You can't afford starting with leathercraft?

[tsunkasapa]

3 hours ago, sbrownn said:

Well now at least we know the real reason you won't buy anything from China; seems like it really has nothing to do with the quality of the product at all.

It never DID. But much of it IS inferior garbage.

Edited September 29, 2021 by tsunkasapa

[fredk]

Back to the original OP intro

When I started seriously in this leatherwork lark I used tools I had in my shed.

I fortunately had a large amount of odd tools. Plenty of hole punches, plenty of various knives, straight edges, squares. It was simply a matter of looking at a tool and seeing if it would do a job on leather

For cutting I used my old and trusty Stanley knife, (aka a box cutter knife?) (now owned for 52 years, but not the blade! & still used)  heavy duty shears and even tin-smiths shears.

For an awl I sharpened a wood working bradawl

I bought linen thread on wee cards at a haberdashers. 10m of thread with a needle for about £1 I got ready rivets at a shoe repair shop, at 20p each, very dear but then that was the only place I knew to get them

Skiving? never heard of it

I got my leather from a special recycling shop. There used to be places that companies could off-load their decent waste. It was sorted and schools and play-groups could take what they wanted for use in childrens' arts. They mostly ignored the leather. My wifey owned a children's nursery school so she went there often and brought me back bags full of leather. Writing this reminds me that I still have a couple of decent sized boxes full of it!

As time went on and I read more of Al Stohlman's  and other books the odd tools were changed to better quality proper leatherwork tools. Along the way I did buy some real rubbishy tools but they in turn were replaced. Some of those really crap tools came from the main names in leather work and some really good tools have come cheaply from 'no-name' places.

My first efforts were half-decent. Others in my medieval history presentation group were happy to buy the items and ordered more even though selling was not my intent. I was making kit for me & family primarily.

I'm the sort of person who strives to get as good as possible in as short a time as I can eg, I passed my motorcycle driving test in an August and by the following April I was an instructor & driving examiner, I took up Fencing and within 6 months I was good enough to represent N.I. in competitions.

Bad tools and skill will do a job. Good tools and skill will do a better job, or make the job easier

[mike02130]

On 9/29/2021 at 4:37 PM, tsunkasapa said:

It never DID. But much of it IS inferior garbage.

I Agree 100%.  Money spent in the USA stays in the USA.  At least most of it does.  I'd rather spend my money close to home.  It helps  my neighbor buy food, pay their rent and send their kids to college.  The money goes back into the American economy.  Then there is the large dereliction of worker's rights and environmental regulations and the large carbon footprint of being made in China.  Yes, it is nearly impossible to buy products not made in China, but I try my damndest.  One is better off buying 40 year old used items that will outlast the newer imports.  How about you UK guys that buy tools made in China that are labeled made in England? It is because they ship the finished tool to England and then Sheffield will attach  a handle.  How many Doc Martens employees lost their jobs when they started being Made in China?  Australians--how about the job and quality losses from Blundstone moving to China?  The landfills are full of cheap crap.  I'm happier  having fewer good items rather than a lot of crap items.  By the way, none of what I said has anything to do with US China politics.

[Klara]

I wonder how the Chinese forum menbers feel about all this anti-China sentiment... Personally, I couldn't care less where something was made as long as it's enough value for money. (I have a labeled "Made in US" dog frisbee from Kong that cost ten times as much as the Chinese no-name one but doesn't fly any better.) 

[Handstitched]

Aaaaaaanyway......

Back to the OP........again.

 

@fredk You took me on a trip down memory lane. I also used a ( non retractable)  ' Stanley' knife from my old fibreglass pool days ( still covered in f/glass) ) still have it, and use it.  For my  leather sewing awl....( don't laugh) I used a large  hand sewing needle, but covered the  'eye' end  with padded leather to help push it through leather , and not my fingers, but, it worked.  Still have it. I too bought thread on those ' wee cards' ....still have those too, geez   

In one of my old leather books from the 70's , you can make  stamping tools with old  large nails. Carefully grind a pattern  of choice on the head,cut the point off, and hey presto, stamping tool . Get an old  flat head screw driver , modify it, sharpen it to use a carving knife. Very  70's 'retro' , but,  it works.

 For the newbies that are budget conscious, its not necessary  to buy brand new tools. 

HS

[mike02130]

3 hours ago, Klara said:

I wonder how the Chinese forum menbers feel about all this anti-China sentiment

I suggest you put your mind at ease and ask them.   No one here is espousing anti-China sentiment.  Rather it is that China is known for copying, counterfeiting and producing cheap inferior products and having shoddy working and environmental conditions. That is a fact.

[sbrownn]

On 10/2/2021 at 5:24 AM, mike02130 said:

I suggest you put your mind at ease and ask them.   No one here is espousing anti-China sentiment.  Rather it is that China is known for copying, counterfeiting and producing cheap inferior products and having shoddy working and environmental conditions. That is a fact.

There is a lot of anti-China sentiment on this site that is not supported by actual facts. 

Many companies trade their trade "secrets" to the Chinese for access to their markets and that is their choice.  All countries workmanship is considered "shoddy" when they are first industrializing.  No better example than the Japan bashing after WWII.  Countries seek to fill markets that is within their capabilities to fill.  Prior to having their infrastructure destroyed in WWII the Japanese made absolutely great vehicles and products and that is why they made such a quick recovery after the war.  Just because a country makes low cost products to fill a market niche doesn't mean that they are "shoddy" workmen.  

Maybe you should take a closer look at the environmental regulations that US corporations avoid by manufacturing in foreign countries.   

[sbrownn]

On 9/29/2021 at 1:37 PM, tsunkasapa said:

It never DID. But much of it IS inferior garbage.

Only what you see in the stores.  What do you think you see in the Chinese stores of American made leather goods?  Many of the Chinese goods are made to fill the part of the American market that doesn't care about quality...which is quite large.  The Chinese were making high quality leatherwork 5000 years before America ever existed...do you think they have somehow have lost that skill set?

Edited October 7, 2021 by sbrownn
spelling

[Spyros]

In my experience with leather/wood/metal tools, I have concluded that IF I HAVE TO CHOOSE, I much prefer quantity over quality.   To word this better, I prefer variety over quality.  And to explain this even further with an example: 

I would rather have amateur level bandsaw, jig saw, fret saw, and scroll saw, and use the appropriate tool of the 4 for each job, rather than sink all my budget on a top quality band saw and try to put all all projects through it.   I can probably do all those jobs on a bandsaw if I must, and it will probably look crap, or I will lose a finger.  Having a wide range of tools so I can select the correct type of tool for the job is important for me, even if they're cheap.

An extreme example from leatherworking:  I'd rather have a cheap hardware benchtop press with a thousand dies and another thousand manual setters, so that I'm confident I can properly set ALL the hardware I might choose to use in the future, than have an excellent industrial floor standing electric rivet setter with only a couple of dies, and have to try and set all hardware through it.

When I say amateur tools, I never go rock bottom cheapest, like IKEA drills or home brand hardware store tools, because a lot of them are just completely useless (not all of them, but some are).  When I have the option I go one or two levels above that, somewhere between average price and rock bottom price.  

About woodworking specifically.  Keep in mind that woodworking has transitioned decades ago from a professional trade to a gentleman's hobby.  There are still professional carpenters and professional cabinet makers, but hardcore woodworkers (the type who cuts dovetails on a woodworking bench and makes jewelry boxes and handmade furniture) are almost exclusively amateurs with money and time.  These guys are tool proud and care equally about the result and the process and how their tools look and feel and sound and smell, and are permanently in some stage of upgrading , often just for the sake of upgrading.  And specialised woodworking shops sell them expensive stuff accordingly.  Don't get sucked in.  

Now, overtime, in every craft, and with lots of use, it becomes apparent that some cheap tools just don't cut it.  They have to be replaced too often, or the result is not great, or they need too much maintenance.  IF and when you get to that stage, and only then, is the right time to buy a good quality tool for that specific job. But that depends what you are actually doing, and how often you're doing it.  And therefore it's a different tool for everybody that you have to upgrade, and you will never know which one it is for you that you have to upgrade until you put in the hours.

What Nigel Armitage says makes sense, because he's a teacher, and he knows exactly what it is that he will ask you to do, and how often, and how intensively, and what is the expected quality of the outcome.  So in his students case he already knows exactly which tool it is that has to be above average.  But in every other scenario you'll have to find all that out for yourself, with time and use.  You might find you passion (or even your profession) in making nothing but dog collars all day, you will need a top notch strap cutter!

 

All that is in my opinion of course, your mileage may vary

Edited October 8, 2021 by Spyros

[Spyros]

The Chinese will make you what you pay for.  We collectively have an insatiable appetite for cheap crap, so they make us cheap crap.

They also make iphones, DJI drones, high speed trains and some high end industrial, telco and military equipment, if you can afford it.  China has a very long history or innovation going back thousand of years, so I think they deserve some respect.  Historically they were ahead of the world for a very long time and it looks like they're slowly coming back in a big way.

I got some awesome stuff from Kemovan craft and Kevin Lee and it compares really well to anything you want to compare it to.  It was cheap-er, but it definitely wasnt cheap.  High quality products out of China are getting more expensive by the year.  The world is changing.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Spyros