Permanant sales shop (do you have your buisness locally?)

[Ragingstallion]

A thought crossed my mind, as I am sure a lot of you have thought about setting up a shop and just doing nothing but work with leather and sell your products and living off your hobby. I was curious how many of you have an actual shop set up in your area that customers can come in and see your work?

besides for Tandy's, I have only seen two shops around, one only lasted for about four months, and the other, they seem to never really be open. But with getting some new land near a small town, was day dreaming of the possibility of starting up a small sales/workshop.

If you have done this, lets see those pictures of your area. if you have just thought about it, keep dreaming, maybe some of us will actually do it in our life.

but as for the rest, what do you think the pro's and cons are of doing this? I know, I know, the internet is where it is at. but I am one of those people that likes to feel and see in person things that im going to buy, so its a huge plus to have shops like this pop up.

[RockyAussie]

1 hour ago, Ragingstallion said:

and the other, they seem to never really be open

They are probably trying to get their work done. It is difficult to find time to serve customers and design and make and deal with all of the other things that business let alone personal needs require you to do. I don't think the internet is as you say "where it is at" but having a web page of your products can be like having a catalogue that can show off your wares and save a little time before they show up or occasionally order online. I am 20 minutes out of town and have no advertising signs here and nor do I advertise in any local way yet I still get people track me down too regularly. Speaking for myself I would be embarrassed to say how long it takes for me to get to any special customer orders and nearly as much time is spent talking about a product as the time to make it. When I had a shop in town and sold leather craft gear and tools it generally cost me more in labour than the sales ever made. Nowdays 95% of the work I do is contact making for a few brands that do their own advertising and marketing. This is my place in the picture below.

[fredk]

I've dreamt of it. Even found a few places which would have been my ideal, they are old Georgian shops, very Dickensian. Also looked at more modern small shop units. But I'd need to sell about £1000 per week to afford any of them, and thats before I took any wages.

Any saddlers I knew worked in old converted stables at a riding school. Some even had places in several riding schools and spent a month or so in each. They sold new saddles and tack through the riding school tack shop.

There is a tack shop in a town near me but its been closed up for about 10 years. All the tack and outdoor clothing still in there. They used to have a leatherworker who worked their about 4 days per week, on and off. Casual enquires seem to indicate he died.

[fredk]

I'll add, what Rocky says about time to do work vrs dealing with customers.

I've been asked (too frequently) to make leather 'life style' items - you know what I mean. I don't make that stuff and never will so I refuse. Here in the UK if I was a proper business I cannot refuse to do so, It is illegal*. I've been threatened with court action but because I'm only a 'hobbyist' the legal action fell at the first hurdle. Thus I'm safer not having a shop.

* In the UK it is illegal to refuse to supply or make anything for anyone based on their colour, ethinicity, disablement or sexuality - even if I tell them I don't make that item its seen as a refusal

[sinpac]

Like Fred I am a hobbist. I have no desire to open a shop as long as I sell enough to buy my supplies and a few bucks(well a little more then a few bucks) in my pocket, I am good. Like in the U.K. I fear here in the U.S.A this is starting to gain traction. I will not make or design anything I don't want too.

[Handstitched]

G'Day, I do have a small business and I work from home ( I do markets as well)  , both leather & horse rug repairs .The only down side is that I don't  always have enough time to make stuff for myself, I'm mostly filling orders.   I'm just a short drive from the town   and even without any advertising, my customers still find me  quite easily, word of mouth works best for me that and the  markets . I had thought about having a shop in the town  but all the shops in our town are over 100 years old  and not worth the rent they are asking. And besides, even when no business is coming through the doors you still have to pay the rent and all other expenses .  So many '"businesses" have come & gone over the years .  They may last a year at best. ( except the bakery that does lovely hot meat  pies) 

 

HS

[chiefjason]

Does my garage count?  I have locals coming by semi regularly to talk to me or see what I do and place an order.  About half of them are folks that I know already though.  Would I like to do this full time?  Sure.  But the thoughts of having to quadruple my income at this is a bit daunting to say the least.  It would take at least that to replace most of my real job income and some of the benefits.  It might even take more than that.  Not sure I could push it that far.  And it's too much of a risk with a family and I'm the sole income already.  

[chuck123wapati]

On 1/26/2020 at 4:03 PM, Ragingstallion said:

A thought crossed my mind, as I am sure a lot of you have thought about setting up a shop and just doing nothing but work with leather and sell your products and living off your hobby. I was curious how many of you have an actual shop set up in your area that customers can come in and see your work?

besides for Tandy's, I have only seen two shops around, one only lasted for about four months, and the other, they seem to never really be open. But with getting some new land near a small town, was day dreaming of the possibility of starting up a small sales/workshop.

If you have done this, lets see those pictures of your area. if you have just thought about it, keep dreaming, maybe some of us will actually do it in our life.

but as for the rest, what do you think the pro's and cons are of doing this? I know, I know, the internet is where it is at. but I am one of those people that likes to feel and see in person things that im going to buy, so its a huge plus to have shops like this pop up.

In my town two things hamper this, rent is friggin crazy for a business 2 k a month+ and just to small of town. Right now most of my work comes from word of mouth, FB, or online. I do plan on expanding this year as my kids are now old enough to help but the storefront is still a no go, most will be going north to the touristy folk in consignment shops and such my basement gets an overhaul for leather and my garage for knives lol.

[JLSleather]

I do not have a shop, and tomorrow I'm going to not have one again.  For what a lease would cost here, you could BUILD, and then they'd kick your teeth in on the property tax

But I have more than enough "down time" just talking to people on the phone, without people coming in to hang out.  And they do - if you've ever been in any store you know that they do.  Don't even really do "shows".  I did set up at one about this time last year - again lots of "lookers".. and a few fellas that would have bought IF I had a holster for their model ready to go.  Basically curbed that a few years back - more time and trouble than it's worth.  A weekend show means 30-40 hours of NOT making goods.

As for refusing orders, it's my party and I'll snub who I want to.  Wife says "you can't just make what YOU want to make".. but she's been barking that for well over a decade

I have business cards and a phone.  Pics on the web site and IG.  If somebody wants to see something, I can make that happen, but just too many issues to have people coming in just to "look".

[Handstitched]

One advantage I have is that my business / workshop is on my property ( approved by the local council ), I work from home,  theres no rent and no  mortgage   .And its taken years to develop the goodwill from the locals , you can't buy that. No fancy advertising, just word-of-mouth, and its worked.    My workshop isn't a 'shop shop', like a shop front  .And like you, I wouldn't have time to just chat  all day ( although my Mum would  ha !!  I've nick named her ' Pringles' because ' once she pops she can't stop'   shhhh   )   

Anyway....

My market stall is my "shop front'" at regular venues where orders are placed,  sell stock, and its a chance to show off my wares  a bit .  I have picked & chosen which ones are worth while and financially viable . 

HS 

[Bayou Bengal]

I work out of my garage. The whole space, minus 4 shelves in the storage room and a freezer, has been turned into a workshop. People always call and want to come by, and I have to set appointments. I’ve thought about setting up a shop, with a register and some stock items to display and sell; BUT, I don’t feel like I’d make it big. A lot of the time I get the “I can get this/that on Amazon for $10, why would I give you $30?” Most people want it now. So even if I didn’t have orders backed up 2-3 weeks, I still feel like the price for quality would shun most people in my area away. I do enough business where if someone says something costs too much or takes too long, it doesn’t hurt my feelings. 
 

What I HAVE thought about, also, is selling my wares, and then selling kits and leather bundles. The closest Tandy is almost 3 hours away. I do make a pretty good bit on scraps and useless (to me) leather. Lotta folk wanna buy leather that’s sub-par (to me) to try their hand at leather crafting.

interesting topic. 

[JLSleather]

Oh, and don't forget... NEVER FORGET... LIABILITY.  EVERYBODY wants to sue SOMEBODY.  And it doesn't' take much.  If you have space "accessible to the public" you got an issue.  And if you have a business, people in general will auto assume that you have vast piles of stored money - thus you are a target for this (excessive and sometimes ridiculous) litigation.

Up here we got the obvious... somebody slipped on the ice on your sidewalk ("path" for you european folk) -- now you're in court "proving" that you did everything reasonable and slightly beyond to prevent that from happening.  

Somebody will say "that's why you have insurance"... which is correct.  But as soon as you "hang a shingle" your insurance just got WAY different - that's my point.

And then you have that one (or 10) who doesn't think anybody should have guns, thus no need for holsters, so they're "browsing" your store for ways to wreak havoc.  That guy who likes to be called "she" will be there to swear you discriminated somehow and people who have never been here before will be standing there trying to "return" something.

And if by some series of events you get big eniough you need some employees.. ughhhh don't even get me started on employees ....  still have flashbacks.... 

Edited February 9, 2020 by JLSleather

[mikesc]

No public allowed ..atelier is attached to the house..( had retail shops and ateliers before..PITA )..now..since 10 years or more..online sales and some limited wholesale only.
Design work..meetings ( I don't like meetings, or consults..so charge very highly for them per hour, so as to dissuade them ) at their premises or external venues only..or via internet and or phones.

All any of us has ultimately is time..many customers like to waste it..if you give them the opportunity..so I don't give them that opportunity..

No market stalls, Ren fairs etc..last market was St Tropez over 25 years ago.., decided to wholesale to the luxury shops on St Tropez instead..cut out the potential time wasters..get paid COD..no cash..no product..

Nowadays..if the computer behind me ( which is reserved only for notifying of sales ) "rings" a sale ( someone's credit card got authorised on a site ) ..then the item is sent..They can spend as long as they want "thinking about it"..before they authorise their card..While they are doing that..I don't know that they exist, nor do I have to..I can be on the beach, or asleep, or working, or painting, sculpting or reading a book, watching the clouds etc..

We have liability insurance ( obligatory) ..but no one ever gets near enough for it to be activated.

And if by some series of events you get big enough you need some employees.. ughhhh don't even get me started on employees .... still have flashbacks

Yep..been there..headaches just wondering what they might do or not do ..so haven't had any for 25 years now.

Edited February 9, 2020 by mikesc

[Handstitched]

44 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

Oh, and don't forget... NEVER FORGET... LIABILITY.  EVERYBODY wants to sue SOMEBODY.

Its not that bad here, its not ' Sue City'    Anyone thats comes through our gate might....get bitten by an ant at best or step on a 'double gee'  at worst  ( google that) '  or ....break a nail on the gate latch   My customers come here to make inquiries, or to pick up or drop off jobs to be done. I'm not permitted to have a 'shop front' , but thats a blessing .  However, in saying that, I did feel discriminated against by a wholesaler  in NSW , because I didn't have  a 'shop front'  , their loss though   ,  because I found another wholesaler that doesn't discriminate .  

HS

[chuck123wapati]

9 hours ago, JLSleather said:

Oh, and don't forget... NEVER FORGET... LIABILITY.  EVERYBODY wants to sue SOMEBODY.  And it doesn't' take much.  If you have space "accessible to the public" you got an issue.  And if you have a business, people in general will auto assume that you have vast piles of stored money - thus you are a target for this (excessive and sometimes ridiculous) litigation.

Up here we got the obvious... somebody slipped on the ice on your sidewalk ("path" for you european folk) -- now you're in court "proving" that you did everything reasonable and slightly beyond to prevent that from happening.  

Somebody will say "that's why you have insurance"... which is correct.  But as soon as you "hang a shingle" your insurance just got WAY different - that's my point.

And then you have that one (or 10) who doesn't think anybody should have guns, thus no need for holsters, so they're "browsing" your store for ways to wreak havoc.  That guy who likes to be called "she" will be there to swear you discriminated somehow and people who have never been here before will be standing there trying to "return" something.

And if by some series of events you get big eniough you need some employees.. ughhhh don't even get me started on employees ....  still have flashbacks.... 

ditto and if your by yourself some will steal you blind while your back is turned.

[topazann]

Not enough to support myself, but it pays for something I like to do. It also prevents my building up a pile of projects in the corner gathering dust.
I place goods in an artisan store. This is covers for planners, wedding invitations, etc. It gets me commissions.

[Mark842]

Yep, what Mike said. I have a shop but no retail store front. No signs, no nothing. We do zero face to face dealings with customers. I did that before in the past. Had 2-4 hours a day wasted by people asking stupid questions, telling me I'm over priced, giving me product suggestions, and thinking I want to spend 30 minutes talking about their awesome motorcycle rides while I have a six month back up on custom orders. 

I'm too busy making product to have to stand around and answer silly questions. We do business online only. Every great once in awhile someone will find my phone number and call saying they want to talk to me about ordering a custom leather dohickey. I text them back at the end of the day when I'm done filling orders and give them my email address and explain that we do not accept orders by phone. Reason for this is in 30 years of making stuff, I've never had one person be able to explain a picture over the phone. I also explain that we like to have the details written down so we both have a record of all the details. I know this turns a lot of potential customers off but that is fine. From March to October we have a 3 person shop pulling 14 hour days 6 days a week and 3 contract jobbers used as needed. After October we stop taking new orders till March and just try to play catch up.

[Brianm77]

On 1/26/2020 at 6:35 PM, fredk said:

 

* In the UK it is illegal to refuse to supply or make anything for anyone based on their colour, ethinicity, disablement or sexuality - even if I tell them I don't make that item its seen as a refusal

could you not simply say I don't know how?

[Handstitched]

On 1/27/2020 at 8:35 AM, fredk said:

I've been asked (too frequently) to make leather 'life style' items - you know what I mean

I too was asked if I was interested in making some of that....' stuff'  a long time ago. I flat out said "nope!! and never will."   The response I got was " but  you'll make a killing!! "  That maybe the case , but I do live in a small country town with around 1700 people,around half of which are elderly and   where everyone knows everyone...and everything.   Reputation is everything in business . Hate to think what would happen to mine if I started making that  ' stuff' .

HS 

[Mark842]

* In the UK it is illegal to refuse to supply or make anything for anyone based on their colour, ethinicity, disablement or sexuality - even if I tell them I don't make that item its seen as a refusal

 

That's ridiculous. How could they force you to make a product you don't currently make? I can see if you have a table full of widget arms sitting in front of you and they want a widget arm and you tell them you don't have any. But if someone walks into my shop and asks me to make them a saddle, it ain't happening. I never have  and don't know how. Can't see how they can say that is refusal of service.

[kiwican]

On 1/26/2020 at 7:35 PM, fredk said:

I'll add, what Rocky says about time to do work vrs dealing with customers.

I've been asked (too frequently) to make leather 'life style' items - you know what I mean. I don't make that stuff and never will so I refuse. Here in the UK if I was a proper business I cannot refuse to do so, It is illegal*. I've been threatened with court action but because I'm only a 'hobbyist' the legal action fell at the first hurdle. Thus I'm safer not having a shop.

* In the UK it is illegal to refuse to supply or make anything for anyone based on their colour, ethinicity, disablement or sexuality - even if I tell them I don't make that item its seen as a refusal

That's insane! 

[fredk]

To cover some of the above. A true story event from a few years back.

A customer goes into a Home Bakery and asks for an iced fruit cake to be made. The bakery refuses. Customer goes to a government body called Equal Rights Commission who takes up his case and takes said bakery to court. Bakery looses case. Bakery takes appeals through several courts until they win. Cost to small bakery, in excess of £70,000, cost to 'customer' is a big fat 0.

Home Bakery, has a shop front and bakes all their goods on the premises. They also supply other bakery shops. They make only bread,  just bread,  loaves, fruit loaves,  plain loaves, bread baps (burger buns to you lot), they do not make buns or cakes. That is why they refused to make the 'customer' a cake. They told the 'customer' this, they told the ERC, they told the court this but still they lost on 'discrimination' . The matter was pushed not on what the bakery makes or did not make, but on their refusal to supply someone based on the 'customer' being of one of the groups I mentioned, even though the refusal was not.

There was a second cake case recently which cost a bakery £185,000 in costs and the 'customer' 0. Although its been revealed that the ERC lost about £280,000 in costs - so far, as they re taking the case to the European Courts. But this stage won't involve the bakery. In this case the bakery is a well known and liked family bakery and friends raised donations to pay their costs. The amount raised was £195,000. Without this the bakery owners would not only have had to close their two shops, making about 20 workers unemployed but they would have had to sell their home. This cake case is far more complicated but involves the same principles. 

[Handstitched]

 I know laws are different in each country, but thats just  bat s**t crazy .  Thats like someone asking me to make a saddle, and I refuse, because I don't make saddles , ( I really don't) , but I get taken to court anyway?  WTF...?? 

So I guess that bakery would have  stepped up their advertising, 

 "WE DO NOT MAKE ICED FRUIT CAKES "  We make bread and just bread....got it ?? "  

We all know our own skill levels, and we all know what we like to make....and what not to make . 

This craziness  is something that would sit comfortably in "The Dept. of Works"  in the  movie " Brazil"  .  But this ' craziness' played out here in Oz a while back over the use of the word " Ugg" ( as in Ugg Boots) , but thats another story.

And I still won't make any of that ....'stuff'   

HS

[Bert51]

Sadly I agree with you.

Me thinks I'm sane, as are people on this forum.

But starting to wonder about the rest.

Bert.

[fredk]

1 hour ago, Handstitched said:

 So I guess that bakery would have  stepped up their advertising, 

 "WE DO NOT MAKE ICED FRUIT CAKES "  We make bread and just bread....got it ?? "  

No, not really. They had already been known as the bread bakery, they promoted themselves as the bread bakery, 'we are the best bread makers as thats all we make. No cakes, no buns, no French Fancies, just the best bread in Ulster' sort of thing. Thats why a lot of us went wtf when we heard of the court case.

This has been a deviation off the main subject so to get back on it: I mentioned 'shop front' to a few friends who had shops but shut them up. Actually being taken to court or threatened with it was a major factor in their shut down of their main shop, to continue their profession as a 'hobbyist' or part-timer from home,  not directly affected by those laws.

Edited March 1, 2020 by fredk