Cheap Chinese sewing machine question

[Wdiaz03]

Hi all. I'm new to leather working. I was looking to get a cheap chinese machine. I noticed Amazon has one for $120 with aluminum body. Is there a benefit to getting the cast iron body vs aluminum? Will there be flex etc to consider? Thanks.

[dikman]

$120?? Can you provide a link so we know which machine you are referring to?

And what do you want to sew?

[Wizcrafts]

5 hours ago, Wdiaz03 said:

Hi all. I'm new to leather working. I was looking to get a cheap chinese machine. I noticed Amazon has one for $120 with aluminum body. Is there a benefit to getting the cast iron body vs aluminum? Will there be flex etc to consider? Thanks.

Neither, if you are really serious about sewing leather. Otherwise, if this is just a personal hobby, with no immediate plans for professional use, aluminum expands faster with small temperature changes than iron or steel. Iron will be more stable, although much heavier. Any alterations/improvements you make to get it to sew will probably hold longer in a more solid frame.

[Wdiaz03]

https://www.amazon.com/Cobbler-Machine-Leather-Mending-Shipping/dp/B08Q34KZLD/ref=mp_s_a_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=cobbler+sewing+machine&qid=1613366072&sr=8-9

this is the type of machine, its  purely as a hobby , more for functional items than aesthetics. For knife sheaths, etc

[Arturomex]

You might want to read through this:  https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/93398-amazon-shoe-patcher-machine-frustrations/

I'd be inclined to save my money.

Regards,

Arturo

 

[Aven]

A variable speed drill press and small drill bits will probably serve you better than that sewing machine.  You will have to hand sew it after you drill out the holes, but it will do the job, and you will be able to use the drill press to sand and burnish the edges afterwards.  You have to be gentle, but once you get the hang of drilling the holes out, it goes fast enough.  I think I got my variable drill press from MicroMark, but that was like ten years ago. What I like about it is the small foot print and the variable speed, that comes in handy.  I wonder if a router speed control unit would do the same thing.

[kgg]

10 hours ago, Wdiaz03 said:

its  purely as a hobby , more for functional items than aesthetics. For knife sheaths, etc

I have never seen any of those machines that were made out of aluminum, typically they are made out of cast iron. These little machines can and often times require a lot of cleaning and tinkering to get them to function. Will they sew? Yes, but the frustration level is often not worth the effort. They can get you out of a bind but once again they can be very frustrating. The fit and finish on these machines is to say the least poor at best. The amount of thread the bobbin can hold is very same less then a old domestic Singer. I do have one but it is mainly for tinkering with. If you just want functional for some items you maybe better off using copper rivets and burrs. (Drill/punch holes, insert rivet through put burr on, cut rivet shaft to right length with cutting pliers and use a hammer to flatten rivet shaft over the burr.) If you want to sew thick items sheaths/holsters and want to use arm power the one arm bandits from Cowboy (Outlaw), Tippman (Boss) or Weaver ( Master Tools Cub) would be much better options. You maybe able to get one on the used market.

kgg

[chrisash]

Horses for courses, if you want first class stitches then buy a first class machine, if your happy to fiddle then they say you can make a acceptable stich with the $120 machines and even convert to electric motor

If you do not have much money to spend then they are the answer, just like a lot of people will only buy the most expensive tools on a belief they are better than others

The other option is old second hand industrial machines on eBay and the like where you can pickup singer 111w type machines for only slightly more than the $120 if you are in no ruch

[Wizcrafts]

I've read a bunch of reviews from people who bought these Chinese street cobbler patchers. Some were happy out of the box. Others were happy after fixing or modifying their machines from defects out of the box. Still others complained of missing parts, or not being able to get the machine to sew. I suspect the missing parts buyers got machines that were returned from unhappy customers and were just repackaged and shipped out as is.

Some of the sellers offer to take back unwanted machines, within a short timeframe. Others have no return policy at all. It appears none I saw offered any assistance after the sale. Finally, the machines that actually included instructions had them in poorly translated "Chinglish." Some buyers reported they didn't get any instructions.

All of the machines I looked at, despite color differences, were built exactly the same. The prices vary 2:1 for the same machine from different resellers.

It appears that after buying a Chinese patcher that doesn't work right, buyers are coming here for assistance. This is their only source of possible assistance since the sellers and builders don't offer support. After dealing with real leather sewing machine problems for so many years, we now are helping poor souls fix a new spate of crap machines from the Orient. At least the Chinese brands supporting this forum build high quality machines and have representatives in the USA, Canada and down under. And, unlike the street cobbler machine makers, they have English speaking Chinese representatives who can actually be contacted from here.

To the (potential) Amazon/eBay Chinese cobbler patch machine buyers coming here for help or opinions; set your sights higher. Contact our advertising dealers to see what new or used working condition patch machines they have for sale. I have spoken to all of our advertisers and they are helpful people doing business properly. I have bought new and used machines from several dealers on here and have never ever been left in the lurch.

[Wdiaz03]

Thanks all for the replies and suggestions, I pulled the trigger on an aluminum version from ebay. $114 shipped. I obviously have little expectations, sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised with some of the Chinese stuff for the use I give them. Example the Harbor Freight $10 angle grinder. So it's not a Makita but it has been working for a few years now for what I needed it to do. oR their mig welder for that matter,   So I'm hoping this will be the same. Nothing fancy just being able to do some ugly but functional work. 

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, Wdiaz03 said:

Thanks all for the replies and suggestions, I pulled the trigger on an aluminum version from ebay. $114 shipped. I obviously have little expectations, sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised with some of the Chinese stuff for the use I give them. Example the Harbor Freight $10 angle grinder. So it's not a Makita but it has been working for a few years now for what I needed it to do. oR their mig welder for that matter,   So I'm hoping this will be the same. Nothing fancy just being able to do some ugly but functional work. 

I wish you luck. Maybe you will be one of the lucky buyers who receives a complete working machine. If so, come back and post pictures here of things you make and repair with it. Be sure to sew some shoe uppers as this is what they are actually made for. A worn out tennis/walking shoe will do.

[chrisash]

Never having brought a Chinese Patcher its hard to comment on the quality, but i do feel Wiz is a bit biased in his comments above as he has always been a strong supporter of the advertisers (Who it seems do help offer a first class service ) and in my opinion and many others, based upon a good number of posts on both this and other forums, Owners seem them to be a low risk solution to what people on limited means can afford to do a job, they are not looking for a top end machine that may make better stitches

I personally doubt that many buyers would even consider returning these machines if they were faulty as the return postage alone would be near the buying price

How much support do you get from Singer, Juli or others, do you get for old machines that cost the same amount of money, most of us rely on the great contributors like Uwe Grosse to help us maintain our machines

A cheap machine that according to many works, is all many can afford, and rather pointless to steer them to something they cannot afford

Edited February 17, 2021 by chrisash

[veedub3]

7 hours ago, Wdiaz03 said:

Thanks all for the replies and suggestions, I pulled the trigger on an aluminum version from ebay. $114 shipped. I obviously have little expectations, sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised with some of the Chinese stuff for the use I give them. Example the Harbor Freight $10 angle grinder. So it's not a Makita but it has been working for a few years now for what I needed it to do. oR their mig welder for that matter,   So I'm hoping this will be the same. Nothing fancy just being able to do some ugly but functional work. 

Not sure what you are looking at or reading but NONE of these machine are made with an aluminum body. Even in the link from Amazon you posted, that is NOT an aluminum body machine. Look again, the body is made from cast iron. With that said, I was skeptical at first of this machine in the beginning, but mine worked right out of the box and all the cosmoline most say came caked on theirs, I didn't experience that. I use this machine for sewing leather tooled patches onto converse sneakers, Hey Dudes, Clogs, and sewing leather patches onto caps mostly, not as my main sewing machine but many that have this machine do. I have a Techsew for that.  Since you have already purchased the machine, to help you get it up and running and a list of some modifications, there is a Facebook page that has everything you need, even a manual not in "Chinglish".  Check them on here. 

Karina

[kgg]

When you get your machine check it over very carefully for obvious signs of damage and missing parts. The first one I purchased off Amazon . ca was from YaeTool purchased for about $120 Cad ($95 US) delivered. When it arrived the the cylinder arm was completely snapped away from the body and was missing most of the small items like bobbins, nuts, bolts, etc. Cast iron does not like to be banged around. Glad I purchased it from Amazon and the return process was easy.  It was then replaced with a machine from YaeTek (notice the similar name) same machine even down to the paint. Parts were there but the it took a fair bit of time to get the packing grime off and the machine setup to stitch. It is a true tinkers delight.

Just my experience,

kgg

[dikman]

8 hours ago, kgg said:

 It is a true tinkers delight.

kgg

Pretty well sums it up, I think.

[Wizcrafts]

16 hours ago, chrisash said:

but i do feel Wiz is a bit biased in his comments above as he has always been a strong supporter of the advertisers

I don't deny being biased towards our advertisers. They, along with a handful of paying contributor members keep this forum and its dedicated server online.

I also prefer known good brands and models of used leather sewing machines. I have owned dozens of them since 1985. I currently have two "patch" machines. One is a Singer 29k71 and the other is an Adler 30-7, both bought in private sales. I drove 220 miles round trip and paid $400 cash for the Singer 29k71 (head only) and another $150 for a treadle base from an old friend. The Adler cost me $1300 as is. I use these machines to earn a living. Until August of 2012 I sewed for a friend on his Adler 30-70 patcher that he wouldn't sell for $2000 if his life depended on it. These are real workhorse leather sewing machines that sew perfectly for decades, as long as they are used within their design limits and oiled.

I don't care if somebody else only wants to spend $120 for a cheaply built Chinese patcher. But, having sewn on multiple Singer and Adler patchers since the mid 1980s, I am biased towards actual quality machines that can still sew after 60 to 100+ years from their date of manufacture with only minor repairs. Even though some old industrial sewing machines may need new parts to bring them back to spec, they are usually still available and will keep the machines sewing for decades to come. Will a $120 Chinese street cobbler's patcher still sew in 20, 30, or 50 years? I guess time will tell.

I try to steer newbies coming here for advice towards better quality machines to save them the frustration of fighting to make a POS work, even if that means buying a new or used machine from a dealer (who will give actual operational support when needed). Reading about the lack of any support from the Amazon patcher sellers disappoints me after years of buying from established industrial sewing machine dealers since 1985. I guess these cobbled together patch machines are the Wild West of sewing machines where anything goes and quality and dealer assistance are non-existent.

I guess that's all I've got to say about tha-at (Forrest Gump). If this offends anybody, suck it up buttercup!

[327fed]

In College I bought a $50 guitar. Never learned to play it - action too stiff for a beginner. My roommate and friends had a fantastic bluegrass band and tried to teach me to play. I could play the fire out of one of the group’s $1200 Martin flattop. But never mastered mine. I still believe if I had that Martin then I would have learned to play. Beginners need good equipment more than old hands do. Frustration compiled with beginner stumbles can make you give it up. 

[kgg]

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

If this offends anybody, suck it up buttercup!

I like that.

kgg

[DonInReno]

Lol

 

 

 

[Wdiaz03]

On 2/17/2021 at 4:29 AM, veedub3 said:

Not sure what you are looking at or reading but NONE of these machine are made with an aluminum body. Even in the link from Amazon you posted, that is NOT an aluminum body machine. Look again, the body is made from cast iron. With that said, I was skeptical at first of this machine in the beginning, but mine worked right out of the box and all the cosmoline most say came caked on theirs, I didn't experience that. I use this machine for sewing leather tooled patches onto converse sneakers, Hey Dudes, Clogs, and sewing leather patches onto caps mostly, not as my main sewing machine but many that have this machine do. I have a Techsew for that.  Since you have already purchased the machine, to help you get it up and running and a list of some modifications, there is a Facebook page that has everything you need, even a manual not in "Chinglish".  Check them on here. 

Karina

Sorry about the mixed up, I posted the first link that showed up on amazon just because it matched the design of machine I was looking at. I can't seem to find the aluminum one anymore on Amazon, The prices are now on the $140 and up. the machine I saw then was identical but in the description it noted in big letters being a newer (improved) design from aluminum saving 5lbs in weight etc. and it was the cheapest of the chinese cobblers at $120.

I also asked a seller of the cheapest cobbler on ebay if his was aluminum thinking that the cheapest ones were being made of aluminum now to save on weight. and he replied it was. I purchased it for $114 and it was cast iron when it arrived, which I don't mind. his reply was that the manufacturer was producing both batches and got it wrong.

[Wdiaz03]

Thank you all for the great replies, I ended up buying it from ebay for #114 and it arrived quickly. First thing was taking the machine apart and scrubbing it with mineral spirit. Then it was on to grind the rough spots, and bending and aligning stuff. sanding sliding surfaces and applying grease. and oil. End result is that it runs pretty smooth. i only have the nylon fishing line looking string it comes with and have tried it on leather and rubber. seems to work.  Want to align round ring on top of the head some more since foot is higher on one side than the other, this causes different size stitches when rotating the foot. other than that I'm ready to venture on my first project. a pocket holster that prints like a wallet. Have the pattern cut.

Unfortunately I don't have a Facebook account and i'm hesitant to create one, but that seems like a nice source of wisdom, I mostly watched youtube videos and that got me going. Also I'm new to leather or sewing in general over the years a have salvaged leader form discarded furniture knowing i would eventually would try to sew it. I ordered some scrap of thick leather from ebay as i don't know where to get it. Ideally one could dumpster dive at a local leather goods factory. but do those exist anymore

I've attached a sample of rubber and leather tests on he rubber I changed stich length while stitching just to see.

Thanks again.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Wdiaz03

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, Wdiaz03 said:

i only have the nylon fishing line looking string it comes with and have tried it on leather and rubber. seems to work. 

You can buy #69 (aka: T70) bonded nylon or bonded polyester thread all over the place. Load some bobbins with it then thread it along the top. I don't know what needle "system" it uses, but the needle's "size" should be 18/110 for #69 bonded thread. Here is a thread and needle chart/specs sheet to help you match thread and needle sizes (diameters).

[Wdiaz03]

3 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

You can buy #69 (aka: T70) bonded nylon or bonded polyester thread all over the place. Load some bobbins with it then thread it along the top. I don't know what needle "system" it uses, but the needle's "size" should be 18/110 for #69 bonded thread. Here is a thread and needle chart/specs sheet to help you match thread and needle sizes (diameters).

Thank you, good info, This machine uses 15x1 which I think is the same as me old singer slant-o-matic 401A that I picked up at a goodwill for $25 years ago. But I have not tried it. I did order 10 needles packs of 14, 16, 18, 20, 22 from aliexpress and those were $0.25 a pack. I will order T60 T90 and T135 from amazon soon. that should get me going. The only issue is the thick leather. I ordered a bag if scrap from ebay for $17 which seems expensive, don't know. As i said before the thinner stuff I find easily as people discard furniture and I take chucks of leather from those. any ideas on sourcing scraps of leather would be helpful. It seems that what I got from ebai neesds to be stained but that seems like another can of worms.

Quick question regarding locking the ends of a stitch, do i start 2 stitches away from the corner, stitch 2 stitches to the corner, then reverse over those and continue on? 

 Thanks,  

Edited February 24, 2021 by Wdiaz03

[Nailbanger]

Save some money and just buy Armitages new book and awl and some needles and Tiger thread. You will be better off, especially on small stuff

[chrisash]

The basic fact is that semi pro leatherworkers or those with money to spend on their hobby will always buy the best they can afford, whilst the basic person dabbling in leatherwork on limited finances to spend on a hobby or maybe not able to hand sew anymore just wants a low cost investment that does a job. I guess nobody expects the Chinese Patcher to give results equal to a $1500-2000 machine, but some people can only afford Tandy stamps or cheap leather  yet are happy with their choice