A liitle change to make a BIG differance on Cowboy sewing machines

[RockyAussie]

The Cowboy CB4500,3500 and 3200 narrow needle plate and feed dog set.

Why was it developed?

A few years back I decided that I wanted a cylinder machine that could handle a wide range of threads (particularly thick) with a large bobbin that could hold a lot. Smaller machines I have could do thread up to 138 (20m) but with that size thread in the bobbin I may only get 1 or 2 belts done before the bobbin needed loading again. Also the thickness of the job would often be more than desirable for the machine to handle. I managed to get a Cowboy CB4500 from our local dealer at the time and found the machine could do large jobs like tool pouches and such with no trouble but..........when I thought I could do smaller weight projects like wallets I was sadly mistaken. The large needle plate hole and wide feed dog allowed the job to be pushed down into the hole if I wanted to get closer to the edge than about 5mm and it would make a mess of any edging that was done prior to be stitched.

 I was approached by the local correctional centre about this time to make up for them an improved stronger personal alarm pouch and the numbers were pretty significant. I went ahead and designed a good pattern and proceeded to put it into production. Here is a picture of the finished article –

Everything went well up until the stitching stage. The best way to do the job was to get all of the edging done first before the stitching and that is what I did.

I knew when I was doing it that the job was going up and down a lot and was very difficult to control but I did not take enough notice of the edging at the time.. This picture below was by no means the worst one but just an average one after the stitching. “Golly” I said (perhaps something stronger and shorter to be honest) This was going to take a lotta fixin

On a close inspection I found the reason. This belt strip shows that at the start of the strip as the needle enters the job all looks good.

Then as the needle goes back with the dog foot and the dog foot descends the belt strip lowers down into the hole as well.

The sharp edge of the needle plate was tearing up the edging every time the dog foot went down as it got to the back of the hole.

 This set me onto a path to find some way to get this machine to behave the way I wanted.

After a year or more later and a good deal of development time with the new Cowboy sewing machine dealers here in Australia (Good people) this is what we came up with.

A narrow needle plate which has a narrower hole in it than the original and also been reshaped to improve tighter curve stitching like gussets. The narrow feed dog gives the advantage of assisting the needle to be guided at all times through its motion whilst the feet are down. This means the stitches are less likely to miss and revering is now more accurate at lining up the stitches. Previously a narrow slotted needle plate was provided but that involved having to take out the dog foot altogether and at the cost of an unreliable stitch length at times, especially in reverse.

This shows the original needle plate hole width in metric (8.75mm)    and the next in English (.344 of an inch)                                                                                                         

This next picture shows the new needle plate hole in metric (5.54mm) and following that the English size (.218 of an inch)

Due to file size limits on loading here I will follow this up a bit later with a link to a couple of video's I have done showing off the improved capability given with this new set as well as some practical use pictures I have taken whilst making some of our products.

 

[Spyros]

That's very interesting, thank you.  I'm pretty much sold on one of those machines but I have to discover some solution to make room first, my tiny workshop is full to the brim.

Unrelated comment but I'm impressed you bothered yourself with edge finishing considering the customer and the nature of the product.

[RockyAussie]

OK back again with the video links -

and another -

and here are just a few of the practical use products this set has enabled me to do.

[Spyros]

^those are perfect, I'd struggle to tell them apart from hand stitched. 

The last one has some machine marks but nothing that will not probably disappear on its own over time.

[RockyAussie]

3 minutes ago, Spyros said:

That's very interesting, thank you.  I'm pretty much sold on one of those machines but I have to discover some solution to make room first, my tiny workshop is full to the brim

You can get these on the short table that comes with castors and I find they are quite easy to wheel and pack out of the ways when not in use. If you can't fit it in then you must be holding onto less important stuff toooo much

 

7 minutes ago, Spyros said:

Unrelated comment but I'm impressed you bothered yourself with edge finishing considering the customer and the nature of the product.

They are chrome tan mate and you know I only do quality work. I do get some pretty good sales from the workers there and I like to think they should get a bit of quality at least now and then.

[RockyAussie]

7 hours ago, Spyros said:

Those are perfect, I'd struggle to tell them apart from hand stitched. 

You probably have not seen how bad my hand stitching can be then I am still taking this as a compliment and thank you

 

[Spyros]

5 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

You can get these on the short table that comes with castors and I find they are quite easy to wheel and pack out of the ways when not in use. If you can't fit it in then you must be holding onto less important stuff toooo much

Yeah, I'm holding on to woodworking.  And with every day that passes, I'm wondering more and more why.

[Constabulary]

I´m not a 441 type machine user but always interested in developments...

Have you tried the "needle feed only" throat pates (w/o feed dog) for the 441 type machines? Wasn´t there a video just recently? How would they perform in your business?

[Rylando]

This is awesome!!! I’ve been so frustrated with my CB3200 for exactly this reason! It sucks down the edges and totally screws things up, it’s had me so frustrated I’ve almost sold it. 
 

How do I get one? I’m in Texas USA and have to have one! Lol. 

[Squilchuck]

Will it work on a Cobra 4?  -John

[dikman]

I've already ordered one. Jess just sent me the invoice so now it's a matter of Australia Post deciding how long they decide to take to get it here.

This is probably the quickest I've ever bought something without thinking about it first. It looks like it will make the big 4500 a much more useful machine overall. What size thread/needle were you using on the wallets?

[garypl]

I received the set I bought a few weeks ago and it works great!  Delivery to the USA took a couple of weeks.  

I have sewed some 2-3 oz pieces as well as some totaling 20 oz and everything ran like a charm.  Nice addition to my CB4500 and thanks again to Brian for developing the set.

Gary

[RockyAussie]

19 hours ago, Constabulary said:

I´m not a 441 type machine user but always interested in developments...

Have you tried the "needle feed only" throat pates (w/o feed dog) for the 441 type machines? Wasn´t there a video just recently? How would they perform in your business?

I have. The time to take out the feed dog and put it back later is a major time waste. The job being stitched is a lot better with the dog foot in action especially when wanting the reverse stitches to line up correctly. The standard narrow plate means that the job has to be fed by only the needle and top centre foot and that means also the more foot pressure required the harder it is to get the job to move/slide along the needle plate in a reliable stitch length. 

[RockyAussie]

14 hours ago, Rylando said:

This is awesome!!! I’ve been so frustrated with my CB3200 for exactly this reason! It sucks down the edges and totally screws things up, it’s had me so frustrated I’ve almost sold it. 
 

How do I get one? I’m in Texas USA and have to have one! Lol. 

No problem. I will send you a pm shortly with details and a link. (you are not the only one I have seen over time make a comment about wanting to sell for this reason and here and there they have just given up the leather work altogether.) If this saves even just a few from going that way I will feel all my efforts worthwhile.

[RockyAussie]

2 hours ago, garypl said:

I received the set I bought a few weeks ago and it works great!  Delivery to the USA took a couple of weeks.  

I have sewed some 2-3 oz pieces as well as some totaling 20 oz and everything ran like a charm.  Nice addition to my CB4500 and thanks again to Brian for developing the set.

Gary

Thanks @garypl.  I have just received another great report back yesterday as follows - "Here is your feed dog and throat plate on my cb4500,  sewing a zipper in cloth with #92 thread and a #19 needle." He is happy and may do a video on it soon. I would love to know how much length of thread that size would go onto one of those bobbins? Probably gonna be a lot more bobbin sales too I guess.

[RockyAussie]

13 hours ago, Squilchuck said:

Will it work on a Cobra 4?  -John

I believe it would but I can not say for certain. If you want to try it out pm me and I will be happy to do what I can.

[RockyAussie]

4 hours ago, dikman said:

I've already ordered one. Jess just sent me the invoice so now it's a matter of Australia Post deciding how long they decide to take to get it here.

This is probably the quickest I've ever bought something without thinking about it first. It looks like it will make the big 4500 a much more useful machine overall. What size thread/needle were you using on the wallets?

Good to hear mate. The thread size is 138 (20m) with a NM160 size 23 LR Schmetz needle. Note: I don't think it is possible to get any leather point needles any smaller than the size 23 only the fabric point needle go smaller I believe.

[dikman]

Being able to use #138 on the big machine would be great, anything smaller and I would use the Seiko anyway. I'll give the sewing machine place here a call and see if they have any needles in that size, otherwise it's onto ebay. I knew you were working on this little project but wasn't aware it was a done thing. Good job, cobber.

Oh yeah, I'm going to need more bobbins too!

Edited October 31, 2021 by dikman

[Spyros]

1 hour ago, RockyAussie said:

Good to hear mate. The thread size is 138 (20m) with a NM160 size 23 LR Schmetz needle. Note: I don't think it is possible to get any leather point needles any smaller than the size 23 only the fabric point needle go smaller I believe.

Thats like 0.4mm thread... can it do double that thickness?

[dikman]

What I forgot to ask is what's the thickest thread this combination will handle?

[RockyAussie]

4 hours ago, Spyros said:

Thats like 0.4mm thread... can it do double that thickness?

Waaay more.

 

3 hours ago, dikman said:

What I forgot to ask is what's the thickest thread this combination will handle?

#69 to #415 or in metric 40m to 7m. I have not myself used any thing over #277 (metric 10) so I can not say with certainty yet. 

[dikman]

Excellent! That covers everything I have! It will be close to the Holy Grail of sewing machines - one machine that can do it all.

I can see me getting a lot more use out of the machine now.

[Gymnast]

9 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

#69 to #415 or in metric 40m to 7m. I have not myself used any thing over #277 (metric 10) so I can not say with certainty yet. 

Now I start to wonder why the original design of the needle plate got the hole so much wider than this new design?

[dikman]

I suspect the original design called for a heavy duty stitcher and sewing light material was not part of their remit. After all, Juki also have a range of machines to suit lighter materials, if needed..

As for fitting a Cobra 4, I'd be very surprised if it didn't fit, as the clones are just that, clones of the original Juki so I would expect most parts should be interchangeable.

[Wizcrafts]

1 hour ago, Gymnast said:

Now I start to wonder why the original design of the needle plate got the hole so much wider than this new design?

I think that when Juki designed the TSC-441 they marketed it for companies that sewed buffing wheels, car wash cloths and other thick items that would need very thick thread. The hole in the so-called blanket feed dog, part of the blanket foot set, allows for up to a number 27 needle (for #415 bonded or 6 cord linen thread). When the Chinese cloned the Japanese 441, they copied the feed dog hole in the blanket set,  but elongated it into an oval slot in the smooth top leather feed dog. Most people buying a new Cowboy, Cobra, or Techsew 441 clone will receive the blanket set with their machine. I got it with my Cowboy CB4500 and one of my best friends got it with his Cobra Class 4.