Singer 45k25 stitch length

[courtney]

The longest stitch I’m able to get is about 3/16” , the adjuster  moves smoothly and goes from tiny to this. I’m using 23 needle 207 thread. 
Should be able to do bigger?

[jimi]

That sounds about right, 3/16 - 2/8ths - 6mm. When the feed dog wears the stitch normally gets shorter as it does not pull the same. I think the flatbeds have a longer stitch?

[ljk]

All of the early black oscillating crank drive Singer work basically the same.  From the 31-15, 44 series to the 45k.

They have conical bushings (bearings) these can be adjusted for wear.  That is the first you do take up the slack.

Next check how much clearance you have fore and aft of the feed dog. If you have have clearance you can do the following.  Grind the slot further down on the stitch length selector about a 1/4", go slow since you don't want the feed dog to  interfere with throat plate at maximum length.  

Also of note you can lock stitches on these machines by simply going to zero and make a few stitches. (embroidery machines work that way)  Also note if you put a servo with needle position you can back tack with ease by setting servo  at the  point of thread release.

Also if you glue a pc. of 2mm Teflon to your foot it will reduce surface tension.

Have done this and it works !

[Wizcrafts]

55 minutes ago, ljk said:

Also of note you can lock stitches on these machines by simply going to zero and make a few stitches. (embroidery machines work that way)

This is one way I lock starting and ending stitches if I don't want to, or simply can't backtack or spin the work around. I call it double-tapping the stitches. With two knots buried in the same hole they aren't coming out any time soon.

[courtney]

Ok, thanks. I’ve heard of patchers doing 1/2” stitches I think, so I thought this might supposed to be able to do that too. 

[ljk]

The ga5-5 which is a clone of the 45k25 shows 3 1/2 stitches per inch and the feed dog and throat plate are interchangeable so it might work on your machine, A search on Isaacs may help.

[jimi]

On 7/7/2021 at 8:30 PM, courtney said:

The longest stitch I’m able to get is about 3/16” , the adjuster  moves smoothly and goes from tiny to this. I’m using 23 needle 207 thread. 
Should be able to do bigger?

[Wizcrafts]

9 hours ago, courtney said:

Ok, thanks. I’ve heard of patchers doing 1/2” stitches I think, so I thought this might supposed to be able to do that too. 

I think that Claes are the only patchers that can do longer stitches than 4 to the inch. Singer patchers are limited to 5/inch. I used an Adler 30-70 that was capable of 4 to the inch. My Adler 30-7 can't quite give that length but comes close.

I have never seen a patcher sew 2 to the inch. It would have to have longer legs than the long throw Adlers.

However, two of my patchers have a T bar on top that is used for darning. This lifts the foot off the work long enough to pull it for long stitches.

[CowboyBob]

On 7/7/2021 at 2:30 PM, courtney said:

The longest stitch I’m able to get is about 3/16” , the adjuster  moves smoothly and goes from tiny to this. I’m using 23 needle 207 thread. 
Should be able to do bigger?

Like others have said make sure there's no play in any of the parts.Then we used to drill a hole just beyond the bottom of the slot & take a file or grinder & open it up so you have a longer slot & this will make the stitch length longer.

[Constabulary]

the cutout in the needle in which the feed dog moves can limit the stitch length too. There were 45K needle plates with shorter cutouts and smaller feed dogs. maybe you can post some pictures of your machine and how it is set up.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Constabulary

[courtney]

Thanks guys, it sounds like it’s probably ok then. I don’t really need it to do those long stitches, I just started wondering if there was something wrong with it, since I had read about bigger stitches on other machines.

 

[jimi]

Yeah, sorry for the small picture of the 45k21 courtney but you can see it says max stitch length 1/4 "

[Sham]

My 45k25 seems to stitch pretty well, but when I set it to the longer stitches it immediately leaves loops and knots on the underside. I’ve tightened the top tension until it’s way too tight and still does it. I’ve played with both top and bottom tensions. Tried a 25 needle 277 thread. When I move it back to shorter stitch the loops go away. 
 

…Also!…this is my post, “courtney” and I’ve been locked out, forgot password for a really long time, tried so many times to reset, and contact admin, but never get a response/email…can someone help me please?

[Constabulary]

@Sham

Post pictures of your threaded machine please. When you have tightened the top tension and you still have loops on the bottom I would assume too much bottom thread tension or maybe a too weak top tension spring. But I only can guess w/o knowing your machine.

[Sham]

You would think that’s it, but the bottom tension is very light, and the top tension is so tight I’m breaking needles pulling thread through by hand..,only as a test, I’ve adjusted it all different ways.

Is there any reason though that everything would change only at the longer stitch length though? Cuz it is fine at shorter spi

[Wizcrafts]

11 minutes ago, Sham said:

Is there any reason though that everything would change only at the longer stitch length though? Cuz it is fine at shorter spi

I can't do anything about you forgotten password, but I can offer a suggestion about the change in tension with longer stitches.

In effect, with all things being well balanced at short stitch lengths, when you make much longer stitches you draw more top thread than bottom thread and the top tension decreases somewhat. When this happens to me, if I can't reduce the bobbin tension any more, I move up one needle size. I also increase the throw of the check spring so the top thread is held taut longer.

[Sham]

Thank you @Wizcrafts & @Constabulary,

I was thinking a bigger needle might do it, but 25 was as big as I had w/ 277, I did put some thin thread on top but it broke..

the check spring, I’ve never adjusted, was thinking maybe that would help, cuz I have that automatic thread regulator tab thing, that says it’s for the purpose of adjusting to different thicknesses, but I don’t really understand. I’ll go fool with it a little more

[Sham]

Well, I don’t think adjusting the check spring did much, but I put 69 in the bobbin and top with a 25 needle and light tension through 9 oz. Veg and it worked fine, even with that tiny thread the big holes really weren’t that noticeable. Maybe. A 28 needle w/ 277?

[Wizcrafts]

7 hours ago, Sham said:

Well, I don’t think adjusting the check spring did much, but I put 69 in the bobbin and top with a 25 needle and light tension through 9 oz. Veg and it worked fine, even with that tiny thread the big holes really weren’t that noticeable. Maybe. A 28 needle w/ 277?

I use a #18 needle with v69 thread and a #25 with v277 thread. Your needle is the right size for 277. Something else is wrong. That something is either causing the top thread to lose tension on the upstroke, or the bottom thread is hanging up as the top thread goes around the shuttle and tries to pull it up. Watch the thread go around the shuttle and see if the bobbin thread is getting caught on the feed dog or its mechanism, or the hook itself on the way up.

[Sham]

@Wizcrafts, ok, I’ll see if I can make a video, and do some tests

[Constabulary]

17 hours ago, Constabulary said:

Post pictures of your threaded machine please.

I quote myself and please post pictures of your lower tension unit please

[Sham]

@Constabulary @Wizcrafts

ok, now it is really messed up, I messed with everything, switched springs on the tension assembly’s, raised and lowered the needle bar, foot bar, ..the timing seems ok still, but it’s now making loops snd knots on smaller stitches. I think I probably can get it back stitching thinner leather with smaller stitches. But it doesn’t want to do anything with belt leather. Here’s some video links, I’ll see if I can upload photos too.

 

[Sham]

[Constabulary]

I can´t see anything wrong in the pictures. But to me the tension spring on the lower tension unit looks kinda weak (not sure though). See picture of my tension unit. The wire of the beehive spring on my tension unit is  approx 1.8mm in diameter (have to check to be sure).

All guessing but maybe worth checking:

Are you wrapping the thread around the tension pulley / wheel? Meaning thread comes from the top tension then wrap completely it around the pulley? This is from a GA-5 Manual but the circled picture shows it quite good.

 

Are you sure all parts of the lower tension unit are present? I looks like this:

 

Also - please check the 2 discs / washers in the tension. They should have a flat side in the center hole. That ensures they do not rotate when the pulley spins. If the flat side it rounded (happens with the time) and they rotate you have less friction between the components and that can cause less tension on the thread.  See picture:

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Constabulary

[Wizcrafts]

In case anybody is curious why these old machines and current 441 clones have wheel disks on the bottom, it's a carry over from the days of waxed linen thread. The bottom roller didn't just roll with the thread. The big spring provides tension to resist rolling the wheel. While bonded/lubed thread moves semi freely around the wheel, waxed thread is grippy and that bottom roller actually has an impact on the top tension. That effect is much less with bonded and lubricated threads made today. But, if you wrap two full turns or more it does help fine tune the top tension. However, unlike the upper tension disks, that extra tension is never released when you need to pull the work away after the end of the stitch line.