Singer 97-10

[TheDavidLeathermanShow]

Hello all,

I have come across a singer 97–10 for sale locally in a shop sell off. The machine looks like it is in pretty decent shape.

I have seen a lot of topics on issues finding needles and such for this machine back in the early 2000’s but my question is has any of that changed since then? Are parts available for these any more than they were then. It seems extremely heavy duty and the shop made saddles and tack and that’s something I’d like to try my hand at. The machine comes with bobbins, needles, different presser feet, spare parts, and a couple manual/ parts books.

any input is greatly appreciated on this old beast of a machine.

thanks,

dave

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

I don't know much about the 97-10s, but I see a Landis #1 in the background, plus a bobbin winder, that I'd take ahead of the 97-10.  As old and obsolete at the #1 is, I think parts and needles are more easily available. But I could be wrong.

[TheDavidLeathermanShow]

Thanks for the input, honestly I don’t know what they’re worth but I may buy both the 97-10 and the landis

[DrmCa]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the needle system of 97-10 is 7-4. They are about $20-25 a pack and come in 23-25 sizes.

[TheDavidLeathermanShow]

I’m going to look at these machines this evening, I know not a thing about them other than I love old iron and want them haha

[CowboyBob]

12 hours ago, BigSiouxSaddlery said:

I don't know much about the 97-10s, but I see a Landis #1 in the background, plus a bobbin winder, that I'd take ahead of the 97-10.  As old and obsolete at the #1 is, I think parts and needles are more easily available. But I could be wrong.

I'll agree with you,as long as the Landis 1 has a good shuttle and tension spring on it anything else that could be wrong can be fixed easily,the 97 is a different story the parts in it have alot of machining to them & would be hard to make.

[TheDavidLeathermanShow]

Hey Bob,

I am going around 5pm this evening to take a look at these machines and other items in this leather shop liquidation sale.

how does one know if the shuttle is good? And tension spring? What do I look for/at ??

I’ve been into leather working for a few years now but I’m just to the point that hand sewing big projects is for the birds and now am getting into machines. I literally know very little about sewing machines but I do a lot of mechanical work, and without tooting my own horn I am great at taking things apart and repairing them I just need to know what worn parts to look for? 

also the leather shop liquidation sale is due to a local fella passing away about a month ago. So the equipment has been  in a heated shop and used frequently up until about 4 months ago. Although they may be a bit dusty , there’s hardly any corrosion

thanks 

dave

[DrmCa]

2 hours ago, TheDavidLeathermanShow said:

how does one know if the shuttle is good?

If it stitches, then it is good. This is no rocket science. Visually inspect for wear and sew a few leathers.

Hopefully there will be little wear on this slow machine as opposed to high-speed textile machines on which the thread literally grinds groves into parts.

Unfortunately this is not a guarantee against parts breaking down the road, which is possible due to the age.

[TheDavidLeathermanShow]

Thanks drmca 

when bob mentions tension spring, is that referring to the spring on the take up lever?

[CowboyBob]

1 hour ago, TheDavidLeathermanShow said:

Thanks drmca 

when bob mentions tension spring, is that referring to the spring on the take up lever?

Landis 1 has a good shuttle and tension spring on it,it's on the shuttle so when you pull on the thread from the bobbin it should have some tension on it.

[Wizcrafts]

3 hours ago, TheDavidLeathermanShow said:

Thanks drmca 

when bob mentions tension spring, is that referring to the spring on the take up lever?

You have a long road ahead of you as a newbie to industrial sewing machines. You might want to start by searching Google for a military operations manual for the 97-10.

[TheDavidLeathermanShow]

Will do wiz

thanks

[Cumberland Highpower]

If you're looking for a decent machine and don't have one, buy the 97. it will probably not go high.   1k maybe.  Looks like it's been used, threaded up, etc. looks clean from what I can tell.

If it's in good shape, you'll never wear it out.  (You sound like a hobby type user).  Who cares about parts, in this case.  There are some needles that can be used, if i remember either cut down or adjust the needle bar a bit. 

I believe the shuttle is the standard Singer 45k/Adler 105 type.  Probably widely available. I doubt it's worn out as it sits...

No way I'd buy a Landis 1 over a 97.   I think the Landis 1 is pretty neat and is a great display piece.....But that's about it. Only collectors and Swartzentrubers buy those these days.

 

[TheDavidLeathermanShow]

Quick update guys,

I went and looked at these machines tonight and got the full scoop. The shop consisted of a father and daughter, the father passed and the daughter is auctioning off everything and retiring. She is still running the shop til the end of the week, the machines have been used daily since they opened in 1959.

the machines come with a plethora of new parts in package and old parts in a separate box/crate plenty of everything (needles,bobbins,thread)

highpower I am a hobbyist and new to machines, I do not know the names of everything but I’m learning with the help of this forum. I collect antiques and love anything with mechanical workings. I have plenty of experience in restoration work. If parts are available or a part can be used to copy my neighbor owns a machine shop and usually charges me case of beer and a pizza.

the story on the 97-10 I was told tonight I’d like to share. Her father bought the machine used from an army post in 1967 when he left the military he was able to purchase it. Her dad used it to start the leather shop that is for sale to date.
She fired up the old 97 and it  sounded soo smooth and was extremely quite for such a large machine. I got my hands in there and sewed a couple layers of skirting scrap and it was a dream! So smooth, felt comfortable and the stitches on both sides looked fantastic. She explained to me she had three more belts to make and finish up a set of saddlebags and she was done for good!

truly an amazing experience running that old 97 tonight!

 

 

[DrmCa]

So... Did you end up buying anything?

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

2 hours ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

No way I'd buy a Landis 1 over a 97.   I think the Landis 1 is pretty neat and is a great display piece.....But that's about it. Only collectors and Swartzentrubers buy those these days.

Lol, well I'm somewhat of a collector but definitely no Swartzentruber.  However, I DID sew a set of round reins on one of my Landis 1s today, and have two more pair fitted up to sew tomorrow.  I'm running 207 top and bottom with an original old stock number 6 needle and the correct size old stock bushing. I also have a set of harness tugs to sew on it, (with a heavier thread and needle of course) as soon as I get to them.   I have many other heavy stitchers, some vintage, some newer, but some things I still prefer to sew on a #1.  Most people familiar with the #1 wouldn't even believe me if I showed them some of the work I've done on one. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by BigSiouxSaddlery

[TheDavidLeathermanShow]

It was a preview tonight, the auction is Saturday morning but I am going to try and buy both the 97-10 and the landis 1 and there is 2 more ancient cylinder arm singers that if they go for a decent price I’ll buy them as well

[dikman]

All the best at the auction, I hope you do well.

[Cumberland Highpower]

9 hours ago, BigSiouxSaddlery said:

Lol, well I'm somewhat of a collector but definitely no Swartzentruber.  However, I DID sew a set of round reins on one of my Landis 1s today, and have two more pair fitted up to sew tomorrow.  I'm running 207 top and bottom with an original old stock number 6 needle and the correct size old stock bushing. I also have a set of harness tugs to sew on it, (with a heavier thread and needle of course) as soon as I get to them.   I have many other heavy stitchers, some vintage, some newer, but some things I still prefer to sew on a #1.  Most people familiar with the #1 wouldn't even believe me if I showed them some of the work I've done on one. 

I have no doubt you  can do some good work on one.   If you have a chance, post some photos of your stitching/work here.  

I've always preferred hook and awl machines in leather for the slight improvement in stitch quality.    I find the Landis 1 just too slow for any kind of productivity, and the bed too flat for small objects to be easily manipulated.   (Holsters, etc).   I don't make tack, so I know surprisingly little there.  Sometimes I find my Randalls frustratingly slow.  I find those to be the easiest to use and make the best stitch of anything I have.   anything with more than a foot of stitching in any run goes on my UL's....
 

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

11 hours ago, Cumberland Highpower said:

I have no doubt you  can do some good work on one.   If you have a chance, post some photos of your stitching/work here.  

I've always preferred hook and awl machines in leather for the slight improvement in stitch quality.    I find the Landis 1 just too slow for any kind of productivity, and the bed too flat for small objects to be easily manipulated.   (Holsters, etc).   I don't make tack, so I know surprisingly little there.  Sometimes I find my Randalls frustratingly slow.  I find those to be the easiest to use and make the best stitch of anything I have.   anything with more than a foot of stitching in any run goes on my UL's....
 

I have tried many times to post pictures to this site, and no matter what I do, I can't get them to post.  There are probably some pictures associated with my old account, under the same name.  I got locked out and never could get back in.  Even the admins couldn't get me in. 

Yes the #1 s are slow.  Sometimes that is an advantage. I sewed on a #1 exclusively for the first 15 years in business.  But I did eventually upgrade, for various reasons.  I have two Randalls, a UL, a Landis 3, a Landis 16, a cowboy 4500, plus others. The #1 is more forgiving of different types of thread than any of the others, including the 4500.  It also requires less tinkering than any of the needle and awl machines.  I can put a knife in it to cut a channel and hide the bottom stitches, which I do on my harness traces. Some of the other machines have that capability, but I don't have knives for the others.  I won't argue that there is no machine that can compare to the stitch made on a properly set up hook and awl machine, especially a Randall.  But sometimes they can make a person pull their hair out in frustration trying to figure out why it went from sewing fine to not sewing.  They all have their place, that's why I own so many, plus I just like machinery.  

[Northmount]

22 hours ago, BigSiouxSaddlery said:

I have tried many times to post pictures to this site, and no matter what I do, I can't get them to post.  There are probably some pictures associated with my old account, under the same name.  I got locked out and never could get back in.  Even the admins couldn't get me in. 

@BigSiouxSaddlery  Some info here that might be of help, several options for resizing.  https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/15122-how-to-post-pictures-on-lw/?do=findComment&comment=551171

 

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

14 hours ago, Northmount said:

@BigSiouxSaddlery  Some info here that might be of help, several options for resizing.  https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/15122-how-to-post-pictures-on-lw/?do=findComment&comment=551171

 

Thank you Tom. I've tried resizing, and even when below the required size I still get the message that they are above the required size.

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, BigSiouxSaddlery said:

Thank you Tom. I've tried resizing, and even when below the required size I still get the message that they are above the required size.

I can show you how to further reduce the size or quality to get the photo withing our limits. But, I need to get some answers first.

1. Are you using a hand-held device, or a computer?
2. If a computer, is the operating system Microsoft Windows or something else?
3. What app or program did you use to resize it?
4. What is the size in pixels you got it down to (width x length)?
5. What is the file size after reduction (in mb)?
6. If you are running a Windows computer, I can explain how you can use the FastStone Photo Resizer to reduce the dimensions and quality.

[RockyAussie]

11 hours ago, BigSiouxSaddlery said:

Thank you Tom. I've tried resizing, and even when below the required size I still get the message that they are above the required size.

Just a note on this point. I have found if I try and load an over size picture it will not work to delete it and then try and put in the smaller picture size. It still tells you it is too big. I have found that you have to drop that posting go out of it then reopen and start again with the smaller picture and then it works. Sometimes if your quick it will remember all your words but allow the smaller picture to work.

[Northmount]

25 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

Just a note on this point. I have found if I try and load an over size picture it will not work to delete it and then try and put in the smaller picture size. It still tells you it is too big. I have found that you have to drop that posting go out of it then reopen and start again with the smaller picture and then it works. Sometimes if your quick it will remember all your words but allow the smaller picture to work.

That's really good information to know.  Thank you for passing it on.