Black Jack

[fredk]

Frodo posted something earlier and deleted it 

A sort of sap, aka a cosh, was used by the Normans at the Battle of Hastings [1066]. They can be seen on the Bayeux Tapestry [approx 1070s] The thing is always over-looked, unless you know its there. 

The Romans, [500 BC to 500 AD] certainly used 'saps' in battle

In early Medieval times a weighted leather bag attached to a wood handle was used by Churchmen who went into battle. Churchmen were not forbidden in killing but they could not shed blood, so the swingy sap was useful.

The only time I ever used a weighted 'weapon' was when I was a postman. A lead bar wrapped in newspaper. To 'gently' tap certain dogs on the snout or head if they attacked me. The owners thought I was using a non-harmful newspaper, but the dogs knew and learnt differently

[mrwatch]

I seen a "sap" for sale in a local antique mall booth. Made in Detroit Mich. years ago. Legal to sell? Local auctioneer is smart, sells a book of matches and give you the questionable object. 

[chuck123wapati]

3 hours ago, JayEhl said:

It is a Swingline after all.... 

 

2 hours ago, DrmCa said:

Just don't do it in front of Canadian RCMP!

it was actually taught to our office staff and councilors during the annual self defense training.

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

Frodo posted something earlier and deleted it 

A sort of sap, aka a cosh, was used by the Normans at the Battle of Hastings [1066]. They can be seen on the Bayeux Tapestry [approx 1070s] The thing is always over-looked, unless you know its there. 

The Romans, [500 BC to 500 AD] certainly used 'saps' in battle

In early Medieval times a weighted leather bag attached to a wood handle was used by Churchmen who went into battle. Churchmen were not forbidden in killing but they could not shed blood, so the swingy sap was useful.

The only time I ever used a weighted 'weapon' was when I was a postman. A lead bar wrapped in newspaper. To 'gently' tap certain dogs on the snout or head if they attacked me. The owners thought I was using a non-harmful newspaper, but the dogs knew and learnt differently

I love the history! The native Americans  carried a coup stick, most had a big rock on them.  it was believed that touching a live opponent in battle was as great or greater feat than killing an opponent so they used the weapon to count coup . 

[Frodo]

4 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

I love the history! The native Americans  carried a coup stick, most had a big rock on them.  it was believed that touching a live opponent in battle was as great or greater feat than killing an opponent so they used the weapon to count coup . 

Among the Plains Indians of North America, counting coup is the warrior tradition of winning prestige against an enemy in battle. It is one of the traditional ways of showing bravery in the face of an enemy and involves intimidating him, and, it is hoped, persuading him to admit defeat, without having to kill him

[chrisash]

What you actually need is a walking stick like the traditional  Irish Shillelagh, far more useful made of heavy Blackthorn

https://www.walkingsticks.co.uk/blackthorn-irish-shillelagh.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAraSPBhDuARIsAM3Js4qplFTizJqsovAZ6I-phnjBm4MYv9m1tDx0jXFXhv5gdTOyb9LTE2caAkdDEALw_wcB 

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

I love the history! The native Americans  carried a coup stick, most had a big rock on them.  it was believed that touching a live opponent in battle was as great or greater feat than killing an opponent so they used the weapon to count coup . 

i misspoke a coup stick and a war club , the one  with a big big rock, are different, A war club could be used to count coup as well as a spear , bow, stick  or the hand. But the using only the coup stick in battle was the greatest deed.

[fredk]

There are tribes in Papua New Guinea who have given up killing each in raids for brides. The two tribes meet on a 'battle field' and one side 'attacks' first using bamboo sticks. The attacker has to tap the woman's defenders on the shoulder. If he wins he gets his bride. But the choice of bride has been arranged by the tribes' elders beforehand. Its all rather civilised. They call the bamboo stick a coupe stick as well.

[chuck123wapati]

20 hours ago, fredk said:

There are tribes in Papua New Guinea who have given up killing each in raids for brides. The two tribes meet on a 'battle field' and one side 'attacks' first using bamboo sticks. The attacker has to tap the woman's defenders on the shoulder. If he wins he gets his bride. But the choice of bride has been arranged by the tribes' elders beforehand. Its all rather civilised. They call the bamboo stick a coupe stick as well.

you might like this read. https://anthrosource.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1525/aa.1910.12.2.02a00080

[Samalan]

Don't use  wasp spray you will end up in a world of trouble just use mace.

[Frodo]

I had a Co worker who did not bathe,  I sprayed him with Lysol every time he came within 5ft of me,   It took him 3 days to get the hint

My nostrils matter !!!!!!

34 minutes ago, Samalan said:

Don't use  wasp spray you will end up in a world of trouble just use mace.

 

[fredk]

2 hours ago, Samalan said:

Don't use  wasp spray you will end up in a world of trouble just use mace.

Quite the opposite in N.I.     Mace and pepper spray are illegal but wasp spray is not. Two real cases, years apart; a woman was assaulted, she used a household cleaner spray on her attacker, she had it her shopping. She was commended for quick thinking. Another woman assaulted used pepper spray on her attacker. She was charged for having the pepper spray illegally. btw, in both cases the attacker was charged over the attack.

[Frodo]

45 minutes ago, fredk said:

Quite the opposite in N.I.     Mace and pepper spray are illegal but wasp spray is not. Two real cases, years apart; a woman was assaulted, she used a household cleaner spray on her attacker, she had it her shopping. She was commended for quick thinking. Another woman assaulted used pepper spray on her attacker. She was charged for having the pepper spray illegally. btw, in both cases the attacker was charged over the attack.

I think you might want to take another look at the federal laws.  I could be wrong. But using a pesticide  is a felony

AW SHAT,   you are not in the states. NEVER MIND

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Frodo

[Samalan]

On 1/21/2022 at 4:43 PM, Frodo said:

I think you might want to take another look at the federal laws.  I could be wrong. But using a pesticide  is a felony

AW SHAT,   you are not in the states. NEVER MIND

 

 

Frodo Frodo Frodo LOL that's a good one.

[Samalan]

On 1/21/2022 at 4:03 PM, fredk said:

Quite the opposite in N.I.     Mace and pepper spray are illegal but wasp spray is not. Two real cases, years apart; a woman was assaulted, she used a household cleaner spray on her attacker, she had it her shopping. She was commended for quick thinking. Another woman assaulted used pepper spray on her attacker. She was charged for having the pepper spray illegally. btw, in both cases the attacker was charged over the attack.

Well there you go then permanently blinding someone with oven cleaner or something of that sort would be the best deterrent I agree I wonder why we go with the temporary blindness stuff that has all that infrared tracking dye that don't wash off  and all that good stuff in it you can use it for an attacking dog's to. Are those attackers that were charged sent to a prison for the blind .  LOL

[327fed]

How about a police baton? I got a cheap one after a non lethal self defense course at work. Even have a card saying I was trained in head bustin. Carry it for my neighbors dogs plus pistol. 

[fredk]

Whist you lot were adopting her catch-phrase we wuz adopting this one

 

[Viking]

On 1/17/2022 at 5:35 PM, Dwight said:

I'd rather get caught with a .380 in my pocket than that here In Ohio.

I can get a CCW for the .380 . . . I'll be talking to the judge (s)  if I'm caught with that thing of yours.

May God bless,

Dwight

Spot on.  In Ohio, we have a Concealed Handgun License  CHL.  Which means just that - a concealed handgun. Anything else concealed “as a weapon” violates the Ohio statute. My pocket knife or fixed blade knife is always carried as a tool. Know your local laws.  

Edited January 24, 2022 by Viking

[kiwican]

On 1/20/2022 at 8:13 AM, DrmCa said:

What you miss is that good people in the US are under tremendous pressure from the scum of the world sneaking into their country. No other country in this world is overrun by millions of illegal aliens with no concept of law and order from crime-ridden countries. US people are wise to carry and entitled to that.

And slap-jack is a less-than-lethal alternative for keeping the scum of the world in line. Do you prefer them just being shot instead? I would, but you probably don't.

I'm all for armed and safe and a huge fan of the 2nd amendment. However your statement implies that everyone taking a run at the boarder is a hardened criminal intent on crime in the USA, while a percentage of those trying to get in are criminals and are trying to take advantage I find it pretty hard to believe that 5 year olds offer the threat to the US that your statement implies. The majority of people just want a better life. I also have to state that applying for legal entry is the way to go. Or better yet clean up your own country and make it safe for everyone. 

As to your statement that you would prefer to shoot them? shoot who, all the illegals trying to get into the USA? 

[kiwican]

On 1/20/2022 at 8:13 AM, DrmCa said:

What you miss is that good people in the US are under tremendous pressure from the scum of the world sneaking into their country. No other country in this world is overrun by millions of illegal aliens with no concept of law and order from crime-ridden countries. US people are wise to carry and entitled to that.

And slap-jack is a less-than-lethal alternative for keeping the scum of the world in line. Do you prefer them just being shot instead? I would, but you probably don't.

I'm all for armed and safe and a huge fan of the 2nd amendment. However your statement implies that everyone taking a run at the boarder is a hardened criminal intent on crime in the USA, while a percentage of those trying to get in are criminals and are trying to take advantage I find it pretty hard to believe that 5 year olds offer the threat to the US that your statement implies. The majority of people just want a better life. I also have to state that applying for legal entry is the way to go. Or better yet clean up your own country and make it safe for everyone. 

As to your statement that you would prefer to shoot them? shoot who, all the illegals trying to get into the USA? 

On 1/18/2022 at 11:03 PM, Frodo said:

i was bored so I made a couple more

 

 

 

Great job on the sap! I'm a huge fan 

[DrmCa]

1 hour ago, kiwican said:

However your statement implies that everyone taking a run at the boarder is a hardened criminal intent on crime in the US

Nope, I was not generalizing at all. It was not my intent to imply that. I was only specifically referring to the scum of the world.

Besides that, one has to consider long-term demographic effects of illegal immigration: high probability of poverty and ghettoization that in the subsequent generations cause high risk of 2nd+ generation youths leading criminal lifestyle. Border controls that had existed, until recently, in most developed nations kept tabs on that. US does not have border controls for many decades now. US authorities do not know who enters their country, so you especially have no way of knowing it. They may be ISIS operatives, Taliban sympathizers, Moro fighters, Somalian and Nigerian pirates, Columbian cartel executioners, drug mules, or whoever else imaginable.

No control means no way of knowing who comes and goes. So it is irresponsible to assert that everyone who crosses the border are good, hardworking individuals.

Edited January 25, 2022 by DrmCa

[fredk]

2 hours ago, kiwican said:

. . .  I find it pretty hard to believe that 5 year olds offer the threat to the US that your statement implies.. . . .

ya wanna bet? not directly, but indirectly

Its been revealed in the last few days that eastern europeans are grooming children as young as 3 years old and sending them as 'refugees' to the UK for the illegal child sex trade

The child is sent to UK. Under World Refugee Laws unaccompanied children must be accepted. No sooner than the child is known to be in the UK a 'relative' shows up to claim guardianship of the child

The child is not at fault in this vile business. They are being used by evil people. And those people are undermining the morals of our societies

[kiwican]

2 hours ago, DrmCa said:

Nope, I was not generalizing at all. It was not my intent to imply that. I was only specifically referring to the scum of the world.

Besides that, one has to consider long-term demographic effects of illegal immigration: high probability of poverty and ghettoization that in the subsequent generations cause high risk of 2nd+ generation youths leading criminal lifestyle. Border controls that had existed, until recently, in most developed nations kept tabs on that. US does not have border controls for many decades now. US authorities do not know who enters their country, so you especially have no way of knowing it. They may be ISIS operatives, Taliban sympathizers, Moro fighters, Somalian and Nigerian pirates, Columbian cartel executioners, drug mules, or whoever else imaginable.

No control means no way of knowing who comes and goes. So it is irresponsible to assert that everyone who crosses the border are good, hardworking individuals.

First of all, read what I wrote. I very clearly stated that I'm against illegal immigration. Second, I did not say they were all hardworking individuals. I said they aren't all "scum of the world" or as you point out,  "ISIS operatives, Taliban sympathizers, Moro fighters, Somalian and Nigerian pirates, Columbian cartel executioners, drug mules, or whoever else imaginable".

 

[kiwican]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

ya wanna bet? not directly, but indirectly

Its been revealed in the last few days that eastern europeans are grooming children as young as 3 years old and sending them as 'refugees' to the UK for the illegal child sex trade

The child is sent to UK. Under World Refugee Laws unaccompanied children must be accepted. No sooner than the child is known to be in the UK a 'relative' shows up to claim guardianship of the child

The child is not at fault in this vile business. They are being used by evil people. And those people are undermining the morals of our societies

Yes, I want to bet on that. You cannot compared a victimized child to a criminal. The child isn't the threat. The assholes that are trafficking them are the threat.  

[Leescustomleather]

On 1/20/2022 at 8:47 AM, Frodo said:

wasp spray is a fantastic idea

Wasp spray does not work on humans, It works on exoskeletal insects by plugging the small holes called spiracles that they breathe through. But you could still be charged with assault and what excuse could you give for carrying a can of wasp spray? Just an urban legend, at least the Raid brand that was tested.