Really confused about glue

[ThoughtFission]

Hi,

There seems to be as many options as to what glue you should use for leather work as their are types of glue. Can anyone tell me what the right kind of glue is for making bags and wallets? PVA? Water based contact cement? Non water based contact cement? Something else? Thanks!

 

[Spyros]

Αnything you buy from a leathercaft shop will do and they're all pretty much the same.  

Water based is runny, barge stinks.  Pick your poison.

[mike02130]

Weldwood contact cement.  About 10 bucks a quart.  If I have a choice between water or solvent based I'll always choose solvent.  

[DJole]

One way to choose a glue might be drying time:
The water based glues take a lot longer to set. This may or may not be a problem. 
The Barge type of glues set quicker, and there is a "tacky" stage during which it is possible to pull the pieces apart, re-align them, and stick them back together.  I found a Barge cement which has a non-Toluene formula, so the toxicity is much lower.
I have recently discovered the wonders of double sided tape for doing small projects like wallets. It's excellent for holding the pieces together securely to make stitching holes and during stitching. The tape isn't meant to be a load-bearing, permanent bond.

[$$hobby]

welcome,

I noticed you are outside of the USA, so any leather craft place maybe hard to find.

but if you have any leather craft places where you live i would check there first.  Some may have some bonded leather samples just like they would with leather dyes.  

for what its worth, i prefer Barge Cement.  its is a contact cement.  If you have not worked with a contact cement,  you more or less apply a thin coat to both sides and let dry/get tacky and put the glued faces together.   Its more or less a 1 time shot.  So no do-overs.  If you do end up using it, i would have some practice pieces and see what you think.

I know you can buy a toothpaste size tube if you dont want to invest in a can if you are not sure.  But not sure if you can find it outside of the USA.  You can try Amazon.EU?

Barge is also smelly, so if you decide to  use it, i would use it in a well vented room or outside.

also for what its worth, for a wallet, i would be picky on whats used.  I had used some glue on a wallet and after a time, the glue failed but ended up gooey and if you can imagine it not staying put but creeping to where the notes were kept.  

[Hardrada]

I'd rather use contact cement. Haven't had good luck with water-based glue (Aquilim 315): over time it dries and the 'glued' parts come apart.

In France it wouldn't be difficult to buy some Renia Colle de Cologne: very good contact cement and you can use it to glue more than just leather: think about fabric for linings or plastic pieces.

I've seen some leatherworkers use Hirschkleber. Always wanted to try that one, but haven't had a chance to get ahold of some.

[Danne]

I personally use water based contact cement for almost everything, the only time I use a solvent based glue is when I glue synthetic reinforcement. And if I would use oily/waxy leather I would probably use solvent based glue or Aquilim 315 mixed with hardener.

I use

Water based: Renia Aquilim 315 (Can be used as contact cement and wetbond, but is stronger as contact cement) it's a really strong glue.

Solvent based: Renia Syntic Total.

 

Why not pick up some Saregum from Mando? I know Peter Nitz used that glue for everything before (wallets and bags) Now I think he have switched to Ecostick.

Here are a couple of examples of good water based glues.

Renia Aquilim 315 https://www.ds-leder.de/index_renia-aquilim-315-200.html

Renia Aquilim GL (Longer working time) https://www.ds-leder.de/index_renia-aquilim-GL-200.html

Saregum 130 https://mando.fr/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=2128

Intercom Ecostick 1816B https://www.eprose.fr/ (Contact them, they are reseller for Ecostick in France)

Seiwa Bond Ace https://leathercrafttools.com/item/9944/ (I don't know any source in Europe for this glue)

 

[Danne]

7 minutes ago, Hardrada said:

I'd rather use contact cement. Haven't had good luck with water-based glue (Aquilim 315): over time it dries and the 'glued' parts come apart.

In France it wouldn't be difficult to buy some Renia Colle de Cologne: very good contact cement and you can use it to glue more than just leather: think about fabric for linings or plastic pieces.

I've seen some leatherworkers use Hirschkleber. Always wanted to try that one, but haven't had a chance to get ahold of some.

Strange, I've had no problems like this. Not when used as contact cement or wetbond. Is it on oily/waxy leathers? I just looked through some old test pieces and found one glued together years ago and it's as strong as it was when I glued it.

[Hardrada]

3 hours ago, Danne said:

Strange, I've had no problems like this. Not when used as contact cement or wetbond. Is it on oily/waxy leathers? I just looked through some old test pieces and found one glued together years ago and it's as strong as it was when I glued it.

Happens on all leathers. I'm puzzled like heck as well. I watched Renia's demo video and got a 4 oz bottle from Rocky Mountain Leather Supply. Well, it doesn't behave like anything in the video, even though I apply it like they do in there. No permanent bond at all. Either I got a dud or, and I strongly suspect this might be the cause, it was frozen in transit and ruined.

It works OK as a temporary glue to hold pieces together whilst punching holes/stitching, but not for permanent bonds. Maybe I should reorder some during the summer and try again.

[Arturomex]

2 hours ago, Hardrada said:

Happens on all leathers. I'm puzzled like heck as well. I watched Renia's demo video and got a 4 oz bottle from Rocky Mountain Leather Supply. Well, it doesn't behave like anything in the video, even though I apply it like they do in there. No permanent bond at all. Either I got a dud or, and I strongly suspect this might be the cause, it was frozen in transit and ruined.

It works OK as a temporary glue to hold pieces together whilst punching holes/stitching, but not for permanent bonds. Maybe I should reorder some during the summer and try again.

Perhaps it was frozen. The curse of ordering anything like that in Canada in the winter, eh?

I use both Barge and Renia Aquilim SG depending on what I'm doing and both work well. The Aquilim stays tacky for a long time and gives me a little "wiggle room" to re-position if I need to. Another thing I like about the Aquilim is that I can use it to paste patterns onto finished leather, peel the pattern off without any problems and it doesn't leave anything on the leather surface. Simply apply the cement to the pattern only, let it cure down well and stick it on the leather. (As always, a test drive is recommended. LOL)

I hope you'll give it another try. While it doesn't show on the website, Lonsdale has it in stock. Not sure about sizes available but it might be worth giving them a call.

Regards,

Arturo

[zuludog]

I use Evostik Impact , multi-purpose instant contact adhesive. It's available in small tubes or larger cans

[ThoughtFission]

9 hours ago, $$hobby said:

welcome,

I noticed you are outside of the USA, so any leather craft place maybe hard to find.

but if you have any leather craft places where you live i would check there first.  Some may have some bonded leather samples just like they would with leather dyes.  

for what its worth, i prefer Barge Cement.  its is a contact cement.  If you have not worked with a contact cement,  you more or less apply a thin coat to both sides and let dry/get tacky and put the glued faces together.   Its more or less a 1 time shot.  So no do-overs.  If you do end up using it, i would have some practice pieces and see what you think.

I know you can buy a toothpaste size tube if you dont want to invest in a can if you are not sure.  But not sure if you can find it outside of the USA.  You can try Amazon.EU?

Barge is also smelly, so if you decide to  use it, i would use it in a well vented room or outside.

also for what its worth, for a wallet, i would be picky on whats used.  I had used some glue on a wallet and after a time, the glue failed but ended up gooey and if you can imagine it not staying put but creeping to where the notes were kept.  

Yes, a Canadian living in the south of France Based on the feedback, there seem to be two strong contenders here as well as from recognized youtubers; Renia Colle de Cologne  and Evostik. RCC is much less expensive here in France. Evostik seems hard to find and if ordered from the UK, it's very expensive. So I think I'll go with RCC for now.

Edited July 16, 2020 by ThoughtFission

[ThoughtFission]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their replies! I'm new to leatherworker.net but I am already blown away by how friendly and helpful everyone here is. It really is great to be part of such an inclusive, supportive community.

[paloma]

i also live in south of france,

but,it's not the reason i used,some times neoprene glue,or wood glue ( Titebond original wood glue or sader bois ) depending the work. If i m sure of me i used neopren ( contact glue) if i need some time to adjust my work i used wood glue,and i prefer Titbond because it's stay hard  when dry it's more easy to sand.I used sader-patex wood glue white when i have very small thing to adjust before stitching.

one tip, for neopren ( contact glue ) i love Limpiprene it's a glue used by plumbers it's clear once dry.

And i also use fish glue,or skin rabit glue,or bone glue for very other special works,but it's not the matter of this post not what this thread is about.

Edited July 16, 2020 by paloma

[$$hobby]

for what its worth there are glues out there that can be temperature sensitive.

when i worked at my cousins store they sold a crap load of "tug o war" glue.  It was a like a milky latex base? and customers used it to patch up their worn carharts.   But one order was received when it froze either on our end or the shippers end.  we didnt know until some customer came in with the bottle they purchased and it came out clumpy or like runny cottage cheese.  

My cousin checked the mfg if there was any freezing issues and there was so it was ordered before our winters and hopefully enough to cover until our spring.  

@op,

if it was me, i would just get what you can get locally and do some testing on some leather.  There were some suggestions from the UK/Sweden and depending on where you live in France, it could be a Eurostar train ride away or maybe a ferry ride.  to me it would be good reason to get out of dodge and maybe do some shopping.

Also, i think when i was in Amsterdam one time there was something like a leather trade show going on.  I didnt realize leatherwork was big enough to have a show in Europe, but i guess if you have a handfull of people from several countries in Europe, it could be a big and nice show.

have fun with the glue...

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by $$hobby

[ThoughtFission]

On 7/17/2020 at 1:38 AM, $$hobby said:

for what its worth there are glues out there that can be temperature sensitive.

when i worked at my cousins store they sold a crap load of "tug o war" glue.  It was a like a milky latex base? and customers used it to patch up their worn carharts.   But one order was received when it froze either on our end or the shippers end.  we didnt know until some customer came in with the bottle they purchased and it came out clumpy or like runny cottage cheese.  

My cousin checked the mfg if there was any freezing issues and there was so it was ordered before our winters and hopefully enough to cover until our spring.  

@op,

if it was me, i would just get what you can get locally and do some testing on some leather.  There were some suggestions from the UK/Sweden and depending on where you live in France, it could be a Eurostar train ride away or maybe a ferry ride.  to me it would be good reason to get out of dodge and maybe do some shopping.

Also, i think when i was in Amsterdam one time there was something like a leather trade show going on.  I didnt realize leatherwork was big enough to have a show in Europe, but i guess if you have a handfull of people from several countries in Europe, it could be a big and nice show.

have fun with the glue...

 

 

 

Lol, you've obviously never paid for a train ticket in France! Would make the cost of the glue rather expensive. But I get your point. I think, given the pandemic and all, I'll stay local. Renia Colle de Cologne  seems to be the best choice that is accessible, affordable and like by many.

On 7/16/2020 at 11:33 AM, paloma said:

i also live in south of france,

but,it's not the reason i used,some times neoprene glue,or wood glue ( Titebond original wood glue or sader bois ) depending the work. If i m sure of me i used neopren ( contact glue) if i need some time to adjust my work i used wood glue,and i prefer Titbond because it's stay hard  when dry it's more easy to sand.I used sader-patex wood glue white when i have very small thing to adjust before stitching.

one tip, for neopren ( contact glue ) i love Limpiprene it's a glue used by plumbers it's clear once dry.

And i also use fish glue,or skin rabit glue,or bone glue for very other special works,but it's not the matter of this post not what this thread is about.

Thanks :) I have not heard of some of these. I'm in the Charente, where are you?

[toxo]

I'm always surprised on these glue threads that no one mentions Gorilla glue. It's not like other glues. You have to dampen the leather and it foams and expands and you have to hold it in place whilst it cures - moveable for ten mins, sets in about an hour and fully cured after 24hrs. I've only used it for small applications but by Christ it holds. Made a mistake and inadvertantly moved a piece when putting books on it. next day I had to rip the leather glue was going nowhere. I've often thought it might be the answer for those oily leathers the other stuff won't do.

For most of my glueing I use a cheap solvent based contact adhesive that frustrated me because it dried out too quickly in the tin but I'm happy now since I bought a bottle of toluene and now I can have it as runny as I like every time.

[AzShooter]

I tried Renie but the glue was too thick to work with.  I guess they sent me an old bottle.  I had to add water to get it to be usable, after that it works o.k.

I use Barge.  Been using it for a long time.  I don't mind the smell, I glue in the garage with a fan on so that the smell doesn't get into the house.

Gorilla glue...great glue for many purposes but dries very hard 

[jcuk]

I use this does smell a bit just leave my workshop door open works well.

https://www.abbeyengland.com/441-contact-adhesive-490.html

Hope this helps

JCUK

 

[$$hobby]

On 7/19/2020 at 1:32 AM, ThoughtFission said:

Lol, you've obviously never paid for a train ticket in France! Would make the cost of the glue rather expensive. But I get your point. I think, given the pandemic and all, I'll stay local. Renia Colle de Cologne  seems to be the best choice that is accessible, affordable and like by many.

used the Eurostar several times but always bought 6 months out.

Only internal French trips was Paris <> Bayeux and Bayeux <> Caen.  Not a big deal $$ wise.  Did some other CROSSborder trains, but again, i buy sooner than later.  

But what i found out via Seat61 is that for INTRAcountry trains price can be expensive such as in the UK depending on where/when.  But if you buy tickets sooner than later you can usually get some good deals.  

Yes, they maybe expensive and to me its relative.  But considering that i hate driving and the trains over-there work for me.  Even if it cost a bit more, id rather take a train anytime and any day than to drive.

but for me, i would use it as an "excuse" to get out of dodge and to be in some other country for a while.

[ThoughtFission]

On 7/20/2020 at 11:23 PM, $$hobby said:

used the Eurostar several times but always bought 6 months out.

Only internal French trips was Paris <> Bayeux and Bayeux <> Caen.  Not a big deal $$ wise.  Did some other CROSSborder trains, but again, i buy sooner than later.  

But what i found out via Seat61 is that for INTRAcountry trains price can be expensive such as in the UK depending on where/when.  But if you buy tickets sooner than later you can usually get some good deals.  

Yes, they maybe expensive and to me its relative.  But considering that i hate driving and the trains over-there work for me.  Even if it cost a bit more, id rather take a train anytime and any day than to drive.

but for me, i would use it as an "excuse" to get out of dodge and to be in some other country for a while.

No question, trains are a great way to travel in France/Europe. It's just that as a person just starting a small leather business, every penny is precious. But I get your point.

[Danne]

58 minutes ago, ThoughtFission said:

No question, trains are a great way to travel in France/Europe. It's just that as a person just starting a small leather business, every penny is precious. But I get your point.

You said you planned to use Renia Colle (If you do, then use a respirator, because of the solvents.)

But do you really need a solvent based glue? The only time I use solvent based glues are when I use synthethic reinforcement. Water based glues as really good, and very strong when used as contact cement.

For example. Peter Nitz used Saregum 130 for both bags and wallets (He often used it for alligator/crocodile and chevre) for years with good result, he recently changed to Ecostick. But Saregum will work fine for regular leather (you might need a solvent based glue if you work with really oily/waxy leathers. Are you going to stitch your edges, if yes then you certainly don't have to worry.

A couple of alternatives in France:

Saregum 130: https://mando.fr/index.php?dispatch=products.view&amp;product_id=2128

Aquagum 018: https://www.cuirtextilecrea.com/colle-contact-aqueuse-aquagum-018-500-ml-c2x26994292

Ecostick resellers in France: d.kermarec@compagniedestanneurs.com and contact@eprose.fr

 

[ThoughtFission]

11 hours ago, Danne said:

You said you planned to use Renia Colle (If you do, then use a respirator, because of the solvents.)

But do you really need a solvent based glue? The only time I use solvent based glues are when I use synthethic reinforcement. Water based glues as really good, and very strong when used as contact cement.

For example. Peter Nitz used Saregum 130 for both bags and wallets (He often used it for alligator/crocodile and chevre) for years with good result, he recently changed to Ecostick. But Saregum will work fine for regular leather (you might need a solvent based glue if you work with really oily/waxy leathers. Are you going to stitch your edges, if yes then you certainly don't have to worry.

A couple of alternatives in France:

Saregum 130: https://mando.fr/index.php?dispatch=products.view&amp;product_id=2128

Aquagum 018: https://www.cuirtextilecrea.com/colle-contact-aqueuse-aquagum-018-500-ml-c2x26994292

Ecostick resellers in France: d.kermarec@compagniedestanneurs.com and contact@eprose.fr

 

Wow! thank you so much. Very helpful info!

[Danne]

2 hours ago, ThoughtFission said:

Wow! thank you so much. Very helpful info!

compagniedestanneurs also sell grained calf in smaller panels which is nice for a small crafter (i.e no need to buy full skins. They call it Epsom which is Hermès brand name for Haas Derby from tannery Haas. I can't really find any information if compagniedestanneurs is a tannery or a reseller, and if this leather is from Haas or if they just call it Epsom (because most people now that leather type as Epsom) I don't speak French, if this leather is something that is suitable for you, and maybe you check their site or get samples, I would be very thankful if you updated me, if it's not Haas Derby (Epsom) how is the leather, what temper, full grain? and such. 

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Danne

[ThoughtFission]

10 hours ago, Danne said:

compagniedestanneurs also sell grained calf in smaller panels which is nice for a small crafter (i.e no need to buy full skins. They call it Epsom which is Hermès brand name for Haas Derby from tannery Haas. I can't really find any information if compagniedestanneurs is a tannery or a reseller, and if this leather is from Haas or if they just call it Epsom (because most people now that leather type as Epsom) I don't speak French, if this leather is something that is suitable for you, and maybe you check their site or get samples, I would be very thankful if you updated me, if it's not Haas Derby (Epsom) how is the leather, what temper, full grain? and such. 

 

I can certainly have  look for you. But to be honest, my French skills aren't great either. I'm just at the beginning of my leather odyssey, so I'm just learning and I'm not sure I would feel comfortable giving anyone advice at this point. I get my leather from a local supplier. I have the good fortune to live very close to a bunch of leather houses, including the new Hermes factories here in the south west of France. So I have a few options for leather right here in my back yard. I hadn't heard of La Campanie des Tanneurs until you mentioned them.

I did have one follow on question regarding Evo-Stik. A lot of people recommend it. Does it also use Solvents? I also found a water based glue last week that gets rave reviews and apparently is used by the likes of Hermes and others. I think I might try it.