Hand quality stitching on a machine

[sbrownn]

I have been trying to come up with a process that would allow me to machine stitch with a result that comes closer to duplicating the appearance of hand stitching.  One of the issues with a machine stitching is the appearance of the backside stitch; it is difficult to repair the damage that the needle does to the backside in the process of going through.  Once the stitch has been made, the backside appearance can be improved with the use of an overstitch wheel or by hammering down but these are time consuming too.  First of all, if you are trying to make a nice machine made backside stitch, start with some sort of needle and awl machine.  Not necessarily because they do a better job, because if improperly set up they don't, but because you have more variables to tweak.  On a Campbell-Randall, which is what I am using, you can mess with the needle and awl sizes, the top and bottom thread tensions and the knot position.  Almost all needle and awl sewing calls for a awl that is sized larger than the needle and the problem with this is that the needle is too small to repair the damage caused by the awl.  What I really want is a needle that is big enough to turn back in the "blow out" that results from the awl punching through the backside and still make a hole big enough for the knot.  First and foremost, make sure that both the needle and awl are sharp.  I hone my awl just like a knife blade so when it pushes through it cuts instead of breaks the leather fibers.  My current process consists of a needle that is one size larger than the awl and pre punching the stitch holes with a pricking iron.  When you use a pricking iron you are usually punching down on a pad and the presence of the pad helps to minimize tear out from the pricking iron.  I use an awl that is a little smaller that the pricking iron but angled to match it and a needle that is bigger.  The pricking iron has already created a hole large enough for the knot and the needle is large enough to fold back the edges of the hole the pricking iron has made.  If the machine weren't awl feed, I could probably get rid of the awl completely but by undersizing the awl I can minimize the damage it does to the backside.  

I realize that this process is not as efficient as machine stitching and I wouldn't use it on something like the stitching on the edge of a belt but I would use it stitching the edge of a wallet or any other place where I wanted to show off the stitching but didn't want to spend the time doing it by hand.    

Can you please move this post to a more appropriate forum?

[chuck123wapati]

That sounds like a great experiment indeed but your wallets will still be machine sewn so showing them off as handsewn? I guess I don't get it, machine stitching looks ok, it is what it is.

[Bert51]

When I first got my Adler 105-6, the needle plate had been rebuilt by the previous owner and had a rather larger hole in the plate and I was not happy with the way the back looked. I found another needle plate on ebay for a Singer 45 with a smaller hole and found it looked some what better on the underside.

I had a friend weld the hole up and re drill it with a smaller hole, but I made it to small, re drilled it a little larger and and although it did not look like hand stitching, it did look a lot better then it did.

If you are using needle on the smaller side try using a needle plate with a smaller hole.

Bert.

[Northmount]

On 1/24/2020 at 3:27 PM, sbrownn said:

Can you please move this post to a more appropriate forum?

Moved to leather sewing machines

Tom

[dikman]

I've been pondering this, and the main issue is the "punch-through" that occurs on the backside of the leather. So, use the machine, with no thread, to pre-punch the stitch holes. Then flip the work piece and do the same thing from the backside, into the same holes. This should even out the "punch-through" and by then when it's run through the machine again, with thread, it should be better on the back (hopefully).

Personally, if I want something to look hand stitched then I'll hand stitch it.

[Wizcrafts]

The best bottom appearance I ever had on a sewing machine was on Union Lockstitch machines using a special narrow slotted throat plate and a 1/2 size difference between the needle and awl. I believe this was doable up to needle size 3.5. Beyond that you have to do full size differences and the slots have to be wider. It is tricky to get the needle perfectly positioned in two planes with only a half size larger awl.

[sbrownn]

On 1/25/2020 at 6:52 AM, chuck123wapati said:

That sounds like a great experiment indeed but your wallets will still be machine sewn so showing them off as handsewn? I guess I don't get it, machine stitching looks ok, it is what it is.

Not selling them as handsewn.  That would be dishonest.  Selling based on quality.  IMHO most machine stitching doesn't look okay on the backside.

[sbrownn]

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

The best bottom appearance I ever had on a sewing machine was on Union Lockstitch machines using a special narrow slotted throat plate and a 1/2 size difference between the needle and awl. I believe this was doable up to needle size 3.5. Beyond that you have to do full size differences and the slots have to be wider. It is tricky to get the needle perfectly positioned in two planes with only a half size larger awl.

I have tried some 3D printed throat plates tailored to both awl width and stitch length but they didn't seem to make much difference on tear out.  Right now I am using a 0-1/2 awl and a 1 needle on pre pricked holes and it looks pretty good.  Not as good as expert hand stitching but better than my hand stitching.  My needle and awl are not perfectly positioned because I can't seem to move the head enough to accomplish it.  They are close though and the pre pricked holes minimize the problem.  I will post a couple of pictures.

Thanks, as always, for your expert comment.

[sbrownn]

14 hours ago, dikman said:

I've been pondering this, and the main issue is the "punch-through" that occurs on the backside of the leather. So, use the machine, with no thread, to pre-punch the stitch holes. Then flip the work piece and do the same thing from the backside, into the same holes. This should even out the "punch-through" and by then when it's run through the machine again, with thread, it should be better on the back (hopefully).

Personally, if I want something to look hand stitched then I'll hand stitch it.

It's probably not any faster to use the machine and I have found the pricking iron to be more exact than my machine as far as stitch spacing.  I think that once you "blow out" the backside it is difficult to fix.  The pricking irons, because they are bottoming on some sort of pricking pad, do not blow out the backside and neither does the awl that is smaller than both the needle and the pricking iron tooth.  

Work in progress but the results are promising.  Did I mention that I like running the machine but dislike hand stitching? 

18 hours ago, Northmount said:

Moved to leather sewing machines

Tom

Thank you Tom.

[sbrownn]

21 hours ago, Bert51 said:

When I first got my Adler 105-6, the needle plate had been rebuilt by the previous owner and had a rather larger hole in the plate and I was not happy with the way the back looked. I found another needle plate on ebay for a Singer 45 with a smaller hole and found it looked some what better on the underside.

I had a friend weld the hole up and re drill it with a smaller hole, but I made it to small, re drilled it a little larger and and although it did not look like hand stitching, it did look a lot better then it did.

If you are using needle on the smaller side try using a needle plate with a smaller hole.

Bert.

The problem is that on most heavy leather machines the feed is assisted by either the needle or, if a needle and awl machine, the awl.  This requires a slotted plate, not a plate with just a hole.  I couldn't tell about the 105-6 but it looks like a wonderful machine and if anyone wants to sell one I'm in the market.