $60 girth LOL). Moving on from there I made a sheath for my round knife, and a mystery weave bracelet for my little girl. I'm quickly realizing that I want to get into a sewing machine for some of the projects I have in mind that are very stitching-intensive: I want to make my daughter custom chaps (she is tiny, and everything on the market is too long, or too small in the waist)... I want to make a leather bridle and eventually halter for my Shire horse... I want to make some tool-rolls for my wrenches at work... all of which will take me hours to try and hand sew. Having a farm it's going to be practical to try and start getting busy with this newfound hobby if every project is going to take me 12+ hours. I'll have to try and get a few pictures uploaded. It's been ages since  I have been on a forum, do we still need to get the pictures hosted elsewhere, or can I upload them to this site?

Anyways about the topic..... I am not sure if anyone has every heard of this place, but there is a used industrial machine place not far from me who happens to have random sewing machines. I see a few singers, a few juki and a pfaff. I can't tell if any of them are complete, or even worth looking at. Hopefully posting links is ok? I haven't seen anything against it: HGR Industrial Surplus If anything is worth going to look at, please let me know, the place is less than an hour from me. Some of the descriptions are wrong, but the pictures are not bad. I see they even have some cobbler machines which I would imagine have the power, but I don't see walking feet on them, so I have to assume they will not serve me very well.

 

Thanks in advance!!

 

Mark in Ohio

[toxo]

Welcome Mark. That link isn't working. Think it's because I'm in the UK.

Pictures on here are encouraged but have a size limit which isn't a problem if you resize. Lots of info on here about how to do that. Good luck with your projects.

[Constabulary]

2 hours ago, toxo said:

Welcome Mark. That link isn't working. Think it's because I'm in the UK.

Pictures on here are encouraged but have a size limit which isn't a problem if you resize. Lots of info on here about how to do that. Good luck with your projects.

Geo blocking! They have blocked IP´s from certain countries. I only can see the website by using VPN or TOR.

Well these machines do no look very promising. They look like written off machines from a sewing plant. I guess most of them are sold for parts. Do not expect any support from them.

[dikman]

The link worked for me in Australia. Interesting site, some of those could be worth it for the table and legs alone! Mark, until you have a lot more knowledge about machines I'd suggest you give places like that a miss, too easy to get caught out. You are going to be faced with the same unpalatable truth that many face when starting out - to do what you envisage you'll likely need more than one machine. For the lighter stuff (and might include the chaps, I'm not sure about them) the usual upholstery class machine with 3/8" under the foot and up to #138 thread should suffice. If you intend doing horse tack, which sounds highly likely, then you'll probably need a harness stitcher too (heavy duty sucker!).

Having said that, a Cowboy 3200 might come pretty close to doing almost everything, depending on how heavy the horse tack is likely to be. Unless you want to invest a lot of time to learn how to adjust and maintain an industrial machine I'd suggest you consider buying from a reputable dealer who can give you support, whether you buy new or used. There's lifetimes of knowledge and experience on here (not me!) so you've come to the right place to point you in the right direction.

[RockyAussie]

The prices to me look incredibly cheap and many are good name brand machines. I would find someone that is familiar with a variety of industrial machines and offer to pay them to check them out with you and advise which ones are going to do the jobs you would want to do with them. At those prices I am sure they would be interested to have a good look themselves anyway. There are many every day use machines that are generally easy to get new parts for as well. I would be there looking with ya cept Australia's a little bit toooooo far away.

 

[trash treasure]

I can view the link - At first, I thought the first machine shown, the "SMX", might be a candidate, but on closer inspection, it looks to be a double needle Singer 112, and missing a bunch of parts. I don't see anything else there that's really suited to what you want to do - But maybe keep checking that place, as you never know what might turn up.

[arashikage]

Most of the machines they have right now aren't really what you want. It sounds like you should look for a cylinder arm machine. You could talk to Bob at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machine. He may have a used machine that would work or can get you new. He's probably about 3 hours from you but provides great support over the phone. 

Or you can wait until June and attend the annual Weaver Leather consignment auction in Mt Hope and see what they have. I think about 2 - 2.5 hours or so from you.

[Wizcrafts]

On 12/3/2019 at 9:00 AM, Donkeykong said:

I want to make my daughter custom chaps (she is tiny, and everything on the market is too long, or too small in the waist)... I want to make a leather bridle and eventually halter for my Shire horse... I want to make some tool-rolls for my wrenches at work.

On 12/3/2019 at 9:00 AM, Donkeykong said:

there is a used industrial machine place not far from me who happens to have random sewing machines.

You are wanting to make leather items spanning a fairly wide range of thicknesses. Chaps with a folded hem are about 8 to 10 ounces thick. Bridles and halters can range from 14 to 24 ounces thickness.

Chaps hems can be secured with #138 bonded thread (~22#). Bridles and halters that take a lot of stress need stronger thread, like #277 (~44#). The machines normally used to sew these ranges are different. Chaps are usually sewn on flatbed walking foot machines that max out with #138 thread. Some have large bobbins that can go a long way between reloads. Bridles and halters and other horse tack is usually sewn on cylinder arm harness stitching machines that have a lower end of #138 thread and go up from there. Some of these machines can sew 1/2 inch while others sew up to 7/8 inch. But, something has to give on such heavy machines and that something is the lower thicknesses and smaller needles and thread. Chaps can be sewn on these harness stitchers but not as conveniently as on a flatbed machine.

A lot of new sewers ask similar questions as you asked. They are looking for one machine that sews from very thin to very thick leather and handles thread sizes from garment weight to hand sewing weight. There was one machine I know of that claimed to do all that, but it is long gone. Even if one found that machine, parts would be made of unobtanium. You will have to make a decision to purchase a standard size walking foot machine for lighter weight projects that are fine with thinner thread up to #138 and another one for thick and hard leather and heavy thread (e.g., 207,  277, 346).

BTW: The thread used in these machines is either bonded nylon or bonded polyester. Hand sewing thread does not work in modern industrial sewing machines as it clogs the eye of the needle and is too thick to be tensioned and cannot go around most of the shuttles in common use.

 

[Donkeykong]

Thank you for all the excellent responses, I did end up speaking with someone at Toledo, I'm assuming it was bob... he did suggest the cowboy 3200 based on our conversations, but as I'm getting my head around what I am wanting to do, I think I am going to end up with more than one machine...

On 12/4/2019 at 9:02 AM, arashikage said:

Most of the machines they have right now aren't really what you want. It sounds like you should look for a cylinder arm machine. You could talk to Bob at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machine. He may have a used machine that would work or can get you new. He's probably about 3 hours from you but provides great support over the phone. 

Or you can wait until June and attend the annual Weaver Leather consignment auction in Mt Hope and see what they have. I think about 2 - 2.5 hours or so from you.

Wherein NE Ohio are you out of? You're right about both time/distances... I find myself in Toledo from time to time for work which is really nice... and even better is that I'm in a transit van with more than adequate cargo space This leather working community is super friendly/helpful. I think my next project will be a tool roll.... I'll make a point of posting it up here... planning on hand stitching, I think this will be this first "big" project that I'll be starting... the sewing machine is going to either be really high priority, or I'll see that I can work well without one. How do I get more info on the weaver event? It's certainly something I would like to attend... I see they have a store near Wooster? Is that Mount Hope? 

 

22 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

You are wanting to make leather items spanning a fairly wide range of thicknesses. Chaps with a folded hem are about 8 to 10 ounces thick. Bridles and halters can range from 14 to 24 ounces thickness.

Chaps hems can be secured with #138 bonded thread (~22#). Bridles and halters that take a lot of stress need stronger thread, like #277 (~44#). The machines normally used to sew these ranges are different. Chaps are usually sewn on flatbed walking foot machines that max out with #138 thread. Some have large bobbins that can go a long way between reloads. Bridles and halters and other horse tack is usually sewn on cylinder arm harness stitching machines that have a lower end of #138 thread and go up from there. Some of these machines can sew 1/2 inch while others sew up to 7/8 inch. But, something has to give on such heavy machines and that something is the lower thicknesses and smaller needles and thread. Chaps can be sewn on these harness stitchers but not as conveniently as on a flatbed machine.

A lot of new sewers ask similar questions as you asked. They are looking for one machine that sews from very thin to very thick leather and handles thread sizes from garment weight to hand sewing weight. There was one machine I know of that claimed to do all that, but it is long gone. Even if one found that machine, parts would be made of unobtanium. You will have to make a decision to purchase a standard size walking foot machine for lighter weight projects that are fine with thinner thread up to #138 and another one for thick and hard leather and heavy thread (e.g., 207,  277, 346).

BTW: The thread used in these machines is either bonded nylon or bonded polyester. Hand sewing thread does not work in modern industrial sewing machines as it clogs the eye of the needle and is too thick to be tensioned and cannot go around most of the shuttles in common use.

 

For the thinner stuff I'm looking at, would something along the lines of a singer 111 do the trick? Then I would need to get the cowboy 3200... or is the 3200 not going to handle the heavier thread? Is there a good guide to how the thread is sized? It looks like the bigger the number, the fatter the thread is? Whats the second number you are referencing? #277 (~#44)? I am assuming that there is an older or european measuring system and a modern/standardized one, or is it different for hand stitching vs machine?

 

Thanks everyone for the helpful responses!!

[Wizcrafts]

14 minutes ago, Donkeykong said:

For the thinner stuff I'm looking at, would something along the lines of a singer 111 do the trick? Then I would need to get the cowboy 3200... or is the 3200 not going to handle the heavier thread? Is there a good guide to how the thread is sized? It looks like the bigger the number, the fatter the thread is? Whats the second number you are referencing? #277 (~#44)? I am assuming that there is an older or european measuring system and a modern/standardized one, or is it different for hand stitching vs machine?

Yes, a Singer 111, or clone will do just fine for thinner projects up to 3/8 inch of medium temper leather. I use these machines to hem things, to sew patches on the back of vests, to sew zippers into jackets, sew flat cases, wallets, upholstery, motorcycle seat tops, etc. The 3/8" isn't where they sew best, but how high they climb and still form a stitch. If you get into repairing jackets and vests, you will encounter seams that thick.

The CB3200 is a holster class machine that fills the gap between upholstery class and full harness/saddle class machines. It starts with #138 thread (22 pounds test) and goes up to #346 (~56 pounds test). It can sew from about 6 ounces up to 1/2 inch (32 ozs).

Here is a thread and needle chart that shows the diameter and number of cords in various sizes of thread we commonly encounter in leather work. The best needle sizes are also shown, as well as the breaking strengths.

The #277 (~#44) was meant to show the breaking strength in pounds (#) of size 277 thread.

[arashikage]

2 hours ago, Donkeykong said:

Wherein NE Ohio are you out of? You're right about both time/distances... I find myself in Toledo from time to time for work which is really nice... and even better is that I'm in a transit van with more than adequate cargo space This leather working community is super friendly/helpful. I think my next project will be a tool roll.... I'll make a point of posting it up here... planning on hand stitching, I think this will be this first "big" project that I'll be starting... the sewing machine is going to either be really high priority, or I'll see that I can work well without one. How do I get more info on the weaver event? It's certainly something I would like to attend... I see they have a store near Wooster? Is that Mount Hope? 

@Donkeykong I'm in Berea. 

Weaver doesn't tend to advertise the sale until it's closer. Even then it's not the best. But it will be June 17th & 18th, 2020. Wednesday they sell materials like leather, roping, webbing, etc. And Thursday is machines and hand tools. The sale is in the parking lot of the warehouse. The store is basically right beside it but the address to the store is Millersburg, I think. It's just outside of Wooster though.

[shoepatcher]

I got news for you.  The Weaver auction in 2020 will not be in June as it has been. Rather, the powers that be decided it would be better in December at the fairground facility which is close to the Weaver complex.  That's right, it will be in December, 2020.  This is a DISASTER waiting to happen. You will have an attendance less that half of normal because of the time of year and the weather.  Who wants to travel to Ohio in December?  Weather is so unpredictable that time of year and you have  Christmas and New Years to deal with.  Plus, a lot of people go in June to buy a years worth of supplies and leathers.  If those businesses are on a fiscal year, who would stock up with inventory less than a month form the end of the business year?   Inventory is taxable!!!  This is a big mistake.  I will not be going in December simply because of the weather.  Mark your calendar in 2020. 

[Donkeykong]

On 12/6/2019 at 6:04 PM, shoepatcher said:

I got news for you.  The Weaver auction in 2020 will not be in June as it has been. Rather, the powers that be decided it would be better in December at the fairground facility which is close to the Weaver complex.  That's right, it will be in December, 2020.  This is a DISASTER waiting to happen. You will have an attendance less that half of normal because of the time of year and the weather.  Who wants to travel to Ohio in December?  Weather is so unpredictable that time of year and you have  Christmas and New Years to deal with.  Plus, a lot of people go in June to buy a years worth of supplies and leathers.  If those businesses are on a fiscal year, who would stock up with inventory less than a month form the end of the business year?   Inventory is taxable!!!  This is a big mistake.  I will not be going in December simply because of the weather.  Mark your calendar in 2020. 

That’s sad news. Honestly though, it’s December here in Ohio & there has only been one bad evening so far in regards to the roads.... and I live in the snow belt where millersburg is far enough south they don’t get the lake effect... 

 

In other news/comments... I got to spend a load of time hand stitching this weekend... tried a few different techniques & finally figured out how to get consistent good looking threads on the back & front using the “two needle method” (is this a saddle stitch?)... I found that I need to hold the thread on the top to the same side when I come around with the next needle and the /////// look appears on both the front & the back and looks really nice. I still need to sew a buckle/strap on, but I’ll be starting a new thread once I get there. 

On 12/5/2019 at 2:35 PM, arashikage said:

@Donkeykong I'm in Berea. 

Weaver doesn't tend to advertise the sale until it's closer. Even then it's not the best. But it will be June 17th & 18th, 2020. Wednesday they sell materials like leather, roping, webbing, etc. And Thursday is machines and hand tools. The sale is in the parking lot of the warehouse. The store is basically right beside it but the address to the store is Millersburg, I think. It's just outside of Wooster though.

I’ve been working in/out of Berea a lot lately. One of our bigger customers are moving from W25 to Bagley Road... which puts me really close to Tandy’s location.... 

[dikman]

Donkeykong, yes, that is a saddlestitch, and like most things there is more than one way of doing it regarding where the threads come out each side. If you've figured out what works for you then .