Awl makers

[Kolton45]

I'd like to purchase an awl for hand stitching and I'm looking for recommendation on makers and sizing I have never used one before so it's all new to me but I'm the kind of guy that would rather buy one quality tool vs 5 cheap tools 

[Rhale]

I use a Barry King with a #2 blade,  several different blade sizes are available along with different size haft.  Hope this helps. Rodney 

[Old Coach Saddlery]

I have CS Osborne and Barry King. I like the Barry King the best.

[Spyros]

I've made about a million awls (feels like), but they all have simple tips and are mainly used for woodorking, marking, scratching, making small holes to guide the drill bit, that sort of thing. 

What's special about a stitching awl?  Is it that it's supposed to have the same shape as the pricking iron blade, is that it?   Come to think of it I don't think I've ever actually seen one in person. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Spyros

[paloma]

nothing to see between a woodworking tool and a awl specially designed for working with leather.the ones I use are rolls royce and pierce the leather like a feather through the air.

google Jerome David

https://goopics.net/a/Xd1zFa1C

Edited June 5, 2020 by paloma

[Spyros]

9 minutes ago, paloma said:

nothing to see between a woodworking tool and a awl specially designed for working with leather.the ones I use are rolls royce and pierce the leather like a feather through the air.

google Jerome David

https://goopics.net/a/Xd1zFa1C

Yeah I mean if it's something you use every day it makes sense to get the best you can.  But what makes a top quality one, is it the sharpness of the blade?  I would've thought you don't want it to be too sharp because there are human fingers on the other side LOL 

(I don't know, i've never actually stitched with an awl before)

 Also what is the torx screw on the back for?  The one on the ferrule must be for changing blades, but the other one?

[paloma]

one to change the inclination of the blade and the other at the bottom to change the blade.

or the other way round...

Edited June 5, 2020 by paloma

[mike02130]

I have a Barry King awl which I am pretty disappointed with.  I have other BK tools which are great.  Maybe it was a one off?  It was so over polished that it lost its diamond shape.  The spine is gone and the grind is uneven.  It has quite the taper and in order for me to use it effectively I must pierce the leather and bottom the awl out rather than going a little bit in with my Vergez Blanchard.  You can see the difference in the picture.  The VB awl is not polished and does take a bit of work to get it there.  As a tool user I don't mind the polishing.  I am more bonded with the V.B..  When using KS Blades 3.85 irons and a small John James needle with .6 mm tiger thread or .55 mm Twisty (RML) the BK awl is useless.  I own and like BK tools, its just that the awl I received sucked.  Yes, I could've sent it back but I did not.

Left is Vergez.

 

  

[Matt S]

1 hour ago, Spyros said:

Yeah I mean if it's something you use every day it makes sense to get the best you can.  But what makes a top quality one, is it the sharpness of the blade?  I would've thought you don't want it to be too sharp because there are human fingers on the other side

A good stitching awl blade has a diamond cross section, a pear shaped or reverse hourglass profile (starts narrow, swells to a wide waist then tapers off again towards the handle), and is sharpened like a dagger -- that is to say the two furthest apart edges are the cutting edges and the tip shouldn't be too sharp or pointy. The two cutting edges need to be as sharp as possible (preferably sharp enough so you can use it like a knife to cut into leather without it making a noise) and the whole polished to a mirror finish and burr-free. The steel needs to be a composition and temper hard enough to hold a cutting edge for a long time but soft enough to sharpen with normal whetstones and springy enough to not permanently bend or break when deflected or pushed at a cocked angle. That's a very tall order in such a tiny piece of steel, which is why most good quality awls need a lot of work finishing off when you get them, and why "good to go" awls are so expensive.

You definitely do want a stitching awl as sharp as you can because it's there to cut a slit through the leather and temporarily wedge that slit open. Leather is tougher than your fingertips -- bloodletting is simply an occupational hazard! As someone has put it before on this forum an awl should be sharp enough you can jab your finger and not realise it until you pull it out and the claret starts flowing. Over time you learn accuracy of angle and can place your supporting fingertips closer to where the awl might poke through without risk of losing any haemoglobin but when you start out using a cork to support the backside of the leather is quite useful. Unfortunately it's a more complex and very fiddly sort of sharp compared with most edge tools. I've been sharpening chisels and knives since I was tall enough to see over the edge of my grandad's bench but still don't think I've cracked sharpening a stitching awl. Nigel Armitage, who's a classically trained saddler, leatherwork instructor, and has sharpened more awls that I've had hot dinners, takes an hour to bring an awl up from "new" to "usable".

Handles/hafts are a matter of personal taste. I like them without a flare at the base so I can get my forearm inline with the blade and some sort of flat on the handle so I can index the rotational angle of the blade by touch rather than having to look at it every time. I also tend to put a few turns of amalgamating tape round the ferrule, which helps pull a reluctant needle without putting the awl down.

[Spyros]

Thanks Matt.  Yeah handles are not an issue, I'm a woodworker, I know it's a matter of seconds to bring it to the exact shape anyone might want, and even the most exotic wood for something this small is probably gonna set you back $5 once you have your supply chain sorted (ie you don't buy from etsy/ebay)

But the blade sounds like a royal PITB.  Again not so much making it, from what you're telling me it's probably just $0.10 worth of 01 tool steel, shaped while it's soft, then hardened and tempered, and it's so small you can probably do the heat treatment in your kitchen with a propane torch and half a glass of vegetable oil.   But sharpening it, yeahh... nah.  Just too easy to grind through the diamond shape edges and end up with a very pretty dart LOL

[paloma]

Yes, I also think, that said, with a bit of experience, a good stone, I think you could manage to give it back its original shape, but I repeat, a lot of patience and regularity in the gesture.

[Matt S]

20 hours ago, Spyros said:

Thanks Matt.  Yeah handles are not an issue, I'm a woodworker, I know it's a matter of seconds to bring it to the exact shape anyone might want, and even the most exotic wood for something this small is probably gonna set you back $5 once you have your supply chain sorted (ie you don't buy from etsy/ebay)

But the blade sounds like a royal PITB.  Again not so much making it, from what you're telling me it's probably just $0.10 worth of 01 tool steel, shaped while it's soft, then hardened and tempered, and it's so small you can probably do the heat treatment in your kitchen with a propane torch and half a glass of vegetable oil.   But sharpening it, yeahh... nah.  Just too easy to grind through the diamond shape edges and end up with a very pretty dart LOL

As you say the material and 90% of the work isn't the issue, so much as the finishing which has to be done by hand. Part of the issue is that awl blades are quite flexible so have to be backed up with something like a finger -- fine on a bench stone, not so ideal on a belt or wheel! Even polishing by machine can be very easy to mess up, as most polishing wheels tend to round over the edge when you put it across the blade. I have a drawer full of "pretty darts" to demonstrate that! 

I've recently acquired a Tormek machine, maybe I'll try that on a raw awl somewhen. Certainly works well on punches and knives.

You can certainly stitch with a less-than-ideal awl, especially if you use a stitching chisel (Which punches through the leather) rather than a pricking iron (which tends to not pierce all the way through). However it makes things a LOT faster/easier/neater/less frustrating.

[Spyros]

40 minutes ago, Matt S said:

As you say the material and 90% of the work isn't the issue, so much as the finishing which has to be done by hand. Part of the issue is that awl blades are quite flexible so have to be backed up with something like a finger -- fine on a bench stone, not so ideal on a belt or wheel! Even polishing by machine can be very easy to mess up, as most polishing wheels tend to round over the edge when you put it across the blade. I have a drawer full of "pretty darts" to demonstrate that! 

I've recently acquired a Tormek machine, maybe I'll try that on a raw awl somewhen. Certainly works well on punches and knives.

You can certainly stitch with a less-than-ideal awl, especially if you use a stitching chisel (Which punches through the leather) rather than a pricking iron (which tends to not pierce all the way through). However it makes things a LOT faster/easier/neater/less frustrating.

Ooooh a Tormek, nice!  I was about to pull the trigger on one and the only reason I haven't yet is those cheap knock offs that came out recently and people say they're decent.   I'm waiting for my friend to show me his to see if it does the trick for me, it could save me $500.  They say the main problem with the cheap ones is the axle, it gets corroded quickly but parts are also cheap to replace compared to Tormek, and it still has the same bar and you can mount original Tormek jigs and stones.  Some guy I know who sharpens professionally added a cheap one next to his Tormek for a different grit stone.  We'll see.  I'd love a Tormek but I also need the budget to build up my leather tools.  

Last night I went ahead and ordered a KS stitching chisel set, 2 and 10 prong.  It was pricey but I think working without a stitching awl is probably more suited to my non existent skills LOL

Edited June 6, 2020 by Spyros

[Spyros]

double post, sorry

Edited June 6, 2020 by Spyros

[Tugadude]

I read through this thread and saw a lot of good points.  One thing that can get lost in the shuffle is that the awl blade need only be sharp at the tip.  The rest of the length is polished smooth.  You want to pierce the leather then let the width of the blade stretch or expand the slit temporarily.  If it is sharpened too far down the length of the metal then it slices too big of a hole.  

The idea is to pierce, then expand the slit so the needle and thread can go through easily.  Afterwards, the leather naturally begins to contract and upon finishing the stitching, a few taps with a smooth hammer helps close up the holes further and flatten the thread, further filling the holes.

Having too big of a hole is a detriment both aesthetically and functionally.  It can lead to weakening of the leather and is undesirable.

 

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

Absolutely what Tugadude said!!

[chuck123wapati]

I agree with Tugadude also and adding my two cents to the conversation get your self a good set of hands free magnifying glasses so you don't jack up your new awl when sharpening it. 

[paloma]

2 hours ago, Tugadude said:

I read through this thread and saw a lot of good points.  One thing that can get lost in the shuffle is that the awl blade need only be sharp at the tip.  The rest of the length is polished smooth.  You want to pierce the leather then let the width of the blade stretch or expand the slit temporarily.  If it is sharpened too far down the length of the metal then it slices too big of a hole.  

The idea is to pierce, then expand the slit so the needle and thread can go through easily.  Afterwards, the leather naturally begins to contract and upon finishing the stitching, a few taps with a smooth hammer helps close up the holes further and flatten the thread, further filling the holes.

Having too big of a hole is a detriment both aesthetically and functionally.  It can lead to weakening of the leather and is undesirable.

 

really true!

[Retswerb]

On 6/5/2020 at 7:56 AM, Matt S said:

I also tend to put a few turns of amalgamating tape round the ferrule, which helps pull a reluctant needle without putting the awl down.

Had to look this one up (I know it as fusion tape) but that’s a good idea, I’ll have to try it.

[Matt S]

2 hours ago, Retswerb said:

Had to look this one up (I know it as fusion tape) but that’s a good idea, I’ll have to try it.

We truly are two nations divided by a common language! 

I'm sure you guys use the same stuff -- it's a silicone rubber tape that comes in rolls with a peel off layer between layers. Not sticky, just grabby, but magically it sticks and fuses to itself when you wrap something. Used in repairs a lot. You could get a similar effect with a bit of bicycle inner tube or if you make a few turns with some rubber bands but I'm sure you get the idea -- clamp the needle against the grippy stuff with your thumb and give it a tug.

[Retswerb]

22 hours ago, Matt S said:

We truly are two nations divided by a common language! 

I'm sure you guys use the same stuff -- it's a silicone rubber tape that comes in rolls with a peel off layer between layers. Not sticky, just grabby, but magically it sticks and fuses to itself when you wrap something. Used in repairs a lot. You could get a similar effect with a bit of bicycle inner tube or if you make a few turns with some rubber bands but I'm sure you get the idea -- clamp the needle against the grippy stuff with your thumb and give it a tug.

Yep, that’s the stuff. Also heard it called centerline tape as it usually has a guide stripe down the middle. It’s like magic for some repairs, I’ll bet it works great as you say for a little extra grip!

[BridleButt]

I remember reading about a guy who made his awl blades out of umbrella spokes and sandpaper. 

 

[FrenchMich]

More one with Paloma. Now, I only use Jérôme David awls.

He's a good friend of mine and he just live beside. If somebody is interested, I can send his Awl with verygood prices.

 

It's not necessary to add sharpening or polishing or any finishing. It's ready for utilisation. It just need to scrub some time on sharpening strop with lapping paste.

Mich'

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by FrenchMich

[paloma]

hi Mich'

it's a new line? new manufacture? I didn't know this striped version...

[HondoMan]

Like @mike02130 I prefer the blanchard.  They are consistent and affordable and the blades are hand forged and easily polished.  More importantly for me is the handle....tiny.  I don't want to pressure push the awl with me palm, but simply holding it with me fingers.