Tandy Doodle Pages

[Johanna]

Tandy used to give away Doodle Pages. I have a lot of Doodle Pages, and many are the vintage ones. I see in the email flyers that Tandy is now charging for copies of them. They are also for sale all over eBay. A leather guild once made a cd out of some really old ones a few years ago, and was threatened by Tandy with lawsuits, so the cd project was scrapped. Was Tandy bluffing, hoping to profit from DP sales?

Would anyone be interested in downloading old Doodle Pages if I scanned them?

Is it legal to scan the ones I have and making them available for download? Could I be sued for sharing what Tandy once gave away?

Who owns the Doodle Pages, the authors, or Tandy? Do I need permission from anyone to share something I obtained from Tandy at no charge?

Why is it legal to sell Doodle pages on eBay but not give them away with no expectation of profit?

Am I the only person who thinks it's outrageous that Tandy is trying to make a profit from old Doodle Pages?

I have hard copies of "free" Doodle Pages from the sixties through the nineties. Are there any attorneys in the house?

Johanna

[shirleyz]

Would anyone be interested in downloading old Doodle Pages if I scanned them?

I am interested in absolutely anything that's free!!! I'll download it!

Shirley

[Dale]

I'd be careful about this one, Johanna. I can't speak with authority, but I believe TLF owns the rights to these pages. The owner has rights to make, sell, give, or destroy any number of them they want and in any format they want. While you have the right to sell, give, or destroy any copy of the item you obtained legally, they must give explicit approval for you to make copies in any format. You may give your copy(ies) away if you choose, but you can't reproduce them and sell or give them away. I believe IILG ran into an issue with them a couple years ago. You may want to ask someone there. Again, I don't speak with authority, but this is my understanding of copyright.

Dale

[stelmackr]

Hummmm, I think that Tandy's Doodle pages, as previously mentioned, like all orginal artwork are covered by copyright protection. Rather than trying to copy, buy or replicate those Doodle pages, I would rather see us create new Doodle like pages. Those pages could be like the Open Source software licenses allowing copying, modification as long as the original artist's name and comment are retained. Those Doodle pages were great, but it is time to create a new format. Change the name from "Doodle Pages" to something new (i.e. "e-Pages", "Maker Pages", "Show-and-Tell Pages", or whatever, and create a format and venue to post for electronic distribution. Anyone could use for any purpose--just like the Tandy pages. Get a few real teachers of the art (Peter Main, Chan Geer, Ron Ross, etc.) to make the first few and let others add what they can. Those pages could be used and modified and reposted as a dervative with the original artists license and the modifiers addtional license.

I say, let's create something new. And if you want old Doodle Pages, buy, sell, or trade to get them.

Bob Stelmack

Editor, RawHide Gazette

www.pslac.org

[Billsotx]

Jo, I believe Tandy probably owns the copyright to the Doodle Pages since they

published and distributed them. The probably objected to the CDs being made,

sold and distributed because there was money changing hands. I'm no lawyer, but

I have had some dealings with copyright. If you want to brush up on it get a

copy of Writer's Market from the library. It's covered there in layman's terms

pretty well.When you, I, we write, draw, take a photo of something we

own that copyright. As it rolls off the keyboard it is copyrighted. You can

actually register it and apply for a copyright if you are into spending money.

That is no longer a necessity. It is wise to always place your by-line or

pen-name on your work and it doesn't hurt to place one of those little copyright

symbols on there either. Unless the author sells the copyright to someone it

remains the author's and his heirs for his lifetime plus 50 years (this maybe be

100 years, but I believe it was changed to 50). The author can sell rights to a

publisher. Example: In the 70s I did a lot of freelance writing and I would only

sell "First North American Serial Right; For one time publication." That allows

the author to resell his work to another country or publisher or medium. The

exception - the author is being paid to write, draw, photograph, create, etc. In

which case the copyright belongs to the employer, contractor; if you write or

drawn on company time, it belongs to the boss - don't get caught ... lol. I'm

looking at some TLF D-pages by Moody, Lair, Hoyt, McKay; we know Moody worked

for Tandy so his work is probably copyrighted to Tandy. He probably had a

contract and he or his heirs may get royalties. I'm sure these are all covered

by contract.

Would anyone be interested in downloading old Doodle Pages if I scanned them?

I'm interested! As long as you don't sell them or put them up on the web for free picking I don't think you'll hear from Tandy. Of course, the Doodle Page Police may be working UC on this board, so now we're burnt ... lol

Is it legal to scan the ones I have and making them available for download? Could I be sued for sharing what Tandy once gave away?

The D-pages I have here clear state No reproduction, etc. Tandy has the money and I'm sure the machinery to go after you if you get into circulation. Definitely if you begin to sell them. That's not what you're about. If them deem you are getting into business and making money off their property they sue you, otherwise you "may" received a letter demanding that you cease and desist. If that happens comply.

Who owns the Doodle Pages, the authors, or Tandy? Do I need permission from anyone to share something I obtained from Tandy at no charge?

More that likely Tandy owns them; at least the ones I have here. You have to have permission if you want to be legal.

Why is it legal to sell Doodle pages on eBay but not give them away with no expectation of profit?

Selling D-pages on ebay is like selling books or magazines on ebay. But start to copy, reproduce and especially to distribute and/or circulate and that's a copyright violation. Otherwise you are selling used D-pages, books, magazines, etec. - totally legal, "if" you own them.

Am I the only person who thinks it's outrageous that Tandy is trying to make a profit from old Doodle Pages?

The pages belong to them and it's their property. They can give them away, sell them, destroy them, recycle them into T-paper if they want.

I have hard copies of "free" Doodle Pages from the sixties through the nineties. Are there any attorneys in the house?

If you scan and send through personal, off list, emails you probably will not hear a thing. If you decide to share them and you are told to cease and desist - comply. I don't know if Greg's mother or Greg are getting royalities from his Dad's doodle pages, but maybe he can fill in some of the blanks.

Bottomline - it's illegal. Will Tandy call you own it? Probably if you make a spectical of it. How will they know if you send me and Shirley and scan - unless Shirley is working UC for the D-Page Police - she sure was quick to accept ... lol ... Just kidding Shirley. Now if you make doodle pages of that sexy Bad-to-the-bone Bad-A erotic lady you been puttin' on them chopper seats - I'll buy one! ... lol

[ClayB]

I would tend to agree with those that say "don't try it".

One thing that I would like to add is that at one time, Tandy offered the Stohlman doodle pages in book form. There were three books, each one covering several years worth of the doodle pages the Stohlman's wrote. Since they were sold in book form I am sure that Tandy owns the copyright to those ones.

Clay

[Randy Cornelius]

I have the CD you refer to. I don't see why I could not copy it for free with a shipping and handling charge

[pete]

I have a few REALLY old ones but would LOVE to have as many as I could get. Send them on if you possibly can!!!!!!!

pete

[Johanna]

Randy- don't do it, or you'll end up getting banned from the IILG or sued by Tandy.

Johanna

[Dragons Pearl]

I also would like to get some of those doodle pages. I recently bought a load of leatherworking tools, stamps, dyes, books, patterns and a lot of other stuff. Some of the older pages are really cool. But not if it will get anyone's tail in a bind.

I would be for making our own pages, but I admit that I have no clue as to how to design a pattern lol. When I stamp, its never the same even if I try to match on two pieces. And forget drawing. I am barely able to trace patterns.