katsass

Vaalpens, after reading my suggestion to you about Stohlman's book, it seems (to me) as though my response sounds something like that which came from a northbound horse's south end -- It definitely as not meant in that tone. I just feel that the information contained in old Al's books would be of great assistance to you as you progress with your endeavors. The information is not only written in a way that even an old fart can understand, but contains great illustrations to assist the reader even more. Have a great Thanksgiving' Mike

Vaalpens, it seems to me that you said a while ago that you had Al Stohlman's book "How to Make Holsters", if you do -- read it, it covers this exact question. If you do not have it, you should get it (at around $12 it's well worth it) It will answer a whole pot-load of questions for you, and damned near every holster maker I have run into has their own copy, beat up, bent. and coffee stained - but always there. Mine is from about 1960. Mike

Ditto to what Red Cent says.

From the grumpy old guy: For everything -- it's thirty days. If I finish early, the customer is happy (I almost always finish early). If I'm on time, the customer has nothing to bitch about. If I'm late, I blame it on one of two things, either I had a bad case of needing to go fishing, OR, my age, because nobody expects an old fart to do anything in a hurry. Mike

Mr. McCan, thank you for the compliment. One thing we all should realize is that there is a fine line between a case of the 'wants' and a true necessity. We can always talk ourselves into 'needing' something that we 'want'. I hope that you get as much pleasure out of working with dead cow skin as do I. Mike

Basically what Dwight says, I have a similar belt and wear it most all of the time with the same result. IMO a good practice to follow when using any dye OR finish --- "moderation in everything" Mike

FWIW from the grumpy guy: I don't go in for the new fangled electric burners - I make a series of "running irons" which are heated with a propane torch and applied (always) to bare leather. I heat the little beggars to a nice yellow-red and apply immediately to the dead cow skin. Believe it or don't but the smell reminds me of branding time on the ranch I grew up on. Also the place that when 10 years old, I was told that if you don't work, you don't eat. I worked and ate. A pic of a gussied up, 'branded' Tom Threeperson style holster for the vintage S&W Mike

My biggest suggestion is to go step by step and always take your time. mike

Jack, I had to go look, but yes, my jug says 'fresh lemon scent' -- I don't really notice it when applying it, and there isn't any scent that I notice after the stuff is dry. Mike

From the old grumpy guy; you have the correct stuff. I learned about it when I ran out of Tandy's Neat Sheen and saw that it looked a bunch like Tandy's stuff. After experimentation and a bit of reading I began to use it instead of the sheen stuff. That was over 30 years ago. Haven't looked back since. Mike

hth: for a beginning work, it looks pretty damned good -- initially. BUT, (here we go) the edges need burnishing, the belt needs to be stitched, if it's two pieces cemented together (I can't tell for sure, but it sure as hell looks like it) AND, you need to groove your stitch line, (then practice stitching) - before you put the time and effort into actually pulling thread. Stitching is a bit more involved than sticking a needle through the leather one way, then sticking the other needle through the same hole from the other side and pulling it tight. Use of the overstitch would help --- AFTER you stitch in the groove (which ain't there).. The holster lacks molding and the flesh side (inside) is not a good surface to snuggle your favorite shooting iron up to. With no oil, dye, Ausie wax, or SOME damned thing to care for the leather. Then use something to truly seal that thing. You said that you did use a 'spray' to seal itthe leather. and I kinda wonder what that stuff my be. In it's current condition the surface of the holster and belt will most likely show every kind of anything that may touch it.. The the first drop of water, oil, coffee, or strawberry ice cream that hits your rig WILL discolor it (badly) and leave a stain which is permanent. (Murphy's law says that it WILL happen). Now,you may wonder why I say that the rough interior of your rig is not too good. Well, think about it, each and every time you fire any handgun you end up with powder residue all around the muzzle -- in wheelguns, it's at the face of the cylinder also. That crap WILL wipe off and be ground into the rough textured leather, both when going in or coming out of the holster. As that crap builds up it becomes abrasive and, in turn wears the finish of your fine shooter much quicker than a smooth interior. , . IMO we spend more than enough on our handguns, and especially, if it belongs to someone else (a customer) you don't want to provide a surface which will wear the bluing any faster than necessary. Now, proper wet molding would provide some retention or 'grip' on the gun and seat the gun in the same place each time it hits the leather. Finally, in my experience, a closed toe holster has the ability (and inclination) to attract all kinds of small bits of crap, junk, litter, rubbish, or dead bugs waaay down in there, AND NOBODY ever cleans out the toe of a holster. OK, now that I have permanently enamored myself with you, be assured that I'm not putting your effort down, just the opposite. BUT I hope to show you that putting a proper holster together is a bit more of an endeavor than you realize. Mike

Cave; just my $.02 worth. You have received a pot-load of good information from experienced leather workers here. I suspect that you are currently involved in some form of law enforcement. I also feel that you are attempting to design a holster to carry a specific handgun -- concealed. With those in mind, one thing to remember is that a 'duty' (garrison) belt, be it with basket weave or not, is a poor measure of quality for carrying a shooter, concealed or not. It IS suitable ONLY for holding up your trousers. Many in law enforcement feel that the garrison belt is great for off duty wear when carrying almost any handgun, it 'feels' heavier that your 'normal' belt. That may well come from the fact that it's generally 1 5/8" wide -- not the normal 1 1/2" belt. They also feel that the Sam Browne rig is optimal. Wrong on both counts IMO. The heaviest of Sam Browne belts I have seen or worn consists of about 9oz leather lined (sometime only partially) with about 3oz. stuff. My garrison style gunbelt is made from 14oz leather cut from the back - lined with 2/3oz and fully stitched. Any form of gunbelt is required to provide a solid platform from which to do your handgun work, and combined with a holster suitable for your specific needs. I'll not go into your holster design other than to say listen to what Dwight and camano ridge have stated. If I'm correct in suspecting that you are setting up a fully concealed rig, my initial advice is; DRESS TO CONCEAL -- to attempt to conceal a weapon while in what is your "normal" attire is generally a loosing proposition. Look around and see what attire 'fits' your area, in the current weather, and find clothes that allow you to conceal. Then -- practice. (I've popped a LOT of buttons and torn a number of shirts and jackets "practicing") A second consideration most folks look at is "printing". Printing is not as much a problem as most think it is. What IS a problem is that the true bad guy, one that has spent time in lockup (I'm not just talking 10 days in the county jail) are observers. They WILL notice the inadvertent movements that you do because YOU know that YOU are carrying. It's unconscious, and it takes a pot-load of time to get to the point that wearing a gun on the hip feels so natural that you don't realize that it's there, BUT, knowing it's there all the time. Kind of an oxymoron ain't it? Well, I'm off the soapbox that I sort of tripped over and climbed up on. You have started on a great craft, and as in all things, you learn constantly. We all do. Mike

From the grump: It sounds from your initial description that your leather comes out "wet". Well, it will if you put it in "wet". I sog up the thing, set it aside for as long as it takes for the leather to resume it's normal (dry) appearance, but feels cool when touched to my baby soft facial skin. (baby soft if I have shaved within the last three hours) At that time I stuff the shooter into it's final resting location within my current masterpiece and go to molding. I leave the shooter in place until the outer surface of the leather feels dry and warmish - again when touching the previously described location. Carefully removing the shooter, I wipe it down well with an oily cloth and leave the leather alone to completely dry -- inside and out --- at least for overnight as minimum. Just saying. Mike

Val --- You must have gotten me mixed up with some other guy, in that I don't strongly advocate even a partially covered trigger guard. Many do, and also consider it totally proper to cover the entire trigger guard. One of my favorite holsters is the "Tom Threeperson" design, (if you don't know what that is, here's one that I made as a BBQ rig for the vintage S&W wheelgun in it) and those holsters based on that design - it ain't got a bit of the trigger guard covered and is arguably the fastest wheelgun holster made. I do not particularly care for a 'safety' strap on many of my holsters, but again, that's a personal feeling, or requirement that I work out with my customer. I will say that it may be wise to cover the thing on some pistols, and even for a specific shooter (person), at least in some instances, but overall to me it doesn't matter much. It comes down to what the customer wants,needs and is comfortable with. As to belt loops, an integral loop will always be stronger and allow less movement than a separately attached one and will wear better. In them there is much less possibility of torn, or worn stitching. NOW, as to rivets, t-nuts, Chicago screws, etc. I try to absolutely remove them from my vocabulary, thoughts, and/or consideration when talking about or am considering a holster. There are places for these things -- even in leather work, but generally a holster just isn't one of them. If you look at a well made holster, you see none of those - except where the tension is adjustable (and I'm not much in favor of "adjustable" holsters) or on a paddle holster. Now look at one of those "one size fits all" rigs purchased at Wally World that has a cute little rivet at the top of the welt. Looks cheap as hell because your logical mind tells you that the maker can't even stitch well enough to keep the damned thing together so your shooter won't fall out, and on top of that, it's appearance should bring to mind questions about the quality of the leather used. To me, in general, rivets etc. do not belong in. on, or around a holster, BUT I'm just a poor, grumpy, opinionated, old man, and there are those that fail to see the logic in my thoughts. Mike

From the grump: Two pieces of 5/6oz will be plenty. when glued up they will produce a piece of leather of 10/12 oz weight - more than enough for all but the largest and heaviest of weapons. Use a good quality of contact cement (I use Weldwood Contact Cement). Cut one piece of leather carefully to as close to the exact pattern as possible, then cut a mirror image slightly larger all around than the original. Smear the contact cement on the flesh sides of each piece of the dead cow skin. When the surface of each is JUST SLIGHTLY tacky, align the two pieces, the smaller (carefully cut) one atop the larger. I use a piece of wax paper between the two pieces, align them and gently ease the paper out - a little at a time while ensuring a good physical bond by pressing the top piece down onto the bottom piece. When completely stuck together, roll the piece flat with something akin to mamma's rolling pin. Put some umph to it as you roll. If using her kitchen necessity, this is best done while the dear lady is out of the residence, or at least elsewhere, for a substantial time period. Finally, find a stack of heavy books, a piece of polished granite or marble (preferably NOT from a headstone) or any SMOOTH surfaced item or combination of items, then lay those on top of your bonded leather piece. NOW, this is critical!!! leave the damned thing alone until tomorrow!!! NO peaky, no messing with, --- just let it lay there all alone. After it has rested over night (to ensure the chemical bond between the two pieces) just trim to ensure it appears as a single piece of leather with two smooth sides. NOW -- treat it as just what it is -- a single piece of smooth dead cow skin. Don't try to fold the damned thing and make the 'lining' fit - just ain't gonna happen. Being well bonded it should not show wrinkles, and if it does, they'll be inconsequential. Merry Easter Eggs -- have fun. Mike

Well guy, looks to me like you did just what the customer wanted. Good work. Mike

Go back to photobucket and copy and paste the bottom one -- "IMG" and try again.

chiefjason; when I do attach a thumb break (pretty seldom) I place the thumb break a bit behind the hammer and bring the strap above the front sight and in front of the hammer, no trimming needed. This way, even if the strap loosens up, it still functions as needed. Here is a pic of a law enforcement holster with a K-frame S&W in it. The strap is not a thumb break but sits in exactly the same location as would a thumb break safety strap, and is the best pic of the proper location for such a strap I have. Hope this helps. Mike

From the grump. Can't see a damned thing wrong with your design nor work --- except (gotta get one of those in here and there) the thumb break. Actually, the location of the thumb break. I think that in time that strap will try to work it's way off of the recoil bulge and end up too loose to do any good - sitting very loosely right above and behind the hammer. My suggestion would be to take it tightly across the hammer, in front of the hammer spur. JMHO. Mike

SouthernCross: Yes, I hand stitch all of my work. I was taught to stitch by a WWI cavalry soldier waaay back when I was about 17 yrs. old. That was one OLD man. Don't figure on even trying a machine, I just don't like the way the stitching appears. Thanks for the compliment. Mike

Sam, do just as Josh has described. That 'wave" is actually clearance at the front of the pistol's frame, and helps determine the depth that the gun will seat in the finished holster. Revolver holsters allow the gun to seat either on the front of the trigger guard, the front of the frame, or, as in this case, both. Auto pistols, on the other hand, basically always seat on the front of the trigger guard. Here is a pic of a personal holster of mine made from a pattern just as Josh described. By looking at the pic with the gun in the holster you can see where the front of the trigger guard seats, the front of the cylinder is, and between the two, the front of the frame. Mike

usmc --- Yes, all places that produce a cut edge are stitched. These pics may show the amount of stitching required, it takes a while. Mike

Glockanator -- Just so you understand my earlier statement about GT being nasty uh..... stuff. I bought one bottle of the uh,,,,, stuff ten or more years ago. After playing with it full strength, diluted, warm, cold etc. , and ruining a pot-load of good scrap leather, I took that bottle and threw it as far as I could out into the middle of Mojave Desert. May it be discovered in 10,000 years and befuddle whatever creature lives on this ball of mud at that time. JMHO. Mike

Well, here's from the old grump. Personally I don't truly 'line' my holsters, but I do make them from two layers of light leather bonded together. This produces a lined interior in essence. (no flesh side showing) My usual work consists of cutting the pattern, then cutting a second one in mirror image (but slightly larger to assist in fitting) then bonding them together with Weldwood Contact cement. For most of the current fad of polymer framed shooters, I use 4/5 oz veg tanned shoulder leather. After the two pieces are bonded together and trimmed, I proceed as it were a single piece of 8/9 oz. leather. After wet molding and drying, the holster is substantially more rigid or stiffer than a one made of a single layer of similar weight leather -- with the added benefit of being smooth on the inside. When John Bianchi started out making holsters in his garage, that's how he did many of his handmade early pieces-- difficult to do in an almost completely mechanized environment, as is his place in Temecula, CA. today. It takes a bit more time, but I feel that the end result is worth it AND, nobody expects an old fart to do anything in a hurry. The only burnishing done is on all edges. Mike P.S. IMHO gum tragacanth is really nasty sh....cr... er, "stuff".

Charles, camano ridge has said it perfectly. It's just your basic folded holster, with the addition of a wing with belt slot, plus a stitched-on belt loop on the back of the holster. It is a very concealable holster to wear, They posses the ability to keep the front of the holster tight to the body, arguably better that most other styles The reinforcement is rather redundant IMO, but it now has morphed into an (almost) mandatory palate for damned near any form of decoration you can come up with. I personally believe that the reinforcement was the result of Milt saying to himself, "well, after the belt loop is stitched on, how do I make the damned thing look decent, and the belt loop not being just an afterthought?" I am quite sure that Milt and those that followed after, (Bianchi, etc.) were not at all worried about the collapse of the mouth of their holsters, after all, they had been making damned good holsters for years without the problem OR even the thought reinforcement. The only place that I can think of that the problem with the mouth of the holster actually collapsing, is on an IWB rig. As far as that goes, I have some personal opinions on that style, which others may feel a point to argue over. I think I do have a bit of an edge on many folks on here, in that I have been able to watch the evolution of holster design(s) since the 1950s. I've seen 'em come -- and go, and in my opinion, I'll mostly stay with the old traditional designs - with slight modifications here and there. Mike