ConradPark

If you're going to have a smaller number of items made after a prototype it's much better to have a small workshop that specialize in leather/ bag making to do it than a individual craftsperson, not to mention cost wise. Depending on where you're located some of this shops do require that you visit them due to communication and the fact that many are not present online. In East London around Hackney and Brick Lane there must be maybe hundred companies that makes leather goods, a lot of designer students here are using them so if you're near London I recommend visiting the area. There is one place called 'The little workshop' that specialize in small runs and well known among designers and students. But again you need to visit them.

Know this is an old thread. but I think the reason for no reply is that there is no 'right' answer. Everything depends on so many different factors, design, taste, target groups etc. Also most people here want to see some effort meaning that - do first, ask later. So make a few bags, try different leathers, thicknesses and find what YOU like and prefer and if you run in to some difficulties that you can't solve, well then there are plenty of people here on this forum that will help you. Good luck.

OurJud, what you also have to realize is that a studio like PM uses machinery to aid in their production. The clean look is because they use a clicker die to stamp out the piece in the leather, in this pattern they also stamp out the holes for the stitches - that's why the holes are round instead of the diamond shaped or slit shape you get from a pricking iron or a stitching awl. The handmade part comes in the stitching that I doubt takes no longer than 2 min. The edges are probably finished with something like a big drum sander for shoe making or at least a smaller bench grinder with a burnisher/polishing attachment, probably they also have a edge color machine. Now this is not meant in a negative way, as everyone here that has a business knows, there is only so much you can do by yourself and to be able to offer and supply to demand this is the way to go. As a hobbyist it's of course not possible to have machines like this and because of that you will sometimes not be able to get the same look either. I suggest that you try to do projects that feels fun. Avoid trying to copy (you would probably have gotten it cheaper by actually buying the real wallet in the first place).

Here is a pic of a case I did, while mine is hand stitched the principle of the case is the same. I wet the middle of the piece and then folded it & gluing the sides with cement glue and gently tapping the folded side with a hammer (have a plastic bag in between to prevent marks and discoloring). When dry I cut the rounded corners, marked the stitches and sew everything together. Then I dipped the whole case in warm water and pushed a dummy mobile phone inside (you can also wrap your mobile in kitchen plastic wrap) and let it air dry over night. When dried I put some neatsfoot oil on the leather and dyed and finished the edges (plenty of articles here on how to do that). free upload

While most people tend to leave the flesh side alone, one of the most common traditional ways to burnish the flesh side is to use gum tragacanth. Just apply with fingers or a dauber until fully covered and slick with a flat object, preferable with a rectangular glass slicker (Tandy sells one among others). Now this might be just me, but I find that it's not always easy to get and even looking result. While it is quick and effective to keep the flesh side from raising up, I tend to only use this method when the flesh side is going to be hidden, like for card pockets. When its for a unlined piece where the flesh side is visible I learned a way that gives a far more even and professional look. It does not look as shiny as when done with gum tragacanth but more matt but I like it more that way and that is to use Fiebings Tan Kote. The trick is to use clean lint free cotton piece - apply the Tan Kote to the cotton piece and then drag the cotton piece over the flesh side of the leather in ONE direction only, when there is no more Tan Kote transferring over, re apply more to the cotton piece and continue to apply to the leather in the SAME direction. Be careful not to let the Tan Kote getting in touch with the front side! Let it dry for a few hours - preferably over night.

You can easily do this with two light boxes, I bought a cheap two box set for £40 on ebay that works perfectly for me. Try one directed from the left corner in a 45 degree angel a bit away from the subject and one from the lower right corner directed almost from above. Use ordinary oven aluminum foil to get light bouncing/reflecting back from the sides. I would also say that the picture been heavily modified in a photo editing software, especially the background, while it's not difficult to achieve the affect, the difficulty is to make it look the same on all different products - hence it's easier to do a graded background in a software that you insert on every pic.

David L, while I do agree with you in general about crafters not putting enough value into the products, I just wish people would stop pointing finger to a specific country or region when it comes to blaming that things getting sold for under cutting prices. While of course this exist from the countries you're mentioning, the same thing happens everywhere including Canada and USA. Now I'm very aware that this is a sensitive subject and I have covered this discussion elsewhere so I am not trying to start a fight or accusing any one, it's just my own 'two cents' that blaming specifics about a general subject is not that different than when people start blaming specific religious people or mentioning that it would have to do with the color of skin. Dangerous way of reasoning as there are plenty of people out there that take that kind of talk to pervert their own ignorant thinking. Take UK and Etsy for example, while the majority of the people that sells leather goods (or anything else) are not maybe the cheapest on that platform I would say that 99% (give or take) are still selling it for under the value for similar things sold on the high street or even the markets in London, and now I'm including the bad stuff too. This is because as already mentioned, most of those sellers are just doing it as a hobby or as a way to get some extra income. It's frustrating for the professionals but at the same time this is how life works everywhere. Those 99% have nothing to do with the asian market. And this is from one nation i Europe that has a LARGE presence on Etsy. Now, I hope neither you or any one else are not taking any offense as that was not my intent.

I grew up in a family business that produced/manufactured shoes, mainly working boots, clogs and sandals. While most of it was heavily industrialized we also made 'artisan' versions where maybe 50% was handmade. Even though we could charge much more it actually didn't really justify the extra amount of time to make, nor the lost working hours that could have been spent on producing more cheaper products, but hey that is business! Point is that not understanding why some items cost a certain amount is just that, not understanding. If one doesn't think it's worth to spend that amount of money is a completely different issue, (personally I would never believe a pair of sandals costing under $80-$100 to be handmade if sold here in the west). Different market cater for different individuals. The sad reality is that most businesses actually charge less than they would like, because so few people find it worth to spend their money today. There are several exceptions of course, there always is. When it comes to measurements you use 'lasts' made from wood or plastic. you need at least one pair for every size but standard is 3-4, one for narrow or wide foot, high wrist etc.- and that is just for one style! It's a huge investment for a business. Some of the higher end make their own. Takes years of training to make one properly and is of course not cheaper. Sometimes on ebay you can find pair of last in individual pairs, if you are into shoe making that is your best bet unless you're willing to spend thousands on getting a new set. There is a guy that make and sell his own made clogs on markets here in London and he makes every thing himself including the lasts but he's been working with it for 40 years plus and he charges from £150 and up for a pair. And probably would like to charge more. For a first time making sandals I think they look great! Personally I think keeping a leather sole is more classy but hey, it's just an opinion! Looking forward to see your next pair.

Hi, first of all keep up the good work! In the end of the day hard work and to believe in your self 200% is what will make you succeed. I'm not sure what you're after here, as most members here are not professionals in the sense that they make a full time living of leather work and those who are tend to be a bit like - do it on your own - mentality. While we all are happy to give input and views we are not your target customers. That is what you need to find. To run a business you need to learn about that and marketing. Courses, etc. That's why you see mediocre products being sold by successful companies and great products (like so much being displayed here on this forum) that never gets sold mainstream. If you have the capital to market yourself heavily it might go quicker but otherwise be prepared for the long, long way to climb the ladder. Do a 5 year business plan. Expect to get halfway during that time if you're lucky. And regardless of how much you prepare, the real journey starts when you throw yourself whole heartily out there! That's when you find out what will work for you and what doesn't. You can theorize as much as you want and listen to other people opinions but there are no short cuts and nothing substitute hard work. And what makes other successful will not necessarily help you. Because you're not just gonna copy are you? So don't wait, start now, find your own feet and style, take courses on how to run a small business and marketing, trial and error. Good Luck!

More often than not the "high end" fashion brands have linings made of nylon or similar man made material as they indeed are thinner than leather. And sometimes it is simpler than you might think, in the case of the picture you provided I'm pretty sure that its nothing more than three slits clicker cut in one layer of leather and no pockets behind. On you tube there is a video from how Ettinger make their high end wallets, I think that would interest you as their style is similar to LV's but it shows how the pockets you wonder about are made. Don't have the link now but search for "how it's made wallets Ettinger" and the video comes up.

Seems like it's gonna get sorted to your favor, good! About your pricing, while it is good to be modest and I'm sure that from a customer perspective most will be thrilled (about your prices) I think all the people saying that you price your stuff too low - including myself - look at it from another perspective. To put it bluntly it is prices like that, that make it difficult for leather workers that doesn't do this as a hobby to make a living. If your stuff was simpler, machine sewn with no edge work, fine - but no professional (meaning doing leather work for a living) would be able to put in that effort and sell it for those prices (unless it was wholesale). And this is meant as a compliment!

Not sure that I'll add something not already mentioned by others, just wanna say that while you obviously have done nothing wrong and I completely understand your feelings I can only advice that learn and go on. With that I mean that having a shop on sites like Etsy and Ebay means that things like this happens. And your prices are way, way too low! Also within EU and even when you sell through Etsy, by law the customer has right to cancel and return within 14 days, regardless your opinion on it. In the long run it's better to be polite, refund, and forget about it. Specially considering your low price anyway - not worth it! And if you are going to continue to on Etsy you better be prepared for more of things like this, it's just part of how it works. If you really don't like it I suggest that you put in your efforts in your own website instead! However you still have to know how to deal with trouble customers! Finally, if you would get a bad review, just close your shop and open a new one as your shop is new and you only have a few sales so far. With your quality of work you would get the same number of sales within a few weeks! Another hint is with each sale send a note (with your item) that states your return policy (make sure it follows the law and Etsy's policy) and encourage that they let you know if they are less than satisfied. While this might sound counter productive it actually make you seem more professional and able to deal with problems and that make some people not to bother if it's just a minor issue. On top of that DO tell them to write a review on your product - not the postal service (this is important, otherwise you'll just have to suffer if the postal service screw up and Royal Mail often does!), that way you quickly get more reviews on your shop. Most people won't bother otherwise! Anyway, don't be disheartened by this incident - just concentrate on doing more of your fine work!

Hey, thanks for answers and sharing! Just a follow up question regarding the edge ink, I've been using tandy's edge ink as well - mostly on chrome leather - how come that you heat polish it? documentation says to just let it air dry. What I'm wondering is what's the benefit? Sorry for all the questions! And to regards your modesty I have to point out that many sellers don't even come close to your quality of work.

Lovely work! If you don't mind me asking, are the edges burnished and dyed or have you used any edge coating of any kind? Also the Sedgwick Bridle, does it come already polished or does it have the white wax on the surface from the start? Cheers.

Would appreciate to be added, thanks.

Hey, your seat looks cool, keep up the good work! Also I think you shouldn't worry too much about the lack of response, like everything there are things that are of more general interest on this site and if you want feedback it's probably better to post in the Critique section of this forum. On another note, I've done leather work for many years but never a bike seat, while the leather part doesn't bother me I have felt a bit wary about the whole dressing the pan with foam bit - if you know what I mean. What would you suggest a good seat to start with as first project - a bobber seat like the one you used maybe?

Hmm, another suggestion could be that instead of tooling a border you could 'airbrush' a color difference, let say from almost black in the edges that blends in to light brown or something. If you do not have an airbrush you can get a similar effect with dabbing lightly with a sponge - try on a bit of test leather first though! The design can either be colored in with acrylics later or you color them first and protect it with a laquer so you can just wipe of the color that get on top.

I am really surprised by how little response it is on this site lately when it comes to getting hints and help from more experienced fellow leather workers. I can't believe that the only people watching this forum these days are people with no knowledge at all (I'm just kidding!). Seriously though, I felt I had to give my response to this one as all of us have started somewhere and the business side of leather work is by far under rated by almost everyone that starts venturing in on the earning money side of Leatherwork. This topic probably belongs somewhere else on the forum but here goes! While your question is quite general (for example - if you wanted to manufacture and sell a car - how much should you charge? it depends on so many different factors, doesn't it? Same with this) I think you need to establish a few basic things first. Are you doing Leatherwork only as a hobby regardless and people, friends are asked to buy and you don't mind to earn some extra cash? Or are you feeling that you could do something really good with your leather work, getting a lot of compliments and interest and think your work are better than most of what you see here and elsewhere? (Yes - I know this is a bit rude but hey, if you DON"T feel like that maybe you should wait doin the business side a little). If it is the first the answer is simple - whatever makes you happy. As long it covers the material and a few bucks extra it is all cool. I used to ask people that I didn't know what they thought my stuff was worth. After their answer I either felt that yes, I wouldn't mind selling it for this price or I felt - No way! If that was the case I would add as much as I felt I was worth, tell them my sales pitch and then ask if they would be prepared to buy it at that price. Regardless of their answer, it was invaluable as feedback from real potential customers - not friends or fellow leather enthusiasts that undoubtedly are always biased. Now - if your answer is the latter you have months and probably years to learn about running your own business and obviously there is no short answer or simple formula how to do that - even less so how to do it successfully! But how to price your wallet there is some guidelines. First start to think reversed and establish what you want. Do you want to sell something simple, low cost and easily affordable? Do you want to do more customised, personalized stuff? Or high end exclusive with superior craftsmanship and exotic materials? Or something in between? Trust me, you can't do everything so take your pick and stick to it to start with. Nothing stops you from changing it later and it SHOULD change later as you progress... Then to get a bit of perspective start to think in dozen or twenty items at the time. How much leather do you need to buy to make that wallet twenty times? How much other material, hardware, color etc. do you need to be able to make that wallet twenty times? Now, think how long time will it take you to do twenty of those wallets? REALISTICLY! Well, you probably forget unforeseen things like delay in getting hardware, mistakes in produce, your day job getting in between (can't have a supporting own business from the beginning - sorry), private life etc. Add a minimum of 50% to the estimated production time. Are you making it by hand or using machinery? Handmade has the benefit of being more exclusive so you could potentially charge more, saves costs as there is minimum of machinery involved. Downside is that it takes skill and time witch does increase production cost in hourly rate. If skill is lacking it looks shit. Machinery has the benefit of cutting production time that does save money, getting easier a uniformed look. Downsides are that machinery are super expensive, needs maintenence (more skills or another cost in repairs), takes space (need for larger studio). Take a industrial sewing machine for example. If you're planning on doing 20 wallets next month it's not worth it. If you plan to do 200 wallets next month you need it. On top of this you need to take into account your living costs - rent, bills, food etc. Yes you do! And don't forget costs for promotion (how are potential customers going to know about you? Even Facebook is not free anymore if you want to be seen). Postage costs, packeting? Oh, and finally but not least - taxes. So take your ALL the above mentioned costs for a month , add 10-15% (unforeseen stuff), divide it with your 20 wallets. Then decides a profit margin. There is no rule but say 40 - 50 % for the fun of it (there is so much information to read about this online). Now you have what you need to charge for each wallet if you are going to support yourself selling 20 wallets a month. Don't think 20 wallets are much? That's $4000 for $200 each - Sounds good to me. Thinking $200 a wallet is too much? Well, you should ask if a potential customer think it is too much. Maybe they do not. If they do - ask why! ( While some marketplaces have wallets - probably more like card cases - for 20 bucks you can find brands like Red Moon or Hermès selling wallets for $500 and more! and while they seem maybe different brands from each other they have a couple of things in common, they are both established brands/companies and renowned for superior craftsmanship in their leather goods, rivaled by few. It's all about what you're aiming for). If you don't want to sell wallets that cost more than $50 considering your target audience, well, then you'll probably need sell 80 - 90 wallets a month. If you're going to do wholesale you only get 40 - 50 % of the final retail price so then you're looking at making 160 - 180 wallets a month just to get the same amount around $4000. And to be honest, you are not going to do 180 wallets a month to start with. Let say you can make 3 wallets a day, that's a limit of around 65 wallets a month based on a 5 working day week. You want to make more, then again you have more costs, staff, machinery - and that means that you have to make and sell even more wallets. And just because you can make doesn't mean you'll sell. It takes TIME to build a an audience. That means you need to either sell cheaper things more in the beginning to build an interest or you sell fewer but more expensive stuff to cover the slower sale. Either way has it's pro's and con's and only you can try out what will work or not work for you. Now before anyone starts picking apart my guide I just want to mention that I have not really covered hourly rate. That is because it normally takes ages before you in a small business can accurately know your hourly rate any less how long it actually does take to make an item, besides I think it is more accurate to think about your limiting factors. If you know your costs and you know your maximum production rate, you'll know what you as a MINIMUM need to charge, this is where most people fail, they just think, it took me 3 hours to make this item so I'm charging $45. First make sure all your costs are covered! I also want to mention another thing about final sale price. And origin of produce. Personally I'm getting tired of the so old and tired targeting of certain regions in the world as the home to the low quality produce. That is pure ignorance if you believe that is the case. Low price? Sure - but that is another ball game. Business taxes are lower in the UK where I live so it's cheaper to produce here than in Sweden where I'm from. That's why so much is produced in Portugal and Turkey in Europe (and low minimum pay). But is the low production cost equal to poor quality? Hardly. And produce from Asia? Leathercraft and skill are thriving there, Some of the most skill full leather workers/studios today are based in Hong Kong (China), Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan and of course Japan. (The few real professional work that are featured on this site seems to come in majority of these countries but interestingly with maybe one or two exceptions they nearly never get much response compared to inferior work done by someone from a western country - maybe this is just a coincidence...and not because of ignorance?) I do believe in supporting local and national (where one is currently residing) economy and both here in the UK and the USA it is 'call to arms' as I'm sure most are aware of. Does that mean it's all good value and good quality? Of course not, I see so much poor stuff being made and sold by both UK and US individuals/companies. If anything too many leather crafters here seem too frustrated to (in their eyes) foreign produce. I think they are venting frustration but I also think it is misdirected. A low price (unless it's Etsy) might just be an indicator of ability to mass produce. It's called bussiness and lack of that sense is in general more the real answer if your sales are not going very well. There are certain areas that one will always have difficult to compete with and there is only one solution and that is to work around it (some things are not even justifiable for you to try to compete with - try to be realistic). Can't make it as cheap as someone else? Well then change it so customers will find it justified to pay a bit more for your stuff! How to do that? Well there we have the golden egg, don't we? Don't forget that there also so many leather companies both here and overseas that are super successful. Do they complain in the same way? Basically don't bother to look at other leather workers / companies on how much they charge when you decide your prices. Because you will most likely not know all the reasons why they charge what they charge. Think about your own costs, cover that, then see if people think there is value in paying your asking price for your item. If not - find out why and adjust. While this wasn't really a definite solution to your question , I hope I have made your head spin and given you some ideas! Don't be discouraged - dive in. It's a fun place to be in.