Edge on holster opening

[Davm]

I've quite a few holsters but the last two...new problem and I can't figure it out.  One difference is the old holsters were a single thickness of leather and the new holsters- I've glued in a liner of thinner leather.  In any event I hand stitch with waxed linen thread- same as always but after a couple of weeks a crack develops.  I've used toothpicks to get barge cement into the crack and so far it seems to work but I'm not happy with having to do it.  How to prevent this?  I've thought about applying barge cement, clamping the edges together and keeping the holes lined up by using steel brads- run through the holes.  Any suggestions appreciated.

[fredk]

I think you just need to look at your glueing up procedure. Plenty of glue and hammering the two pieces together before a good tight clamping up. Hammering as in going along the edge area with light mallet and tapping it with purpose, but not like you are trying to put a 6 inch nail thru a board in one hit

[Dwight]

Contact cement both pieces together into one homogenous piece . . . and create your holster from there.  I generally cut both pieces . . . and I will do a very rough form fit . . . such as draping both pieces over the gun . . .  and squeezing the leather with my hands until they form a "U" that surrounds the gun.  Contact cement them together like that . . . then continue wiith making the holster.

My edges very . . .  very rarely ever try to split apart.  When it does . . . far more often than not . . . it is the leather separating . . . not the seam.

May God bless,

Dwight

[chiefjason]

I've had issue when I try to use cement that's started to cure.  When it gets thick and gummy it's time to thin it out or toss it.  I second hammering the edges.  Since I've started paying attention to the glue and hammering the glued areas I'm not having any more issues.  

[Davm]

Okay- now I realize there is a whole lot I don't know.  This is what I've done.  I groove the top edge and then run a wheel along the bottom of the groove to space out the holes and then use an awl to deepen the marks.  At that point I have a broken off awl tip and I have put that in an electric hand drill and finish off the holes, I use cheap plywood under the leather.  Now I bend the sides together and go through the drilled holes to also drill the back half.  Now I have all the holes lined up and spaced apart okay. Next I use heavy waxed linen thread and glover's needles and use a saddle stitch to stitch the sides together.

If I glue and clamp. it seems the holes would have to be made after that.  On the glue and hammering. What exactly is the hammering?  How and why do you do it? Thanks for the help- really appreciate it.

[fredk]

4 minutes ago, Davm said:

Okay- now I realize there is a whole lot I don't know.  This is what I've done.  I groove the top edge and then run a wheel along the bottom of the groove to space out the holes and then use an awl to deepen the marks.  At that point I have a broken off awl tip and I have put that in an electric hand drill and finish off the holes, I use cheap plywood under the leather.

1. I think you need to look at your awl work. In 21 years of leatherworking I've never broken an awl, never even so much as bent a tip. Try using cork, a block or sheet, to poke your awl thru the leather into.

If you can afford them, buy two* pair of these special pliers for making sewing holes; 

* 4-tooth as per the picture and a 2-tooth for going around corners and tight curves

11 minutes ago, Davm said:

 Next I use heavy waxed linen thread and glover's needles and use a saddle stitch to stitch the sides together.

2. If you have the holes prepared its better to use blunt saddlers, aka harness,  needles for saddle stitching. Less chance of piercing the thread or cutting it with the needle

14 minutes ago, Davm said:

If I glue and clamp. it seems the holes would have to be made after that.  On the glue and hammering. What exactly is the hammering?  How and why do you do it? Thanks for the help- really appreciate it.

3. Contact glue really only stays on the surface or near the surface of the leather fibres, it also keeps the two leathers apart, very minutely. The hammering forces the glue deeper and forces the leather closer together. Just use a small nylon or rubber mallet to tap the leather along the glue line after joining the two pieces together, then clamp up till the glue sets

3a. We are assuming you are joining the leathers flesh to flesh. If you join a piece grain to flesh you need to roughen up the grain side otherwise the glue won't work very well

22 minutes ago, Davm said:

If I glue and clamp. it seems the holes would have to be made after that.  

4. Here is how I'd tackle it. Cut the main piece very slightly over size. Cut the liner very slightly bigger than the main piece. Glue the liner to main piece.  Plenty of glue along the edge joint of the two pieces. Tap/hammer around the edge  Clamp the edges good and tight. Leave to let the glue set. Then trim the main piece down to correct size. Run a groover or wing dividers along the edge to mark the stitching line. Then mark and make the sewing holes on the front half of the holster. Fold holster over. From here, three or more options, 1. Glue the edges of the front & back halves together and make sewing hols in back side. 2. use double sided adhesive tape and make the holes or 3, hold together with temporary clamps, make just a few holes and use wire, thread or lace in those holes to hold the two halves together making other holes and for sewing

 

 

[tsunkasapa]

1 hour ago, Davm said:

If I glue and clamp. it seems the holes would have to be made after that.  On the glue and hammering. What exactly is the hammering?  How and why do you do it? Thanks for the help- really appreciate it.

Indeed, I always make the holes after it is glued and clamped in the stitching horse. That is what your awl is for. And glovers needles will snag and catch where a harness needle slides through. 

1; groove it

2; mark with the wheel

3; glue the edges together and hammer the GLUED JOINT to ensure full contact/adhesion of said joint

4: clamp in the horse and stab your holes as you sew. I usually stab as many as I can, depending on curve radius or straight.

[OldNSlowMarine]

Are you roughing up the leather where you'll be applying glue? If not, that could be the problem. I saw that you mentioned Barge. Which type? I've used the yellow/red can for years and it worked well. 

1. Rough leather 

2. Apply glue 

3. Let glue sit for a few minutes, 5 minutes is usually good.

4. Warm the glue with a heat gun 

5. Bond the two layers together

6. Using a cobbler's hammer, tap the two pieces where they've been glued. Or anything that you can apply pressure with. I've used a rolling pin before. I use my stainless steel boning tool now to apply pressure to the two pieces being bonded.

7. Let the glue cure overnight

8. Stitch 

9. Sand edges even. Bevel edges. Burnish edges.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by OldNSlowMarine
Added another step

[chiefjason]

15 hours ago, Davm said:

Okay- now I realize there is a whole lot I don't know.  This is what I've done.  I groove the top edge and then run a wheel along the bottom of the groove to space out the holes and then use an awl to deepen the marks.  At that point I have a broken off awl tip and I have put that in an electric hand drill and finish off the holes, I use cheap plywood under the leather.  Now I bend the sides together and go through the drilled holes to also drill the back half.  Now I have all the holes lined up and spaced apart okay. Next I use heavy waxed linen thread and glover's needles and use a saddle stitch to stitch the sides together.

If I glue and clamp. it seems the holes would have to be made after that.  On the glue and hammering. What exactly is the hammering?  How and why do you do it? Thanks for the help- really appreciate it.

 

Are you folding one piece of leather and gluing?  Hard to tell, but that descriptions sounds like it.  If so, the folding is putting more strain on the glue.  

 

Personally I would

Cut the two piece of leather for the front.

Glue them

Trim, sand and edge them

groove, awl, and stitch them

 

To the broken awl part, just use a small drill bit.  You are going a long way to drill a hole with the worst possible tool anyway.  If you like, drill it smaller than you need then widen it with a hand awl.  The thread will lay differently in awled vs drilled holes.  But an awl in an electric drill is just a poor drill bit anyway.  

[Davm]

Thanks everyone.   I am actually working with 4 layers, that is, normally you would fold over the two sides and sew them together so that's two layers, but if you laminate the holster, I glue flesh side to flesh side so as the outer surfaces inside and out are smooth, when you fold it over, the edge is smooth to smooth, so I'll roughen it up.  Next, to prevent a thick edge, I skive the heavier piece but now I am thinking the liner- just along the edge, maybe skive that after the liner installed to leave a flesh/rough edge to be sewn together and first glued.  As others have stated- I normally cut the liner a little oversized and trim.

I use scrap plywood 1/4" thick and cut out a curve that matches the edge and clamp that in place as I trim off and burnish the edge.  In any event I think on my next project I'll first glue the edge and then trim, make the groove, make the holes.

On the drill.  I had issues with making holes. On the top they were fine but on the back a hole here or there might be out of alignment. This hand drill I use has a built in level so I can drill exactly 90 degree holes- they line up okay front and back.  I'm using a small, round awl from Tandy. I think I probably need a better awl that will make holes through the leather and skip the drill.

On the needles- I have had problems with catching the thread so I stone the sharp tip down to a blunt end and that solves the problem.  One other question, how hard do most of you pull the threads as you stitch, maybe I should have them snug but not pull excessively.

On the grooves.  For the top of the holster I make a shallow groove so the stitching stands out as it is decorative but on the back of the skirt- that may rub against your leg. To protect the thread I cut the back groove a little deeper so the thread is flush or a little below the skirt surface.

 

I know these are small details but if you look at a lot of books- lots of general info but not so much on details. Again, thanks to all.

I also have a makeshift sewing horse I use.