katsass

FWIW I agree with what Michael said. If, however, you are not too familiar with the use of a harness awl, it can be frustrating. You can utilize a drill press and drill the holes for your stitching - with this caveat: drill DINKY holes (3/64") then go back with your awl and open them enough for you to get a needle through. When I teach someone to stitch (notice I do not refer to it as 'sewing') I have them groove, mark with an overstitch wheel, drill some holes and then start to open them up with the awl For this last step, I have them place their project in a lacing/stitching pony. They learn to hold the awl in proper relationship to the leather, and be able to feel the thing go through the dead cow skin., Finally, after some practice, they only need the marking from the overstitch to continue on with just the awl. Some feel that this is 'cheating', but I have seen too many budding leatherworkers give up on stitching because their stitch holes are so uneven that after taking all the time to do the work -- it ends up looking like crap. It's my opinion that the holes should be just large enough for one to force the needle through -- with the aid of a pair of smooth-jawed pliers. I also feel that one should feel good about their work as early on as possible. As to your design, The lack of stitching at the trigger guard is a real problem, range holster or not.. I feel that it is necessary for that area to be stitched no less than 1/2 the way up the trigger guard so as to preclude looseness (that is already evident) of the gun in the holster. If you look at your rig, you can see that, although you have plenty of dead cow skin around your shooter, the area that holds the gun in place is ONLY the area from the front of the trigger guard to the muzzle of your shooter . NOW, look at the area in front of the rear sight -- a pretty good chunk of space between the shooter and your leather, (way too damned much IMO) this, and the fact that your nice, tight wet molding will NOT hold up very long with the gun moving about inside, and you can see the problem. You have a good design, pretty well constructed BUT it does need a bit of tweaking here and there to be a really good, functional holster. This is just some observations from a grumpy old guy, and in no way am I attempting to diminish your effort, so take from it what you will ---, after all it didn't cost you a penny. Mike

Samalan, I've made a few over the years and initially I used A heavy cotton flannel with a fairly dense 1/2" foam witch was fitted between the outer shell and the flannel interior. After about 6 years one of them came back because the foam dried out and turned to little bitty pieces of ----- stuff. (we live in the desert) From then on I lined my rifle and shotgun soft cases with dense batting (from a fabric store) sandwiched between the shell and the heavy cotton flannel. Here are a couple of pics. The first was made for my daughter-in-law (before she was), and fits her Winchester Mod-12. The second is my son's, and fits a Beretta A-302 which has a 10ga barrel with a 12ga chamber. The two of them shoot trap. Hope this helps. Mike

Red, FWIW, I work on only one order at a time - I may get into the design stage for the next in line, but I never put knife to leather on a project 'till the first one is done. You may have seen my normal response to the question "when can I expect delivery?" I tell all customers that it will be 'around' 30 days. With that in mind, if it gets done in two weeks the customer feels 'special' and is tickled. If it takes three weeks or so, it's still ahead of the time estimate and the customer is happy. If it takes a full month , it is as expected, and if over by a few days, well. stuff happens and that's still 'around' 30 days. I make sure that my customers know that nobody expects and old fart like me to do ANYTHING in a hurry, and besides that, I just might want to go fishing a time or two. Mike

Well CWK, my only comment at this time is -- be sure to NOT keep your shooter in that case for too long a period of time AND be sure to wipe the gun down with an oily rag every you remove it. Sheep wool has the tendency to hold moisture and many a nice rifle has ended up with not so pretty orange dots all over it. Mike

Red, the one thing that I tell those that can put up with me trying to teach then to work leather is "SLOW THE HELL DOWN". The drying of wet leather after dying, molding, and when using contact cement takes time, and it is something that just needs to be allowed to work. We all want to see the result of our work, BUT, rushed work always turns out worse than if you took your time. JMHO Mike

TX, thanks for the kind words, and you are most welcome. Mike

Jason, first off I use only natural (linen) thread, well waxed, and usually size #1 needles -- once in a while I may use a size #0 -- but never anything larger than that. First, thin the first couple of inches of thread end down by pulling it against the blade of a knife. Re-wax as necessary. Twist the end into a nice pointy appearance and stuff that pointy end through the needle's eye, extending only about 1/2" to !" beyond the eye. Lay the needle along the main portion of your thread and at the point the tip of the needle touches the thread, poke the needle right through the thread -- WITHOUT BREAKING THE THREAD. I usually twist the thread counter to it's normal configuration to open the stuff up. Pull the long portion up to the needle's eye, and then pull the pointy end out so that the two portions of thread join at the eye of the needle. Re-wax and twist tight. Now, when pulling the thread through the leather, pull the needle with pliers through the leather, don't wiggle it all over hell and half of Texas, use the thumb of the hand not using the pliers, as a fulcrum to pry against if necessary. Once through, pull to tighten the thread by pulling just the thread -- the needle is NOT a handle to pull the thread tight. You can also open the hole to make things a bit easier (if drilled or punched with a nail) with a good stitching awl. Be aware that the awl must be held and used in the proper orientation to the preceding hole and the edge of the project. This however may be easier for someone starting out to perform while still maintaining even spacing on the back side of your project. (It's much easier to show than to explain, and if you don't do it right, I can yell at you -- venting, as they say). Also to many it seems a bit uncomfortable, just as pulling each stitch tight will ultimately be uncomfortable until you have created a callous on your little fingers. The reason I suggest that a beginner to stitching use a drill press or Dremel (initially) is that I feel it is more reasonable for the newbie to accomplish some reasonably decent stitching early on, rather than work hard just to end up with a (basically) ruined project because of rotten awl use. Learning to use an awl properly takes a lot of practice, time, and more than a few poked fingers and thumbs - which in turn bleed all over your project, adding stains that can only be covered with black dye. Hope this is more clear than the Great Grey-green, Greasy Limpopo River. Mike P.S. The easiest way to get satisfactory thread for hand stitching at this point is to order "Waxed Linen Thread for Hand Stitching" from Springfield Leather. I would not order a similar type from Tandy - but that's just me.

Well TX, the biggest portion of my education initially revolved around use of the awl, as well as how to maintain the damned thing. I'm inarticulate enough that I balk a attempting to explain those lessons. I will say that most folks punch too big a stitching hole. Now it may be considered a major transgression by many purist, but I feel that mastering the use of an awl takes time and effort, and that punching holes for stitching may, and can be done by other methods. Many folks use a Dremel tool or a drill press to get the holes done in a reasonably proper manner - after all, they are nothing more than a bunch of uniformly sized and spaced voids in the leather. If using the Dremel or the drill press method, use a drill of no larger than 3/64" -- 1/16" is too big. You can also use a small brad or nail chucked up in the press - No larger than a 1 1/2" X #16 (skinny little beggars) OK, you have a pot-load of holes in your leather and you want to stitch. I use a #1 sized needle, many will use a bigger one purchased from Tandy - 'taint a good idea. Start with your long piece of thread with a needle on each end by sticking a needle into the first hole. The damned thing will not be forced through by hand - if you can push or pull it through, the hole is too damned big. Pull it through with a pair of smooth-jawed pliers -- and DON'T work the needle up and down lest you bust the damned thing. Pull the thread till it centers up the thread in the hole. Insert the second needle from the opposite side of that first hole, being careful not to skewer the thread already in the hole. Pull that thread up 'till you have a small loop on that side of your masterpiece. Now, look at where the thread from the first needle is laying in relationship to the loop - either inside the loop, or outside. It actually makes no difference which it is, AS LONG AS ALL SUBSEQUENT STITCHES ARE IDENTICAL --- EITHER INSIDE OR OUTSIDE. NOW, RETURN TO THE FIRST NEEDLE AND STUFF IT IN THE NEXT HOLE. YOU MUST ALWAYS PUT THE FIRST NEEDLE THROUGH THE HOLE ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE PROJECT. First needle through, snug it up and pull back toward yourself a bit. Second needle from the opposite side making sure that the thread is inside or outside the loop as was the first one/-- snug the stitch up tight. Go for it. The biggest thing is to remember that each stitch must be done exactly as the preceding one. While old Jeff taught me, he brought into question my intelligence, my hearing, my ability to follow directions, and my ability to do anything correctly in that I was left handed. Frankly it's one hell of a lot easier to show someone how to do it than it is to write it down. I hope this is at least a bit clearer than mud. But as I said, each step must follow the preceding ---- exactly. Mike

Grumpy here; from what I can tell the burnishing does suffer, however you need to look to the reason that it is scuffing along that edge. The pic isn't all that good and neither are my old peepers, but I tend to think that the mouth Of the holster was not properly wet molded. I can't tell what the holster is designed to fit but it is obvious to me that something is bumping into that edge as the weapon is holstered. If it's collapsing you need to either use a bit more heat in your molding or overlay an outer piece around the mouth and mold it well or fuller. As to burnishing, I have used only glycerin soap or saliva (got a little tired of licking dead cow skin though) but use any non-human moisture with care. JMHO. A pic of some of my burnishing is included. It's on a lined, hand-stitched belt. Mike P.S. I used gum trag some time ago -- one time. I tossed that bottle as far as I could and never looked for it or another.

From the grump; for stitching holsters (and every other damned thing I put together) I use an old Osborne awl. It has a blade of just slightly under 1/8" in width, and about 1 1/2" in length. It tip is sharp enough to not be felt as it slips deeply into one's finger or thumb. When that occurred (only in the past), it was a problem in that blood showed up (on the leather) before I knew I had stuck myself. The blade is sharpened only about 1/4" from the tip. Now, this awl has served me well for around 30 years, BUT, current Osborne awls do not seem to be of that quality. If purchasing an awl, call Douglas and talk to the man, asking for his recommendations. By the way, the first thing to learn with a good, sharp awl, is to NOT STICK your tender body. JMHO. Mike

From the old grump; I also use only Weldwood Contact Cement, and only their solvent based version. Been using is for a long time. Also, it really depends on what your desired outcome is after molding. If for retention, take your time, use your grubby mitts, and shape your wet dead cow skin to your shooter --- if your desire is to allow everyone to see the engraving on the slide or barrel, and every line of the shooter, well, do as Dwight suggests. FWIW. my opinion in the latter case is that it can very easily be overdone, to no good purpose. Mike

As the Glockanator says, you can use a stack of rather heavy leather epoxied together to form a good stack, then shape it with a Dremel (type) tool. Burnish the (large) edges and you have a pretty decent piece of unique work. Just a thought, comment, and FWIW from the grumpy old guy. Here's an example of a stack used as a holster welt. Mike Mike

Well, the number of good wishes received when I finally got back on line and added a couple of comments to questions (after a few months of being absent) is rather overwhelming. I didn't figure that anyone would notice the absence of one old fart among the number of members on this web site, and for those well wishers I sincerely thank you. Mike

Gentlemen I appreciate and thank you for your concern. For quite a while we thought my ticker had gone nuts, however, due to the diligence of my primary care doc, (rather than the cardiologist(s) it now is determined that my thyroid went nuts causing all kinds of problems, including my ticker and strength. It got bad enough that I had to strain every muscle in my old bod just to stand up from a seated position. The thyroid meds have been adjusted and now I'm walking a minimum of a mile on a daily basis to regain strength. If I start at 6:30 in the AM I can be back in the house and working by 7:00 which 'taint too bad. Thanks again. Mike

FWIW from the old grump; If you ask a question on here, you're likely to end up with multiple answers -- different --- but all correct. My advise would be for you to purchase the book "The Art of Hand Sewing Leather", You can get it from almost any of the suppliers on this site. READ it, and follow the instructions therein. Again, FWIW, I was taught to hand stitch by a WWI Cavalry Soldier, and a harder taskmaster there never was.. Take from my comments what you wish -- after all, you didn't pay anything for them. Mike

Red Cent: I have no idea what your weather is like in North Carolina --- other than to imagine that it's humid --- however, I believe that most folks don't realize how warm the ground can be on a summer's day. Get hold of one of those laser dot temp gages that reads surface temps (don't go buy one of the damned things - bum it off a buddy) and check the ground surface temp in an area that has some hours of uninterrupted sunlight on it -- it can easily exceed 120 degrees on concrete, blacktop, gravel, etc. Place your soggy masterpiece slightly above the (hot) concrete, macadam, blacktop or whatever you want to call the warm surface (use a small box, a thick book (previously read), or anything that elevates it slightly above the warm (maybe hot) surface, and allow old Ma Nature to smile on it for a while, turning it once. In colder climes one can face a small space heater (set on low) into an open box with your treasure nestled inside. The thing is to warm the dead cow skin enough to allow evaporation to take place and allow that moisture to escape the area surrounding your work, BUT in so doing, never allow the leather to exceed about 135 degrees. I don't recommend the use of a standard oven for drying -- it's to damned difficult to hold your temp to a reasonable level and the moisture has a somewhat difficult time escaping. Mlapaglia has it down well. In my experience, most folks want to hurry the wet molding process so that they can see and show others their masterpiece just a bit sooner than they should. Their work suffers from that 'hurry up' mindset IMO. Mike

Seattle, I have to agree with you on quality, solid (not plated) hardware. The belt thickness is to provide a very stable place for the holster to ride. If you have ever tried to carry a shooter like a 1911, or a Smith 4" M-24 or even a Smith M-19, on a standard, commercial trousers belt and had the damned thing sag, stretch and/or fold over, you'll promptly get a true & proper gunbelt (not some TV western cowboy shoot-em-up rig) -- even for daily wear. As to stitching, I learned as a kid -- from a WWI cavalry soldier. I enclose a closer look at the belt. Try to Learn to stitch, it'll do you well in the future. Mike

From the grumpy old guy; Do as you're doing now, and don't worry about your turn around time, BUT, as to turn around time, I tell my customers that their holster will be ready in 'about' 30 days. That way when it is done in two weeks, they're tickled pink --- if done in under 30 days, they are happy ---- if done in around 30 days, they expect it -- and if I go over a couple of days it's still within a reasonable time element. After all, I just may want to go fishing AND, nobody expects an old fart to do ANYTHING in a hurry. There some things that just can't be sped up without the quality suffering -- make sure that a questioning customer knows that. Mike

From the grumpy old guy; first off my recommendation is to contact Springfield Leather (Gogle them) and order their catalog. Look through it and read the assistive notes on damned near every page --- then purchase an AL Stolhman book on how to make belts from them. THEN --- READ the damned thing. To start with, buy a few 9oz belt blanks (this saves you money) and get only the tools that the book indicates that you will need. I use 14oz leather because my belts are designed to carry a sidearm, and I then line them with 2/3oz. If you work slow, pay attention to detail and enjoy yourself, everything will come out well. I'm enclosing a couple of pics of one of my 14oz belts lined with 2/3oz leather and hand stitched just to show how far one can go after 35 or so years of butchering dead cow skin. Mike

OK, the grumpy old katsass doesn't know one end of a stitching machine from the other; never have used one, and I expect that I'm to damned old to start playing with one at this stage of the game. That said, I have a close friend (one of the premier knife makers in the country) that happens to own one of these machines -- which just stopped dead this afternoon. Bound up tighter than a ........ well, bound up tight --- nothing will move. Would appreciate any information as to a repair facility for these old machines, or any information as to where or whom he may be able to contact re: repairs. Thanks in advance. Mike

Tree Reaper, you done good. Mike

Well Griz, if you notice, there is a slight indentation about 1/3 of the way down from the top (mouth). That is where the welt actually begins on my stuff. The welt thickness is determined by the thickness of the knife blade. The pattern is cut a little bit wider at that point up to the top of the mouth (sort of billows out on each side a bit in that area) -- and no welt is applied in there. That allows a bit more room for the handle to be molded, but ends up maintaining an (almost) even shape in the overall design after molding Probably clear as mud ....... but that's how I do it. Mike

Well Griz, I'm not an expert in knife sheaths, however, this is how I put this type of sheath together. Outer shell of 4/5oz, each piece lined with 2oz, welt in the center is 10oz. It's how I did each of the following. Hope it helps.Mike

Ran, very nicely done, I made this one for the same gun for a customer around a year ago -- and yes, it takes a pot-load of leather. Mike

From the grump: I make most of my holsters from two layers of 4/5 and sometimes 5/6oz shoulder leather. Gunbelts, generally are made from 12/13oz saddle skirting, backed with 2/3oz. Here's a pic of a pair of matching (as close as I can get, and still under construction) holsters for SAA clones. Strong hand on the left -- cross draw on the right, and one of the cross draw on the belt. Mike