Members Rosch22 Posted March 13, 2021 Members Report Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) Hi there, I've a very nasty chinese salesgirl from Alibaba on my back, who really wants to sell a TSC 441 Clone to me. The problem is that her offer is very good and transport is cheap. She works for a big manufacturer, so I'm really tempted to go for it. If there wouldn't be that little tentative voice sitting on my shoulder, whispering to me that this chinese girl will not only take my money but also my peace of soul and send me a 441 clone, which was found last year in a corner when cleaning up the workshop, looking for a new stupid owner, who has the money and passions to get it sewing straight. Anybody out there who went through this and can still sleep ? HELP !!!! Kindest regards to all leatherman Roland Edited March 13, 2021 by Rosch22 Quote "A stitch in time saves nine."
Members sbrownn Posted March 13, 2021 Members Report Posted March 13, 2021 Most of the "clone" sewing machines are made in China, some different brands are even made in the same factory. That being said, what is sold in China isn't necessarily identical to what is shipped to the US. In addition you lose out on service and technical help. If it were me I would probably purchase one of the Cowboy or Cobra machines from a local supplier. Despite what some on this site might claim about "made in China" these machines have an appreciative and loyal following and you have only to read the comments to se why. Quote
Moderator Wizcrafts Posted March 13, 2021 Moderator Report Posted March 13, 2021 You will be buying directly from a manufacturer in China. This makes you the dealer for the purpose of repairs. Pray the machine works properly and doesn't break down and need parts. Quote Posted IMHO, by Wiz My current crop of sewing machines: Cowboy CB4500, Singer 107w3, Singer 139w109, Singer 168G101, Singer 29k71, Singer 31-15, Singer 111w103, Singer 211G156, Adler 30-7 on power stand, Techsew 2700, Fortuna power skiver and a Pfaff 4 thread 2 needle serger.
Moderator Wizcrafts Posted March 13, 2021 Moderator Report Posted March 13, 2021 On 3/13/2021 at 4:48 PM, sbrownn said: If it were me I would probably purchase one of the Cowboy or Cobra machines from a local supplier. Expand That is good advice in most cases, but not this one. Ours is an international forum. The O.P. lives in Germany and probably has no local Cowboy or Cobra dealer. He may be able to find a Hightex dealer though and they are the parent company of Cowboy brand. Quote Posted IMHO, by Wiz My current crop of sewing machines: Cowboy CB4500, Singer 107w3, Singer 139w109, Singer 168G101, Singer 29k71, Singer 31-15, Singer 111w103, Singer 211G156, Adler 30-7 on power stand, Techsew 2700, Fortuna power skiver and a Pfaff 4 thread 2 needle serger.
Members sbrownn Posted March 13, 2021 Members Report Posted March 13, 2021 On 3/13/2021 at 4:57 PM, Wizcrafts said: That is good advice in most cases, but not this one. Ours is an international forum. The O.P. lives in Germany and probably has no local Cowboy or Cobra dealer. He may be able to find a Hightex dealer though and they are the parent company of Cowboy brand. Expand That works too. Quote
Members Constabulary Posted March 13, 2021 Members Report Posted March 13, 2021 In case you will order it - keep in mind you have to pay import taxes and then 19% Einfuhrumsatzsteuer on top. If the machine goes with DHL standard you probably have to make a trip to your local customs office (which is maybe close to you or maybe 100km away - check that on Zoll.de or call them) to provide your payment details. If they ship with DHL Express or UPS you most likely have to pay your duties on delivery at your door. DHL Express and UPS (or other forwarding companies) may charge some fees as well for handling your package (meaning doing the customs work). Quote ~ Keep "OLD CAST IRON" alive - it´s worth it ~ Machines in use: - Singer 111G156 - Singer 307G2 - Singer 29K71 - Singer 212G141 - Singer 45D91 - Singer 132K6 - Singer 108W20 - Singer 51WSV2 - Singer 143W2
Frankqv Posted March 13, 2021 Report Posted March 13, 2021 You should at least ask for a quote with DDP shipping. That is “Door to Door Paid”. Which includes all shipping,import duties,customs costs and local transport to your location. We have purchased manufacturing items from China and alway specify DDP. Watch out for DDU “door to door,unpaid”. Shipping ,transport you pay all customs ect,that can bite you. Quote
Members Matt S Posted March 13, 2021 Members Report Posted March 13, 2021 On 3/13/2021 at 4:57 PM, Wizcrafts said: That is good advice in most cases, but not this one. Ours is an international forum. The O.P. lives in Germany and probably has no local Cowboy or Cobra dealer. He may be able to find a Hightex dealer though and they are the parent company of Cowboy brand. Expand Sieck sells them, I believe, and there is at least one other German dealer of Cowboy in Germany, the name of which eludes me. @Rosch22 FWIW I was not impressed with the build quality of either of the two Chinese made sewing machines I've owned (not counting the infamous/ubiquitous manual patcher) but many people love theirs. I also occasionally buy non-sewing machines direct from China, and I usually have to factor in a bit of fettling and/or upgrading before I consider it safe or effective to use, usually dangerous electrics. Not a statistically significant sample I appreciate. However I think it important to remember that the Chinese built machines sold by reputable local dealers have often been specced, and often setup and QCed by the dealer themselves so comparing factory-direct machines and dealer-bought is a little bit apples-and-oranges. I think that one of our members from New Zealand bought a 441 clone direct from the factory and wrote about his experience. Could be worth a look. What satisfaction/protection guarantees are on offer from Alibaba, and how low of a price are we talking? Can you afford to gamble that amlunt (plus fees and taxes) on buying a pig in a poke? You may end up with a perfect machine, you may get a Juki shaped boat anchor and a suddenly very quiet sales agent. Quote
Members dikman Posted March 13, 2021 Members Report Posted March 13, 2021 There are clones and then there are clones. While they might all seem the same on the surface there could be some variation in quality of parts and how they're assembled. It would also want to be very cheap, imo, because as mentioned the hidden costs can be a killer! I went down the path of looking at importing one directly (to Australia, and we're not that far from China) but by the time I had looked at all the other costs there were no savings to be made. I contacted numerous companies and while there were a couple of follow up queries from some there was no "pestering". Unless you can get a delivered quote, as previously mentioned, I would be cautious. Quote Machines wot I have - Singer 51W59; Singer 331K4; Seiko STH-8BLD; Pfaff 335; CB4500. Chinese shoe patcher; Singer 201K (old hand crank)
Members Rosch22 Posted March 14, 2021 Author Members Report Posted March 14, 2021 Hi leathermen, Thank You very much for Your all times good arguments. You all look very well for my wellbeing. I like very much the expression of "Juki shaped boat anchor" !!! ;)))))) We have some guys here selling those machines, but I don't feel comfortable with any of them. Its sort of swimming with the sharks. A 441 with stand and a normal cheap clutch motor no extras takes 2.400 EUR plus shipment, which is quiet a piece if compared with the prices in the US. If You like a 1Phase Motor (servo) with a speed reducer instead, we talk about 3.000 EUR plus shipment. A COBRA takes more than 3.500 EUR plus shipment. The chinese head only deal would be 1.200 EUR (saving on EUR $ exchange) door to door all inklusive. No further taxes or duties are charged. That is checked. Thats why I was thinking about it in the first place !! Quote "A stitch in time saves nine."
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