Wizcrafts

I bought mine from Campbell-Bosworth, in Texas. Here is their catalog page with linen thread.

I have a harness stitcher for sewing dense and/or thick leather, with heavy thread (277 and up). I have a walking foot machine for medium duty leather and vinyl sewing. I use a long arm Singer patcher for odd jobs that benefit from the unique feed system of that machine. Finally, I have home sewing machines for cloth and general garment repairs. If you intend to sew both soft/thin and hard/thick leather, you should buy a minimum of two machines. They could both be cylinder arm machines: one 441 clone for heavy work (~7/8", with #415 thread) and the other a 227 clone, for lighter sewing. They can sew from 1/16" to 3/8 inch of material. The 227 clones are capable of sewing with #138 thread, top and bottom. A few are heavier duty than others and able to use #207 thread, but they are the exception. Most modern flat bed walking foot machines, with large bobbins, will sew up to 3/8", with up to #207 thread. Last, an industrial straight stitch machine with a special roller foot system can sew garment leather quite nicely. They are usually limited to sewing about 1/4" with thread no thicker than #92.

I saw it. If it should turn out that none of your courses of action will work, will you consider a totally different machine? If so, state your requirements for such a machine and we will try to find you some good matches.

Perhaps one of our member dealers is authorized to sell Pfaff machines. If there are any, they might reply to this topic. Until then, I found this model 2335 Plus, on the English version of the Pfaff Industrial machines website. It is an enhanced version of the 335. I found no other cylinder arm machines, but lots of flat beds. Check out the Pfaff website, using the left navigation sidebar.

You should find a Pfaff dealer, with machines in stock, and present your requirements to them. Are you in the USA, Canada, Europe, or elsewhere? Your About Me page says nothing about your location.

I can't help you with Pfaff machines. But, I can tell you that the next step up from the DNU-1541 would be a Juki LU-1508 NH. This machine is factory converted for high lift and system 190 needles. It uses the same big Juki bobbins and accepts all type "111" feet and attachments, of which there are dozens of styles. The next step after that is a CB2500, shown here. This machine is made to sew up to 7/16 all day long, with thread sizes 138 through 346. The foot lifts exactly 1/2 inch and can be replaced with a large roller foot, or "harness" foot. As Art mentioned, you could move up to a 441 clone, based on the Juki 441 type. They sew up to 7/8", with thread sizes 92 through 415. However, there are very few presser foot options available.

Correct, but make those adjustments for the thickness and hardness of leather you will use the most. If you adjust the patcher to sew a perfectly placed knot in 8 ounces of leather, then add a second 8 ounce layer, you could use the take-up helper adjustment to add more lift to the take-up lever. The higher it lifts, during the raising of the trapeze arm, the more pull is exerted on the top thread. Without the helper adjuster, the torsion spring alone will tend to flutter and give up height under a heavy load, or tough bottom leather. Raise the arm with the barrel adjuster to force the lifting of the knots.

I've lost track of what it is you want us to help you with. What do you need to sew, or do with a sewing machine, that is not possible with the machines you have? If it is just a matter of more thickness, a CB2500, GA5-1, or a similar machine, based on the ancient Singer 45k style, can sew 7/16" out of the box, with #138 thread and up. They have drop feed only. If it is a matter of getting specialty presser feet made, there are dealers who can do this for you, for the Juki type machines. What do you need?

Doug; The adjustable barrel inside the trapeze controls the forced lifting of the take-up lever. In older machines, sans the barrel adjuster, the only lift helper is the flat spring on top of the arm, which pushes the take-up lever up as the arm rises at the end of a stitch. Heavy thread, in the maximum sew-able thickness may cause the take-up lever to not fully rise, causing problems with the position of the knots. The barrel adjusters on the newer patchers allows one to increase the lift by force. This ensures that the knots will be well up into thicker or harder leather. Screwing the nut on the end of the adjuster inward creates more mechanical lift, until the machine's maximum is reached. At this point, you can probably bring the knots to the top of 1/4+ inch of leather, all tensions being normal. Backing off the adjuster will let the knots go down more, at the same tensions. If you are sewing thin leather, or vinyl, or zippers, on the patcher, back off the barrel adjuster. If you sew through thick uppers, or 1/4" of leather, crank it up to assist the positioning of the knots.

HCM; Are you aware that you can raise the needle bar and use the longer Pfaff system 190 needles in the Nakajima 380? I use those needles in my National walking foot machine and it gained an additional 1/8 inch sewing capacity. It does involve re-timing the machine, as you raise the bar to position the longer needle's eye to the pick-up point.

Use that combination as decorative stitching or for layers that don't expect to be under a lot of stress. The locked stitches are only as strong as the weakest thread (138). I wouldn't use that 277/138 thread combination on mission critical projects (e.g. Police gear, competition shooting gear, weight lifters' belts)..

Timing check, 101: I suspect that the bunched up thread around the bobbin has thrown the timing off. The rotating shuttle is screwed onto its shaft with two machine screws. They have probably lost their good grip by the jammed thread. Clear out all thread from the bobbin area. Remove the throat cover plate, then rotate the wheel by hand until the needle goes all the way down, then starts to ascend. The rotating pickup point should pass dead center on the right side of the needle's scarf area, about 1/8inch, or slightly more above the actual eye. If the point passes the scarf and eye after the eye of the needle is above it, you need to loosen the shuttle retaing screws and back it up until it passes inside the scarf, above the eye. Do the reverse if the needle is too far back from the ascending needle. It is also possible that the needle bar has moved vertically, but not as likely as the shuttle itself. If you do find the shuttle needs timed, be sure to tighten down its screws as much as possible, by hand.

I had a Singer 111w155 for a while, years ago. It came with a few spools of #138 thread which it handled flawlessly. I have no doubt that you can push it up a notch to #207 thread. But, the bobbins are the smaller standard class 15 size and they won't hold much #207 thread. So, if we agree on #138 thread, top and bottom, you would stock up on #22 and #23 needles. Leather point needles, type 135x16, work better that regular round point (135x15) when sewing leather. Some leather point needles produce a zig-zag stitch pattern. If you find that objectionable, buy triangle point needles only. If you want to experiment with #207 thread, buy a pack of #24 needles. Also, buy a dozen bobbins. Don't forget Lily Oil. When you sew with thick thread and a big needle (#23 and up), you place a lot of stress on the machine to hold down the leather as the needle and thread (with the locked stitches) ascends. To compensate, turn the top pressure spring clockwise, to exert more pressure on the feet. Wide, double toe presser feet are better able to hold down leather under such stress than single or narrow feet.

I would say that your particular machine has reached its capacity, at 15 mm, with that thread and needle combination. I sent you a PM with some detailed things to do to verify that the timing is set to the best position. Note, that the timing changes as the stitch length changes. If the machine is set to sew perfectly at 6 stitches per inch and you move the lever down to sew 4 to the inch, the timing may be out. This gets even more critical in reverse. Let me convert math... 6 spi = ~4+ mm stitches. 4 spi =~6+ mm stitches. Maybe there is too much wear in the combined feed mechanism? Is the needle bar tight? Is the feed dog tight? Is the inside foot coming down at the right moment to hold the leather in place just as the needle beings to penetrate it? Does the inner foot move exactly in concert with the needle and feed dog?

Here's a photo of the trailing uni-pod "outer" foot set.

I like that idea about chamfering the top of the needle slot in the feed dog, even when used with the stock throat plate. My friend at M&M Leather ran into a problem where the stock feed dog and throat plate had too much width for some of the jobs to be sewn (they were falling into the slot). So, he had a friend in a machine shop grind down the sides of the feed dog, to just clear the hole and had a new throat plate made to just clear the feeder. The plate's slot was also shortened to match the actual travel of the feeder, at the longest stitch length. This alleviated the trouble that first cropped up when using the Cobra to sew garment leather belts, chap straps or very narrow straps for things like purses. The narrow feeder still moves the bigger projects, so it was a win-win to create the narrow set. For those moving into 441 Sewing 201, if you install one of the feed dogless throat plates, your stitch length will decrease. You can alleviate the drag somewhat by backing off the top foot pressure adjuster, over the presser foot bar.. You may still need to move the stitch lever down a bit to regain the previous stitch length. Be careful to not back off the pressure so far that the leather lifts as the needle pulls out of it!

I wish I had one of those miniature milling machines. I would take other people's holster and stirrup plates and mill off steel from the bottom to allow the feed dog to remain in place. As things are now, one must remove the feeder to install the slotted and raised throat plates. On a new machine, you might need to employ the Green Giant to loosen the big screw that secures the feeder.

Doug; I don't know what you are referring to as if that was a lot of information. I only typed 4167 characters, encompassing just 752 words. Shouldn't take ya more than a minute to read it all! Some of my security blog posts are double that amount of characters and words.

There are a few types of (new) machines that will sew both bags and holsters. These are all cylinder arm machines, not flat beds. I'll list the common models below. It's up to you to determine how to afford any of them. CB2500 / GA5-1 with or without reverse. These machines have a 10.5" arm length, large bobbins and big needles and can sew with #346 bonded nylon, or 5 cord linen thread. They are limited to no more than 7/16 inch of leather under the solid foot. Drive is performed by a feed dog on the bottom (with teeth). The marks can be rubbed out with a spoon, or modeling spoon, or slicker. 227R type machine, like the CB227R or Techsew 2700. These are alos 10.5 inch arm machines, but not as heavy duty as the above machines. They do, however, have triple feed and interchangeable presser feet and all manner of accessories that can be bolted onto the top plate. Limited to #138 or 207 thread, they can sew 3/8 inch of leather, or anything else. 441 clones (of the Juki 441) are cylinder arm machines with triple feed and a smooth feed dog. Most sold here are equipped with what we call a harness foot set. This consists of a double toed outside foot, with no metal in the center, and an inside foot that moves with the needle, to feed the material. These machines have arm lengths of 9, 16.5 and 25 inches. They all take up to $145 bonded, or 6 cord linen thread, have huge bobbins and can sew about 7/8 inch of material. We have dealers on this forum who specialize in setting up and selling/maintaining these 441 type machines. Top brands include Cowboy, Cobra and Techsew. Also, there are similar machines sold by Artisan, Ferdco and Weaver Leather. Boss hand operated portable stitcher. This machine is driven by your right arm pulling and pushing on a big lever on the right end of the machine. It has a limited depth inside of only about 6 inches or so. It does use big needles and can sew up to 3/4 inch, with $346 thread, or heavier. The machine needs to be bolted onto a work table. It is okay for prototyping jobs and sewing close to to the outside edge of thick straps or holsters. It is not so good if you need to rotate a large piece of leather towards the inside, such as when sewing up, around and down a holster. It may not fit inside the body, or bend up enough against the body to allow the return row of stitching. Your arm will get tired quickly if you use it to sew a long stitch run. As for pricing, the GA5/CB2500 types generally sell for about $99 without and $1300/1400 with reverse. They come with a special cutout industrial table, and a servo motor. The 227 type machines are typically about $1500 - $1600 and usually come on a pedestal type movable table. The 441 clones usually start at about $1800 - $1900, for a 9" arm, $2100 - $2500 for 16.5" arms (depending on accessories), to about $3000 for the 25" models. The Boss manual stitchers sell for $1400 new. Used, they usually go for about $700 to $800, or so. If you cannot afford any of these machines, look for or inquire about a used 227 type or a Singer 153, with walking feet. These typically sell for about $400 to $700, depending on the dealer and condition of the machine and the table/motor sold with it. All machines must be shipped by truck, so if you can't go to a dealer's location, be prepared to spend another 2 to 3 hundred for shipping on a pallet. Since you have no previous experience with industrial or any sewing machines, I would advise against buying from Craigslist, or the run of the mill eBay sellers. You are going to run into problems until you learn the ins and outs of setting up and maintaining/troubleshooting your machine. Ebay dealers may not offer any support, or limited email support. Phone support may only be for returns under warranty (if any). Most used machines are sold with a very limited warranty, if any. If you buy a used machine, try to get it from one of our member dealers, like Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, Keystone Sewing, Techsew, (I suspect that Cobra Steve has some used machines)

Yes, a piping foot is the same as a welting foot. Piping is sometimes the inside cord and sometimes the finished round product. You can buy premade cloth, leather and vinyl piping, or make it yourself with rope or piping cord. There are four types of piping/welting presser feet. Standard piping foot cut-off back piping foot double piping foot double cut-off piping foot The standard foot or feet have a channel going all the way from the front to the back of the left side of the outer (walking foot) or single (straight stitch) foot. If walking foot, the inner foot also has a channel or arc cut into it, although it is rather short. The cut-off style uses the same inside foot (for walking feet), but, the back is ground off and radiused to allow the foot to turn sharp corners. Upholsterers often turn a sharp corner on covers and replacement coverings. A standard welting foot pushes the material into a straight line and fights the operator around hard curves. The double channel piping sets are used to lay down two rows at the same time, of the same size piping. This is a decorative effect used by upholsterers. Zipper walking feet have one toe: right or left, plus a narrower than usual inside foot. Straight stitch zipper feet are either movable left to right, or pre-made for sewing on the left or right edge. The single feet have a wide flat profile, with a cutout for the needle. You can literally sew right up the the side of the raised edges of any kind of project with a flat zipper foot. Unfortunately, the same does not apply to walking foot sets. The inside foot occupies at least 3/16" width, placing the needle about 1/16" away from the edge being sewn. I do have one very narrow left toe set that gets very close to the raised area, which is on its right side. In the brave new world of the 441 clone machine, the presser foot design is nothing like the usual walking or flat foot machines. The standard feet that ship with the machines from China are a very wide set, with aggressive teeth on the bottom. They have a matching feed dog, with similar teeth on it. This set is known as a blanket foot set. It is used to provide flawless traction for sewing blankets, buffing wheels, tarps, awnings, parachutes, etc. Most leather workers don't want to have tooth marks on either side of the leather, so, the dealers contract to have a smooth top feed dog made and what are known a harness feet. These feet have no steel in the rear middle area. They have a single left, or right toe, or a combination double toe configuration. The double toe is now shipped to the end customer as standard equipment. The dealers remove the blanket feet and the feed dog with the teeth and replace them with a harness foot set and smooth feed dog. There are very few optional presser feet for the 441 clones. Were that they were Adler 205 clones, which some of the Cowboy machines are, then one could buy optional Adler feet for special uses. A single toe Adler foot has steel in the rear middle section. Some jobs are better sewn without any steel in the middle, others benefit from the extra support provided by rear-middle steel on the work. Don't forget, these machines are triple feed and have a moving inside foot. One type of outer foot that is experimental is a single-center toe, behind the inside foot. This is either cut from an unwanted blanket foot, or made in a metal shop. Such a foot would only provide support to the leather behind the inner foot, to the rear of it's maximum travel. It would allow one to sew handcuff type cases with a narrow stitching flange, right side up. It could also be used to repair stitches on shoe out-soles. I think that most dealers have a grinder, sander and buffer that could create such a uni-pod rear foot from a blanket foot. Bob Kovar made one and a picture of it is on his webpages for the CB3500, 4500 and 5500 machines. Go to, say, the CB4500 page, find the underlined link for "See more photos of our optional pressor feet and throat plates for the CB3500, 4500 and 5500 models."and click on it to reveal a slideshow along the bottom of the page. One of the feet is the uni-pod set. It was experimental.

Doug; I'm sure there are dozens of sewing machine videos on YouTube, many of which show a welting foot in action. With the proper arch (size) welting set you can lay a stitch line right along the side of the raised portion, which contains the cord. The material is formed around the cord and flattened at the bottom, by the feet. You can use a single toe outside foot to sew close to the round edge of piped material. But, you'll never get as close as you can with a welting foot set, of the proper width. Upholsters usually have two or more walking foot machines. One is setup with a standard double toe foot. The other is typically setup with a 1/4" welting foot set. If they need a different size of piping, they swap out the feet for the desired size. I have a very narrow zipper foot set, only 1/4" total width, but it has teeth on both feet. It is great for sewing in zippers! Most walking foot feet are smooth bottomed. There are only a few types that have teeth. Those are zipper and binding feet. Edge binding, running through a 90 degree side-feed edge binder/bias tape attachment, benefits from the added traction provided by teeth on the feet. Bob Kovar stocks most walking foot sets. Call him (866-362-7397) and tell him what size cording you need to sew and how thick the covering material is going to be. The size of the foot set is determined by the overall thickness/diameter of the covered cord/material around it.

I think you meant to say the left toe foot, which is away from the edge guide, on the left side of the inside presser foot. The right toe foot sticks out about 1/8" to the right of the inside foot and will interfere with the edge guide, if the guide is set very close to the strap or project being sewn. I almost never use the right outside foot. The left toe foot has one toe, on the left of the needle and inside foot. The right foot has one toe to the right of the inside foot. If this foot is used, you will have to stitch about 1/4' inside the outer edge. With the left toe foot you can get a 1/8" in stitch line, while using the roller guide.

Email response time on AOL depends on who you send your email through. I have had delays up to one week in delivery of email sent to Bob, or other AOLers. At other times the email was never delivered at all, not even to a junk folder. They apply their own blocklists and have their own definition of what constitutes spam. Rather than let members decide, AOL's mail servers make a decision first. If they get it wrong, and they do, the email in question is held up, or rejected, with no notice to the intended recipient, or the sender. In fact, the only notices I have ever seen from AOL, are for an unknown account (misspelled), or a full account not able to receive any more messages.

I have had to repair very old rifle cases and golf bags for collectors, or people restoring items from the parents or Grand Parents. These items were sewn on Puritan chainstitch machines, using 6 cord waxed linen thread. Some of these items were over 60 years old. The stitches were fine; the leather need patching! My Union Lockstitch machine likes 4 through 6 cord left twist linen thread. But, after buying a bargain brand once, I recommend only buying Barbour's Irish Linen Thread. It costs more, but it's well worth the money.

It could be that the top thread is binding on the way to the needle. Bob Kovar made a video showing , but it is the same for most of the other 441 clone machines. If you thread your new machine the same way, your knots should be in a better location, everything else being equal.