D.A. Kabatoff

Ross, Very nice saddle overall! I'd agree with Troy about the rear billet and seat jockey. To take things a step further and in no way diminish the smooth, functional work you have done, I'd take a closer look at the front, rear, and middle seat jockey lines. My eye is a bit distracted for a couple or reasons. Your rear jockeys maintain an even distance from the edge of the skirt except for the portion under the rear rigging to where they disappear under the seat jockey... they start to move away from the skirt. I prefer to see that distance even, all the way around the skirt. Because the lower edge of your front jockey matches up with the lower edge of the rear jockey, this has caused your front seat jockey to appear narrow (up and down) directly below the fork. Because this area is so narrow it exposes more of your flatplate rigging which then seems "heavy" compared to the front jockey and throwing things out of balance. I think if you kept the lower edge of the rear jockey to skirt edge distance even, all the way round, it would require you to drop the front jockey as well as the seat jockey, hiding a bit more of the rigging and giving a more balanced look to the saddle. This is a very small adjustment but when added to the graceful lines of your skirt and seat jockey, I think would give this saddle a nice look. Darcy

Good point Rickyfro! I am, and always will be my worst critic. When I spend hours stamping a fender or jockey or any piece of leather, I see every little detail as it appears and I know what is acceptable to me. I judge my tools by what I see as I am using them and over the years have determined which tools are worth spending more money on. I started with a handful of thickly chromed tools... mostly basket stamps and geometrics that I used once. I had seen the work of good saddlemakers and had tried to imitate their work with the Crafttools I had only to be sorely disappointed... worst money I ever spent. In my case, it didn't matter if I was only going to make one saddle or a thousand, I knew what quality stamping was and it wasn't coming from the tools I had. My first handmade tools came from Ellis Barnes, Barry King, and Jeremiah Watt... even among these tools I was able to see quality differences and numerous times sent back what I thought were mediocre tools, ie. basket stamps that didn't have clean rope impressions or geometric stamps that weren't square enough. Even though I was still making my first saddle and didn't know if i'd ever make a second one, I figured if I was willing to put in the time to basket stamp a whole saddle evenly and straight, then the tools I was using had better be leaving a damn nice impression. When I started floral carving, tool quality became even more evident and I quickly noticed the differences between poorly designed bevellers that left tracks no matter how you used them, and shaders that didn't have the right shape to achieve the results I wanted, or as Jim mentioned, bargrounders that weren't perfect. It was the same deal, I didn't care the price of the tool ( not because I had unlimited funds... I could barely afford the Tandy tools), or how many times I planned to use them, if I couldn't achieve the results I expected, they were junk, at any cost! The point to my above rambling is that I have noticed over the years that you can show some people a cantle binding that was sewn perfectly at 7 stitches per inch and you can show them a crooked binding sewn poorly at 4 stitches per inch and they just don't see or care about the difference; The same applies to leather carving, some people don't see or care about the fine details while they are stamping and when the piece is finished, they don't see the whole of their work as looking any different than the next person's work. Stamping tools aren't like a power drill or a hammer where a cheap or expensive version will provide the same final results. Properly desinged tools will achieve better results. In the end, it may have to do as much with the kind of person you are as with the kind of tools you can afford. When I started tooling at thirty years of age, I had a much more refined eye for quality, and determined mind to achieve those kinds of results than most boy scouts or 4H club members. I've attached a hi-res photo of a rear-jockey frog to give you an idea of what some people expect from their tools. I recently sent this set of bargrounder back to the maker because some of the berries are slightly smaller than others and one of the grounders doesn't leave as deep an impression as others. Some people may not care about this small difference, but I do and you couldn't sell me a set of grounders in the condition these ones were for any price, I'd always pay more for the ones that performed the way I want and that goes for all my tools. Darcy

I hated paying the price for my irons but I'm sure glad I did it. I agree with Celtic, just buy the sizes that you need the most. There is a fellow on Ebay selling pricking irons that are very pricey but he sells them in both left and right which I haven't seen from the Blanchard ones that I use, and I'm not sure if Joseph Dixon produces them either. Regardless of which manufacturer you choose, good ones are always expensive. Darcy

Richard, if you aren't using a leather that was factory buffed on the flesh side, I'd sand the area to be carved to as smooth as you can working your way down to a fine grit paper. It'll allow your carving to show up crisper; if you sand after you carve, it can sometimes make it look a bit mottled. Darcy

JW, nice, smooth work! Looks really comfortable. Darcy

Hi Franca, I was curious why you aren't a fan of inskirt rigged saddles? I know they gained a bad reputation, usually by word of mouth, which is solely based on the poor workmanship and materials of some cheaply made factory saddles. I've noticed a trend of people starting to want them more in the last few years. If made properly, they can last a long time, they are very strong, hold the saddle well, and have less bulk under leg. Darcy

Franca, you might have to clarify what your friend was asking. It's my understanding that Dale partnered up with Ray to produce a line of saddles to meet the needs of Ray's students. Dale contracted the saddles out to several fine saddlemakers and I believe held a training session with them so that they all understood how the saddles needed to be built. The line of saddles are often referred to in the way your friend did. I can't comment on exactly what the tree specs were but presumably they had the 4 1/2" stock on the fork. I doubt any other modifications were made to the original Wade stlye of fork. Steve Mason, who sometimes visits this site was one of the saddlemakers involved in making that line of saddles, perhaps he can shed some more light on the subject. If your friend was simply referring to the difference between a Ray Hunt style Wade tree versus a regular Wade tree, the answer is the only difference is the fork stock thicknes. Darcy

Hi Andy, great looking saddle, nice combination of carlos and flowers! Is the saddle lined in the fenders and seat or is the stitching for decoration? I like the shape of your cantle, from the photo of the cantle face it almost looks like it has a bit of a bevel? I heard a rumor that you may be judging the Kamloops show next year, is it true? Darcy

Hi Ryan, beautiful saddle! If you make it up to Kamloops this year with that kind of work, we're all in trouble! Really like the seat layout and the carving is great. Also like the angle you ran your fork cover welts. Smooth work! Darc

Brent, seems my little corner of the frozen north isn't so frozen. Had the longest summer I can remember and the rains are just starting to come (about a month and a half late). I have the same casing problems as you; Being in a coastal rainforest plays havoc with my leather casing. It takes about two full days to air-dry leather here and three or four if I leave it under the sheepskin before it's ready to carve... when it's finally ready for carving it suddenly has an extraordinary ability to dry out. Good thing I'm in a run of plain roughouts right now, gives me a chance to get some of my sanity back. Darc

Hi Brent, I'm not sure how I missed this the first time around but really nice work! It can be difficult making a short saddle look balanced but with the shape of your skirts and fenders and seat jockeys, you don't even notice the difference in length. Looks like you did some nice stitching on the horn cap and cantle binding and your floral carving just gets smoother every saddle. Darc

Todd, because there are a few different companies making awl blades and needles plus a variety of of styles of both awls and needles, it is very difficult to provide numbers of which awl goes with which needle with which thread size. Your best bet is to get a feel for what you are doing and try to sew with a needle that has an eye just big enough to get the thread size you are using through it. Try to choose an awl that will allow you to make a hole that is big enough that you don't need to use pliers to pull your needle and thread through it yet makes a hole small enough that it closes up tightly around your thread. You may or may not have seen in previous threads that the overwhelming majority of people agree that Bob Douglas's awl blades are the best thing going and if you try a few different ones versus Bob's, you'll quickly agree. If you speak to Bob and let him know what kind of work you are doing and what size of thread you are using, he should be able to send you something appropriate. It will then be a matter of trying a few needles to find which works best for the type of work you are doing. Darcy

Hi Elk66, good work starting with a good tree and getting out and using the saddle! from your photos it's hard to give any critique good or bad. You started with a decent tree that should fit horses well and assuming your rigging went in square, you've got 2/3rds of the equation. It would be good to see some larger photos from the side and top to see if your seat shape is a good one. You mentioned that you've got over a 100 hours in it so you should have a good idea if it's causing you any problems. Beyond that it becomes a matter of making a few more saddles to smooth out the little aesthetic details such as ear cuts, hand sewing, rear jockeys that are tight all the way around the cantle and without gaps along the back of the skirts... the list goes on and on but it's hard to comment on those details from the photos. I think if you get some good closeups of the saddle then people can give you a better idea of what's looking good and what needs work. Darcy

looks like four of the five bag punches I wanted were previously sold but the loops irons are still a good deal and some of them are available in different thicknesses. Darcy

Hi Bruce, thanks for that information. I took your advice and tried calling them... the gal I spoke to said that she is in the process of going through the orders they've received and deleting the items from their website. It sounds like things haven't really changed as far as their software is concerned and there is still a chance of ordering items that have been sold. Presumably, the tools will go to whoever orders them first and since the sale just when online in the last day, I'm guessing our best chance of avoiding buying sold tools is to order sooner than later. Darc

thanks Bruce, couldn't sleep this morning so instead I filled out my bag punch collection and a bunch of loop irons that are nicely priced... also couldn't resist the pricking iron. One thing I did notice after I checked out that concerned me a little is I went back over the list and noticed that the items I had just paid for were still available to be added to a shopping cart. Not sure if that changes were I to try and checkout a second time with them... guess I'll have to wait and see. Darc

Curbstrap, if you look at the illustration Barra provided you'll notice that what many people refer to as their "pin bones" are further apart on women than men. There is a common misconception about women needing a narrower seat than men. In fact, a wider, flatter seat will be more comfortable for a woman. If the seat is made too narrow it becomes a wedge between the pinbones that has the effect of pushing the pin bones outwards and creating discomfort. The waist of the tree should be narrower than a typical tree. By waist, I mean the lower edges of the bars, roughly in the center of the tree should have some of the bar cut away. If you look at a tree from the side, this gives the effect of the lower edge sweeping upward about 1/2" (depending on the treemaker it could be more or less) more than a typical tree. The point of this is to help create a relief area for a womans thighs which are typically fuller on the inside of the thigh compared to a mans. I suppose it depends on the thickness of the rider's legs if this makes much of a difference or not but making the groundseat narrower will definitly have a detrimental effect on most female riders. Darcy

Priam, When I do a basket stamp on a slick fork, I take a ruler and draw a guide line down the center of where my pattern will be. As long as you are not using a flexible ruler that gets bent into the curves of the fork, your guide line will be a straight line. Each single basket stamp is usually too small on it's own to cause much distortion to the straight line. By starting in the middle of your pattern and working outwards to two different edges, you minimize the distortion through the forks contours enough that the eye can barely detect it when it's finished. As for the actual stamping, make sure the fork is properly cased when you stamp it. I try to install my fork cover fairly wet and as it air-drys I wait until it is about the consistency of cased leather. It is very difficult to get a fork cover properly cased for stamping once it has dried out completely. The other trick is to use your drawdown strap on the saddle with an emphasis on pulling the front end of the tree down. If your drawdown stand wasn't designed in the shape of a horse's withers, you may need to put something under the rear of the bars to raise them up and lower the front end. If your tree is cranked down nice and tight and your fork cover is properly cased, you should be able to get the best impression possible. The only other thing I could suggest is using a heavy maul with a basket stamp. I don't know the weight of mine but it's one of the large ones that Barry King sells. Take your time because your tool is often at an odd angle and can easily fly out of your hands with a miss-hit of the maul. Darc

Jon, that is one great looking saddle! Love how smooth the earcuts and cantlebinding are. Great lines on the skirts and fenders. Darc

Bob, fact is, a number of the well know saddlemakers out there use tins because they are quicker. People can call it a shortcut or whatever they want but people who are concerned about making a living need to find quicker ways to do things. Does this make it infereior? Obviously not in all cases... I don't believe the likes of Dale Harwood and Steve Mecum would use a tin to save time if they thought it was inferior to an all leather seat. I do believe that if they thought it was just as good as a leather seat that they would do it to save time. Perhaps it's a shortcut without the negative conotations attached to the word. Another scenario is a saddlemaker who only ever learned how to put a seat tin in and has never had a reason to try otherwise. I learned to put a leather seat in and have never had a good reason to try putting a tin in, especially after seeing how they go in... I've seen Dale Harwood install one at a TCAA class and I've seen Jeremiah do it on his video. The drying time aside, I don't think a tin would be quicker for me and being a bit of a traditionalist, I prefer using the all leather seat for my own reasons. It really all comes down to what you believe in. If a tin breaks apart at the nail holes over the years or a leather seat sags over the years , the person riding that saddle and the person fixing those seats will be the final judges of our methods. Darc

Lulu, if you are in France, you might try and contact Alain Eon in Paris. He has a good reputation as a western saddlemaker and restorer of antique saddles. He recently released a book about restoring old saddles. I'm sorry but I don't have a contact number for him but I'm sure if you google his name you should be able to find it. If you are looking at dvds and videos, Jeremiah Watt's are very detailed and he does a good job of explaining what he is doing and why. Darc

Hi Chris, not sure if you've heard of D2 steel but it makes for a very nice head knife blade. It has a high chromium content which allows it to be sharpened to a very sharp edge and to maintain it's edge longer than most steels. I have some knives that came from the current Gomph-Hackbarth company that use this steel and am very happy with them. If you're interested, call Lonnie at (520)642-3891 I think they are selling for $95.00 now. Darc

Rob, thanks for that tutorial! I've heard different treemakers talk about making their rawhide before but I now have a new appreciation for what they go through! Darc

The TCAA's catalog is now online! If you need a shot of humility, have a look at what the big boys have been up to. http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org/events/tcaa/onlinecatalog/Catalog.aspx

Nice job Knut! Good on you for tackling a challenging project. Is there anything you're not quite happy with or would do different the next time? Anything you learned that would make the process easier? Here's a link to the only saddle I've ever seen with a mochilla that deep, with no lacing down the seat. http://www.chuckstormes.com/saddles/tca-2003.jpg Darc