D.A. Kabatoff

My preference is the same as Andy's as well. I also like a cantle that is laid back some like the tree pictured. Keith, I don't find the points of the cantle bite me at all... that said, I'm fairly skinny through the legs and butt and like a long seat length (6'1" 178lbs and I like a 16" seat). I don't like to be against the cantle unless as Andy put it, I'm at risk of being blown out the back. I only build all leather ground seats and the strainer tail always goes through the cantle gullet so it doesn't affect my cantle dish at all. My finished groundseat ends up with about 1" or dish or slightly more. My cantles are always between 12-13 inches wide. Darcy

Denise, I'm getting the same message about content being unavailable... maybe it's an issue for computers north of the border. Darcy

good points Steve. I wonder if real apprenticeships were available today, how many would-be saddlemakers would have the patience and perseverance to cut straps and rub edges for a year, for next to nothing in pay, before they even got to watch how a groundseat went in. From some of the oldtimers I've talked to, apprenticeships often amounted to nothing more than slave labour! Darcy

Nice work Shelley. Sure is a satisfying feeling making something useful with your hands and then seeing it perform the way it was intended. Making them pretty as well is that much better! Darcy

Clay, looks like a nice saddle but unfortunately while your photos got clearer, they got so small you can't see much. Darcy

Andy, nice work on both saddles... gives me some inspiration for a saddle I'm working on with a similar fork! I don't mind fitting the cover without a welt as much as carving a fork with undercut. I get used to carving slickforks and always find swells more challenging. Are you planning anything for Kamloops next year? Hope to see you up there. Darcy

JW, Troy, you guys are probably right about the stirrups... A good number of years back I did a favor for a fellow when I lived in Japan. Turns out he was selling Syd Hill Australian saddles and tack which are a decently made factory type Aussie saddle. Oneday the UPS guy shows up at my door in Canada with a saddle that this guy decided to send to me as a thankyou and although I had no real interest in Aussie saddles I decided to give it a few rides. It had a pair of aluminium stirrups on it which is the only thing I really remember about the saddle because everytime I went to saddle up my shins took a thrashing while carrying this thing. I'm sure it wasn't as bad as I remember and proabably no worse than any other stirrup I've used but for some reason when ever I see aluminium stirrups i have a knee-jerkin reaction to them... might be the transition into my 40's, bones start aching and the mind starts fading! Darcy

Hi Jw, That's a good looking saddle, I don't see too many forks like that up my way. Nice work on the braid. Love the saddle but my shins ache just looking at those stirrups. Darcy

Oz, do you know of a supplier of quality pigskin who would ship small quantities (three or four hides) to North America? I have been wanting to use it for inlaid seats on western saddles but it has become impossible to find here. Darcy

I just finished reading the book as well and really enjoyed it as well. Great photos and as John mentioned, it's not meant to be a "how to" book. Some interesting California history in the first two chapters. I haven't seen the soft cover version but the hardcover is a beautifully produced book. Darcy

I know exactly how you feel Bob, I just look at what I've got on the go and get a sick feeling like I want to throw out forty hours of work and $700.00 worth of leather and go chop wood instead. I think what I really feel is that I should be able to do better but after about three or four days I calm down and remember some of these guys have been doing what they are doing for longer than I've been alive. It's hard to stay on that slow, steady path of improvement when you can see what is possible with the same tools. Darcy

Some of us wait all year for this catalog to come online... a shot of creative inspiration! My link Darcy

Huntet, check out this link and you will see several slick fork trees that look quite similar. The first three trees are all "true Wades" in the sense that the stock thickness (the top of the fork measured from the front of the lip to the back side of the horn) is 5"s (measured in the wood before the tree is rawhided), the horns are wood posts, and the fork sits as close to a horse's back as possible. The first tree measures 8 1/2"s and the second and third trees are 8"s wide which is about as slick a fork as you can make. If you were to examine the three trees in person you'd see the second and third trees are almost flat on the sides of the fork... the first tree is slightly more rounded. My link The fourth tree looks like a Wade to the inexperienced eye but it's actually a "modified Ray Hunt" style tree. A Ray Hunt style tree has a stock thickness of 4 1/2"s and other than that one measurement, is identical to a regular Wade. This tree has been modified to provide more clearance through the gullet so the fork is about a 1/4" taller than a regular Ray Hunt tree. The next two slick forks don't really have names as I had them built to my own specs which don't match up to anything in particular. The first one has a stock thickness of 4 1/4"s which is a shorter stock thickness than a Taylor fork (4 1/2") and thicker than a Weatherly (3 3/4"). The second one is a 4" stock thickness which gives it an appearance similar to a Weatherly fork. The first swell fork measures 12 1/2"s wide and the second is 12"s wide... only a 1/2" difference but a very different shape to the swell. You should be able to see that you have alot of options when it comes to the shape of the fork. As Denise mentioned, the groundseat shape is for the most part independant of the fork shape and most saddlemakers would be able to put the same seat in anyone of the trees on that page. I say for the most part because some saddlemakers build their groundseat up onto the backside of the fork while other makers don't. The part of the seat your butt occupies may feel the same between the two styles of groundseat but the shape of the seat towards the front may look different. Darcy

thanks everyone for the nice words. Darcy

Hi Ross, That's a nice looking saddle. You are starting to take on a recognizable style of your own and your efforts show. As far as any critique, I think most of what I see has been mentioned by Troy and Keith. I think it's important to keep in mind the style of saddle that appeals to you and your customers. You don't want to assimilate into something that isn't what you have in mind. To give you an example of what I mean, if you look at the shape of your seat jockey... From the rear ear it immediately slopes forward and as it comes up towards the screw under the swell it slopes forward. This is a very different style than the type of jockey that I like to make. My jockey typically comes straight down and sometimes even slopes backward from the rear ear and then does the same towards the front of the jockey. The reason I mention this is because each style presents it's own challenge in trying to keep the overall balance of the saddle. My seat jockey will typically appear larger than yours and will naturally cover more of the rigging and transition into the front jockey in a different way. It's not to say one way is right or wrong but it will confuse the issue for you if you try to combine the two styles. It's been mentioned that you need more leather directly below the fork but this will probably require changes to your seat jockey and perhaps even your rigging pattern and fender size to achieve the balanced look you want. I think you'd do well to take a look at J.W. Wright's saddles as your seat jockey is similar in style. If you look at his front jockeys you will notice that they are deeper than your own and you will see how he has tackled the challenge of transitioning them into the seat jockeys. Look at the size and shape of his rigging pattern and you can see how it differs from your own and what changes you need to make it appear balanced. Two points I'd reiterate that are unrelated to jockey style: I'd agree that you need to shorten up the front of your skirt by a good inch. On your cantle binding you probably have room for three maybe four more stitches before the binding disappears under the seat... i'd sew just as low as you can. A couple minor points that are just my own preference, the line you scribed into the seat and fenders, I would move that closer to the edges of the leather so that it's in a similar position to the beaded line on the rear jockeys and rigging. The other point would be the beaded line on your rigging above the rigging plate is getting quite close to the stitching... it looks nice when there is the same amount of leather on either side of the stitch line. Other than that you are doing smooth, functional work and the pride you have in your work shows. Darcy

Schemi, who made the tree you are using? I'd suspect it's a factory made tree if you need to fill in dents... one more benefit of handmade trees is that you don't have to waste your time filling in those dents. If you rough up the rawhide with coarse sand paper you can use a wood filler putty on those dents or if they are too deep you can use a 1" whole punch to cut some plugs which can be skived around the edges and then glued into the indents. Darcy

Troy, that saddle is beautiful; it's a pleasure to look at a saddle and see all the little details finished so smoothly. I'm guessing that cantle binding wasn't too much fun to sew being flipped down some and the leading edge so far forward... looks like seven or eight stitches per inch? Nice work! Darcy

Nice Saddle Steve... without any carving it has a refined look to it that shows your fine workmanship. Darcy

Andy, that buckstitching is something else! I'm not much of a fan for it either but what you've done looks like a modern revival of an old trend... similar to the way kids are wearing "skinny jeans" again but they aren't the same as they were twenty five years ago. Nice work. Darcy

Hey Pete, one other trick worth mentioning... You've probably experienced when you are trying to smooth bubbles out of a fork cover and you press one bubble down and it pops up in a different spot. If you still have a few small bubbles don't worry too much about them because when you go to glue that cover down the bubbles will be easier to get rid of. Like Keith mentioned, thick leather will compress and absorb alot, especially when wet. When I glue a swell cover down it is slightly wetter than cased leather. I start by centering the cover over the horn and then pulling the front of the cover down on both sides so that I have an even lip across the front. Next, I pull down the centers of both sides so that the cover is square to the tree... don't worry about tacking down the material in between the lower edges of the front lip and the lower sides of the fork. Next I position the tab that will go through the handhole. At this point the fork is glued down in four points on each side of the tree: the lower front lip, the lower side/center of the fork, the corner of the handhole, and around the horn. Because these points are holding the leather fast it will now be easier to push the bubbles down between the points and not have them pop up elsewhere. Work slowly between the points and work the bubbles downward to the edges of the fork cover. hope that helps a bit. Darcy

Ross, that is a fine looking saddle! Good looking seat shape, nice balanced lines, and tastefully decorated. I think if there was one thing to pick on it would still be the front jockey corner... my taste is for a more rounded corner. Other than that I'd say great work! Darcy

Simon, I can't say for sure from the photos but from what I see it appears the edger may be too narrow for the thickness of leather and you may be trying to compensate and take off more edge than it's capable of. Are your pressing down quite firmly on the tool as you push it along? If you are, it may be pressing a crease into the top of the leather and still only taking a small amount of leather off the edge. If the tool is sharp, you need very little down-ward pressure on the tool as you push it along... the tool should only be removing material and not be leaving any kind of mark on the top of the leather. If you think what I've described may be happening, make sure the tool is very sharp and then try it on a piece of 4-5 oz leather and see what the edge looks like. The only other thing I can think of is the cutting edge looks fairly flat like a french edger instead of curved like a common western edger or a bissonette edger. Darcy

If you are getting the type of edge in your profile, you may be using the wrong kind of edger (actually, I have never seen an edger capable of making that type of concave edge). On 8-10oz latigo I use either a #3 or #4 Bob Douglas common edger and get the rounded profile you are looking for. Perhaps you could post a photo of the edge of your tool so we can see why you are getting the undersired result. Darcy

.....it's basically a bissonette edger with the tip folded over...and they work quite nicely. Darcy

Bobby, as a saddlemaker, i'd sure never consider you a "second class citizen". In fact, I view toolers such as yourself in the same way I view treemakers... you guys (and gals) never get the credit you really deserve but I'm always in awe of your talent. When I look at a saddle I notice the fine details of saddlemaking...handstitching, smooth leather work, proper function. When I look at trees, I look for the proper fit, how the bars will accomodate a groundseat, and how smooth the rawhiding is. When I look at floral carving, whether it's on a saddle or other type of gear, I appreciate the flow of lines, the depth of the work and the smoothness of how the tools were used. Regardless of what it is, I can sure appreciate when someone has the skill, perserverance, and talent to turn out fine work. Darcy