Wizcrafts

If you continue using #277 thread in that machine you may wear it out in no time at all. You may wish to consider replacing critical bearings and moving parts in advance. See if there is a titanium coated hook available for it. Use the best needles money can buy; not Organ brand, with the longest amount of needle below the eye. The slower the taper of the needle, the less stress it places on the machine as it pounds through the dense leather, with a very large needle and thick thread, with which it was not designed to sew.

Yes, I use Tool Magic, which is sold at craft stores like Joann Fabrics. Methinks Harbor Freight Tools may also sell something like it, to coat the jaws and handles on pliers.

What type of machine are you referring to RedDevil? The stitch length variance you describe always occurs on top feed only patchers. Is the machine a Patcher? If so, your only recourse is to pull the material back as the foot feeds it, giving it a little assist. How much this helps depends on how worn out the feed mechanism is. A factory tight Singer Patcher cannot give better then 5 stitches per inch, and this would be into about 1/8 inch of leather. This drops as the thickness increases, unless the foot pressure is rather light. This behavior can also happen on a needle feed only machine, or a double feed machine without a feed dog, but under high top pressure.

Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines and Keystone Sewing both probably have the parts you need.

If the leather band is under 1/8 inch thick, I would use #69 bonded nylon thread, with a #16 needle @ 8 stitches per inch. If I used a #18 needle, I might stretch out the stitches to 7 per inch. A Singer 31-15 is a nice machine for sewing watchbands. Use a narrow Teflon zipper foot with a slot in the center and an edge guide to keep the needle about 1/16" to 3/32" from the edges.

Techsew, a.k.a: Raphael Sewing, in Montreal is a Juki dealer. Also, I used to work for Toronto Industrial Sewing Machines. I don't know if they are still in business, but they were a Juki dealer.

I am guessing that a small patcher bobbin, tightly wound with #69 thread, would sew about 3 or 4 medium length dress belts. It will certainly sew patches onto several vests.

You can do all the things you described in your list of projects, on a patcher. The small bobbin goes a lot farther when loaded with #69 thread. If you decide to use #92, keep a couple bobbins pre-loaded. Buy an extra bobbin case or two. The thickest you can sew on that machine is about 1/4 inch, or possibly up to 5/16 inch, depending on the toughness of the leather. The only real concern you'll have is the tooth tracks left by the presser foot. Also, as the thickness increases, the stitch length decreases. So, you might be getting 5 to the inch into 6 ounces of leather, but only 7 or 8 per inch in 1/4 inch of leather. It depends on how tight the feed mechanism really is and the lift setting for the foot (max).

Okay. I love the stitches laid down by the Union Lockstitch machines. They can be made as loose or tight as one wishes. It can be adjusted for a very light pull, to avoid splitting the cords on linen thread, setting them nicely on the surface. Change the presser foot to the one that has a blade on the front and the stitches lay below the surface. Change the needle bar to the S model and insert the blade and you get a recessed thread channel cut into the bottom. Set to the other extreme, the Union Lockstitch can pull bonded nylon thread so tightly, that it gets recessed into the top grain of the leather, with using a channeling foot. This is a true harness and saddlery machine. Add the fact that you can feather the clutch for one stitch at a time, up to 15 per second, and you have the World's fastest needle and awl stitcher, capable of the tightest stitch in the industry. Oh yeah, the bobbins are 2 1/2" diameter by 3/4" thick inside, tapering to about 3/8" at the top opening. A full bobbin holds about a football field of #277 thread. Operating and re-adjusting a Union Lockstitch requires a learning curve. Ditto for backtacking with one. I do it all the time, but it takes experimentation and some operator trickiness. It's an acquired technique. Then, there is the trick for ending the last stitch with the top thread looped under the work, but not around the bobbin. Baby steps... A weird comparison would be the Union Lockstitch is kind-a like driving a stick and clutch car, where you really need to understand the machine to use it successfully. By contrast, operating a Cobra or Cowboy or Techsew 441 clone, or Adler 205 is like driving a car with an automatic transmission. Set the tensions, choose the correct needle for the thread, load the bobbins, raise the feet, insert the work and sew. Wanna change stitch length? Turn a round nut in or out and the stitch lever moves up (shorter) or down (longer), making shorter or longer stitches. Wanna back-tack? Raise the stitch lever all the way up and voila, you are now sewing backwards, into the same holes. I have sewn on a Randall Lockstitch machine. I would describe it as a quasi religious experience. There was no edge guide, yet I had to maintain a fixed distance from the edges. Then, I had to sew a second row 1/8" in from the outside stitches. The only way to do this is to perform a Vulcan Mind-Meld with the machine and merge into it. I know this sounds like bullshit, but it isn't. It laid down the most perfect stitches I have ever seen, with liquid-waxed, 4 cord, yellow, Barbour's Irish linen thread. The machine makes a sound when it sews, like "tapokita, tapokita ... all day long, machines going tapokita, tapokita.

Until I got my 16.5" cylinder arm Cowboy CB4500, I used my Union Lockstitch for all heavy sewing. It has a 12" body depth, sews slow or fast and is modified to sew 7/8 inch. I use #277 most of the time, although it can sew with #554 with a #4 needle and #5 awl. It is needle feed, jumping foot. It's also for sale. The Cowboy is what is known as a 441 clone, a modified copy of a Juki TSC 441, with triple feed. Mine sews 7/8 inch, with up to #415 thread. I usually use #277, as that is what I stocked up on for the Union Lockstitch, but it handles #346 just as well. The 9" throat depth 441s are used by folks only sewing along edges, or rather narrow work, like small holsters and animal collars and harness. Most people buy the 16.5 " arm 441 machines. I sewed a saddle on one yesterday. They are great for wide patterns, like Western holsters, weight and gun belts with stitched designs, or other large items that have a lot of internal stitching. The 25" models would do just about anything you can imagine. You could sew buggy fenders and tops on them if you know Amish or Mennonites. Campbell Randall lockstitch machines are the Creme Dela Creme of harness stitchers; a step above my Union Lockstitch. They are awl feed, jump foot machines The Adler 205 can be modified to sew 3/4 inch and is a very smooth harness stitcher. It is available in 12" and 16" models and sews with #346 thread. The CB2500 and GA5-1 type machines, based on the Singer 45k25, are intermediate thickness stitchers, with bottom feed only. They handle #346 thread and sew to about 7/16 inch. The teeth leave marks on the bottom layer, but they are okay for flat straps and tack, where the bottom is not usually seen.

If you intend to sew 7/16 (28 oz) to 1/2 inch (32 oz) of leather on a regular basis, a CB2500 or GA5-1 is not the right machine for you. You will be sewing at the maximum capacity, under tremendous foot pressure. A triple feed 441 clone or an Adler 205 or its clones are the better machines. These sew over 3/4 inch, so a half inch won't over stress the mechanism. They can handle up to #415 thread.

That is what I suspected. 28 ounces is 7/16 inch. You have crossed over into the realm of the heavy stitchers. Furthermore, when sewing this much thickness, one would want to use #277 thread. This is within the realm of the medium-heavy stitchers, like the CB2500 and very heavy duty 441 clones. We are supported by member dealers who have advertising banners that appear on top of every forum page. Reloading a page brings up a new group of banners. You can get an idea about the machinery being sold to leather workers by reading these banners and clicking through to the various websites. Once you take an interest in a particular (new) machine, ask for opinions and tips. I guarantee that somebody on this forum will probably have that brand and model. If you choose to get into used machines, anything goes. Some are diamonds, some are stones. Unless you buy a machine from a reputable dealer, you alone will be responsible for all costs of repairing it, should anything go wrong. Contrarily, all of our member-dealers have an excellent track record of supporting their customers with sewing problems. Prices vary a little, by brand, model, accessory package and shipping. In the long run these differences are insignificant, because you will get a quality machine and exceptional after-sale service, when needed. These big stitchers will last decades, if oiled regularly and not abused.

Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines and Techsew are members of this forum also and they both offer leasing through a third party. I think you will find that most of our dealer friends can work out something affordable for you. Machine-wise, there are plenty of sewing machines that can sew 1/4 inch, with say #138 thread, or maybe even #207. But, if you meant that you want to sew 12-16 ounce layers together, creating up to 32 ounces, this calls for the bigger 441 clones (Cowboy, Cobra, Techsew), or at least the GA5-1 and CB2500 type machines. Prices for these machines ranges from about $1300 for the CB2500, up to $2700 for a loaded 441 clone (Juki TSC 441). Perhaps you could be more specific about what you intend to sew and the size of thread you want the machine to handle.

Trox; Your links to the guide supplier, in the big reply, are broken. Could you please repost the links to the supplier's website, making sure that the complete URL is inside the Link field? I would like to see their stuff too.

willisb; Check your bobbin case on the inside end, with the bobbin removed, and see if it has an anti-backlash spring. If so, remove the spring. I'll wager that this cures the over-tight bobbin thread problem.

Not likely Ferg. He stated this: "The thread spools out of the bobbin fine while I'm holding it, but once in the machine, the tension is far too high and is somewhat jerky when I pull on it." Something is pinching the bobbin thread as it feeds out of the bobbin case, past the shuttle carrier and up through the hole in the feeder or throat plate. It might could be the feed dog itself squeezing the thread. Once he hand-wheels the machine with the throat plate off, the cause should reveal itself. Thought! If the bobbin itself is slightly fatter than the space between the clamped on bobbin case and interior of the shuttle, the thread will be squeezed tightly.

I find that many vertical axis shuttle machines can start sewing without holding back the threads, but horizontal axis shuttles cannot. Hold back the threads for a few stitches, or until you backtack over the starting stitch For example, I don't need to hold back the threads on my Singer 66-1, or my Janome New Home embroidery machine, my Kenmore 158.19142, or my Singer 29k172 patcher, all of which have vertical axis bobbins. I do have to hold the threads back on my Singer 15-91 and 31-15 (both class 15 machines), on my National walking foot, my Cowboy CB4500 and my Union Lockstitch machine. The thread holding or not holding procedure seems to be dependent on the geometry of the shuttle.

Every sewing machine in my possession has to have the threads held back for a few stitches. Failure to do so causes exactly the result you are seeing.

Check the bobbin for burrs, or starting thread stubs protruding inside or outside the holes. Try this: Load a bobbin into the case and make sure the thread goes under the spring and pulls out smoothly and easily. Insert the loaded bobbin case into the shuttle and use the top thread to draw up the bobbin thread. Lift the feet and keep the needle up. Pull on the bobbin thread. Is it now tight? If so, unscrew the throat plate and Grok what is going on under there. If not, turn the wheel until the needle is down and starting up.Pull the bobbin thread again. If it tightens up at a certain point of rotation, try to identify what parts are squeezing the bobbin thread. A flashlight, or aim-able work lamp will help. It may help to have a narrow strip of leather under the feet to test under actual sewing. But, check it without any payload first. Check the feed dog plate to see if it is causing the thread to jam.

I meant two hundred dollars. The Consew 206 has a push button stitch length lock over the knob, while the 406 doesn't. It just has detentes behind the knob, like my National. You'd have to ask a dealer for more specific details about any differences.

Two hundred

Here's your answer, as sewn on my National equivalent of the Chandler 406. The leather is 9-10 ounce bridle leather. The needle is a #24 leather point and the thread is #207, top and bobbin. The last one shows the back, which looks much like the top.

The machine is missing the stitch length lever, with which one sets the length of the stitches. Something is also not right with the needle bar. You should not buy that machine without trying it first. If you cannot try it, ask the seller if all parts are sold with the machine. I think it is being sold as is, missing parts.

Piece of cake then, for the CB2500 or GA5-1. These machines don't stress out until you sew about 7/16 inch of leather. If the leather is very hard, the sewable thickness would be reduced. Note, these machines are available with and without reverse. Read the specs carefully to know what you would be getting for a given price, then compare prices. The size of the needle and thread also determines how much thickness of leather can be sewn. It is easier to sew with a #25 leather point needle and #277 pre-lubricated nylon thread, than with a #26 needle and #346 thread. But, if you are going to be sewing 3/8 inch or under, all you'll be using is #277 thread, tops. At 1/4 inch, even #207 will do. This drops the required needle to a #23 or #24. The correlation between the thread/needle/thickness/hardness is related to the strength of the pressure spring that holds down the presser foot. With hard leather, you may need to exert so much foot pressure (to keep the leather from lifting with the ascending needle), that is becomes difficult to feed the package without causing deep tooth penetration on the bottom. A roller foot conversion will reduce the feeding issues, but may leave its own track on top. Heck, any presser foot leaves some trails when a lot of pressure is exerted on top. You could submit a glued together sample of your leather and state the desired thread size and have the dealers sew your leather on their machines. When you get it back, assess the appearance of the top and bottom. These issues are greatly alleviated by a triple feed 441 clone. They have smooth feed dog and two presser feet, along with a moving needle. The pressure springs are even stronger on these machines, which can sew over 3/4 inch, with #346 or larger thread.

I posted this after reading what our new member went through after making this mistake. Actually, computer and website security are my main pastimes and online pursuits. Anybody interested in keeping up with computer and website security is invited to bookmark Wiz's Computer and Website Security Blog I also make frequent security announcements on my Facebook and Twitter profiles.