D.A. Kabatoff

Nice work Rickeyfro, like the overlay pattern. Do you know a good supplier for the shrunken grain bull? thanks Darc

I'll be there as well... Joanne, I'm still hoping I can get out to your place before the show and try and fit a couple of trees to your horse so you'll have some basic fitting dimensions you can use when talking to some of the saddlemakers there... just a bit under the gun right now trying to get a saddle done for the show. Bob, are you planning on entering a saddle in the art show or displaying at the trade show? Elton, if you do make it up there we are planning on staying at the Best Western and I think Ryan might be staying there as well, that's where the saddles will be displayed... hope to see you there! Darc

I'd agree with ClayB about the legs having been replaced on your stitching horse. If the legs were replaced and the horse used solely for display, it would make sense to leave the foot lever off as it sticks out and is great for catching unsuspecting shins. Anyway, I've posted a photo of mine in case you aren't sure what parts are missing. If you need more detailed photos, let me know and I'll post them for you. If you aren't handy with wood, any carpenter should be able to add the necessary lever fairly easily. Darc

The first photo is of my Landis 3 which I have a love/hate relationship with. She has a mind of her own and protests once and a while (not unlike my wife). When everything is running smoothly the stitching is absolutely beautiful and makes putting up with the odd tantrum worth while. The second and third machines are not my own but are machines that aren't commonly seen where I'm from so I thought i'd post them for everyone. The second photo is of a Singer 97-10... it's my understanding that this machine could sew pretty much anything you wanted to put through it and at high speed to boot! Definitly a production machine. The third photo is another monster machine and is a Champion wide throat stitcher... a needle and awl machine that produces a beautiful stitch... not sure how fussy or reliable they are but interesting to see for sure! Darc

Anyone who doubts the memory of leather to close up around the thread needs to try and sew a cantle binding or three layers of 15oz leather (two to represent the seat and cantle back and one to represent the two layers of the cantle binding). If you try and make five or six holes with your awl and sew through them, by the time you get to the third or fourth hole you will need pliers to pull your needle through. This happens in a matter of seconds and is why proper handsewing requires making one hole at a time. It is pretty much guaranteed that you could drill a hundred holes in leather and not have to use pliers once! As Bruce mentioned, this will allow dirt to accumulate in the holes around the thread and will eventually erode your thread. On top of that, there is nothing prettier and more professional looking than finely handstitched leather. Darc

Gregg, My strap is about 14 oz leather and has about a 1 1/4" bevel. The edges of the leather are about 2oz... if you take them too thin the strap will tear in areas that have alot of tension. The bottom side of the strap (side that goes against the seat) was edged with a very fine edger so that it doesn't leave an outline of the strap on your seat. Darc

Jake, When I initially fit a seat, I make sure it is sunk well enough into the dish of the cantle that there is no movement when you push the leather in the cantle area... I do this with my bouncer. When I go to glue my seat to the tree, I have no need at all for weights. I usually put a coat of glue on the seat and one on the tree and let them set up for a few hours. Next, I take a spray bottle to the whole seat to get a little moisture in it, especially at the top of the seat that will be covered by the binding. I then put a heavier second coat of glue on both the seat and tree and while the glue is still wet I fit the seat onto the tree; the wet glue allows me to move the seat around to the exact position I want it to be when dry. I use my draw down strap to pull the seat down tight; this will naturally pull the leather away from the cantle and allows air to circulate between the leather and the tree in the cantle area so the glue can set up. After about an hour I remove the drawdown strap and simply press the seat into the cantle area and if the seat has no tooling I will use my bouncer again to make sure it is really pressed down. If there is carving of stamping in the cantle area I protect it by placing an old piece of belly leather over the cantle face and then rub on top of the belly leather. A couple of times I have had to remove seats after I glued them in this fashion and basically destroyed them trying to get them off because they were stuck down a little too well. I'm fitting a seat today so I took a couple of photos. In the first photo you should be able to see how the leather sits right into the dish of the cantle; in this photo there is no tension on the drawdown strap so the leather in the cantle area is sitting tight against the tree. The second photo shows how the seat moves away from the tree in the cantle area when tension is put on the drawdown strap. Not all straps will do this but because of the shape of my strap, it puts more tension up into the dish of the cantle. hope this helps, Darc

Knut, you could try Caledon Leather, north of the border in Alberta (your dollar may go a little further these days). I'm not sure if they have a 3 1/2" ring or not but give Ken a call and he may be able to help you out. http://www.caledonleather.ca/hardware.html Darc

Ron, if that's a modern Osborne knife, I'd get rid of it. For the type of work you are doing you will always be frustrated with it. I know because when I first started making saddles I rushed out and bought one and no matter what I did to it, it wouldn't keep an edge. Do yourself a favour and invest in a decent new custom knife. Do a search of this forum to find the thread on everyone's favorite knives. I myself have three from Ellis Barnes (the stamp maker) that are so sharp it'd make you cry knowing you suffered without one for three years. As an alternative, get on ebay and find an old osborne (the handle will be tapered and rounded at the end as opposed the the sawed off end on what you probably have. They aren't quite as good as some of the modern knives but infinitly better than the newer Osbornes. Darc

I cut my handhole after the whole seat is dry as well (all leather seat). I do the same as others by poking an awl up through the center of the groundwork. I use calipers to mark arcs for both the front and back of the handhole and use a round knife to cut the hole out. Mine are slightly wider than the space between the bars... ie. if the bar gap is 4"s wide my handhole is 4 3/8" wide; you can see the top edges of the bars in the first photo. I do this cause I find it easier to attach the skirts in the corners of the handhole. If need be I use a tiny little wooden spokeshave to clean up the back side of the fork and the front edge of the ground work. If you look at the top of the second photo you can see the leather is taken down almost completely to the tree. Some people put a plug on the back side of the fork to clean up the groundwork. I extend my gullet cover through the handhole and up the back side of the fork and then use my small spokeshave to clean it up to the final shape I want showing through my fork cover. The last photo is a paper pattern of the the piece of leather I use to cover the front of the groundwork. It ends up looking almost identical to what Andy does. The edge on the bottom side of the ground seat is pinked and held in place with ring shank escutcheon pins and the top is glued down and skived to blend with the ground seat. Andy, I was curious what kind of nails you use on the bottom...are those clinch tacks or some other kind of nail? Darc

I'd agree with Greg; Rick's an approachable guy and I'm sure he'd help you out. Keep in mind that the photo you are looking at has been enhanced and the color it shows may not be the actual color of the saddle. The original photo is on the National Cowboy Museum's website and in the TCAA catalog... it's so dark you almost can't see any detail in the saddle. I lightened it up on my computer and got the same resut as the photo you posted. Darc

Nice work Andy... not my preference either though. I don't think there's anything you could do on a Wade to improve the look of it. Just looks like it's on the wrong kind of saddle. Darc

Steve and Troy, thanks for the ideas guys... I have one more skirt to get through and hopefully I won't ever get myself in this thick material predicament again. I think I'm going to try to increase the amount of tension on the presser foot as I had it backed off quite a bit when I was trying to reduce foot marks on the leather. I don't think it's compressing the wool very much. If that doesn't work, trimming the wool down probably would do the trick. I tried raising the arm a bit but when it was all the way forward and to the right, it started to rub on the looper. I did manage to get it as close as possible to the looper and it's so close to actually catching the thread now I think all i need to do is get the wool mashed down a little. Troy, I think I discovered the same thing as you with the plugs and I usually use about 11oz leather for them on a typical flatplate rig. I don't usually wind up with such a bulk to sew through but the saddle I'm working on left me a real bunch of problems to work around. I'm doing a lightweight ladies saddle for a woman who is barely over 5' tall and rides a Welsh Cob pony. She originally thought she wanted a flate plate rig but I thought an inskirt rig would suit her requirements better (almost wishing I had kept my mouth shut but an inskirt rig really will make for a better suited saddle). I'm also using 11-13 oz leather and although I picked the best part of the hide for the top rigging layer, I was a bit worried about it tearing out through the one, light-weight layer at the rigging screws. I'm using #777 plates and decided to plug around the plates so that the leather wasn't pinched down around the edge of the plates... this gave me the idea to run the plug the better part of the front of the skirt so I could double up the leather where the screws go through. I used about 14-15 oz leather for the plug so it came close to the thickness of the plate and in the end I wound up with more thickness than I had wanted but I've decided to see it through and see how it turns out after it's all finished up. anyway thanks again guys, Darc ps. I still have to groove a stitch line above the rigging opening!

Hi Kevin, thanks for the idea... I just finished a skirt and that is exactly what I had to do except I got a pretty good work out hand cranking forty stitches and looping each one around the thread hook. I tried lowering my presser foot and the collar above it so the whole assembly with the thread hook wouldn't move so far right and gained about a 1/16" in length on the thread hook. I also took a hammer to my thread hook and knocked out the curve to gain an extra 1/8" in length. This solved the problem on the scrap I was practicing on but turns out my skirt must have been a hair thicker cause it still wasn't catching. Darc

jbird, another possibility for plugging may be in regards to plugging the skirts. This is done after you have blocked them and is meant to add some thickness and stiffness to the edges so that they don't prematurely curl. I don't have a picture of the plugs but the photo below shows the blocking of the skirts around the edges of a tree's bars. The plugs would be a second layer of skirting leather and would go from the edge of the skirts to the edge of the bars. Darc

Hi, I was wondering if anyone has experience with a Landis #3 and trying to sew thick material. I am trying to sew through and honest 9/16" of leather plus wool shearling on the bottom (about 1" before being compressed). The problem I am having is that the excess thickness of the material changes the angle of the thread between the loop thrower and the material... because the angle is flatter, the thread hook misses catching the thread and taking it back. It almost looks like the thread hook is about a 1/4" too short to catch the thread. The hook I am using is a long one (1 1/4"s) and almost catches on the presser foot when sewing thinner material so I don't think using a longer thread hook would help even if one was available. The first photo below shows how the tip of the thread hook just misses the thread. The second photo shows the thread hook length compared to a standard thread hook. Here is a link to a video clip of what is happening. Sorry it's shakey and blurry... I was trying to hand crank the machine while holding the camera. If you click on this link it'll take you to an index... scroll down and click where it says "sewing1.Avi" and click on it. It might take a minute to download as it's a big file. sewing clip Anyone have any ideas or is it possible I'm exceeding the capacity of the machine? thanks, Darc

After seeing some more of the complex jigs people are using, I thought I'd expand on my post from above and report some findings I've had over my last seven saddles. I have tried using the paper pattern method for pre-marking rigging screw holes on seven saddles now and am happy to say everyone of them has come out as square as can be made. On the first six saddles, I started by using the paper pattern to mark holes and then temporarily pinned my riggings into the marked holes so that I could take measurements of squareness through the use of threads coming from rear bar tips, top-center of the cantle, and top-center of the horn. I also used the method of tilting the tree on it's nose and measured plate height from a granite surface and distance from the bottom edge of the bars. On all six saddles I tried this on I have not had to make any adjustments at all. The last sadde I built I didn't bother with the temporary attachment of the riggings for double checking squareness. I simply marked the holes on the tree and riggings, drilled my pilot holes on the tree and attached the riggings... I'm happy to say that the rigging on that saddle also squared up as evenly as can be done. It took me approximately 5 minutes to make a simple paper pattern as pictured below, mark the holes on everything, drill my pilot holes, and attach the riggings. For anyone tired of fooling with jigs, you might want to give this a try. A short explanation of how to do it is as follows. To use this method it requires a well made tree with bars that are as near to indentical as can be had. It also requires that your left and right riggings be mirror images of each other. For reference points, I used the front junction of the bar where it meets the fork and the leading edge of the stirrup leather slot on the bottom of the bar. You can see from the fourth photo below these points... the lower, vertical blue line indicates where the stirrup leather slot is and the blue dots indicate where I marked the screw holes on the tree. To start, I made a simple paper pattern out of construction paper by cutting it oversize and holding it against the bottom side of the bar and traced the edge of the bar from the two reference points. After cutting the pattern, I double checked it against the offside to make sure both bars were the same shape. I then marked on the pattern where I wanted my screw holes to be and then lined the pattern up with the reference points on the tree. I used a scratch awl to mark the screw holes on the tree. Using the paper pattern, mark the holes on your rigging, doesn't matter if it's a flat plate, big D, or inskirt, it'll work just the same as long as you made both the near and offside riggings identical in size. Incidentally, I have found it easier to mark my screw holes on my rigging paper patterns as shown in the last photo of a skirt rigging, and then use the paper rigging pattern to mark the tree. At this point for anyone trying this for the first time who isn't confident in the method, I would suggest using small nails to temporarily tack your rigging to the tree in the marked holes and then double check the squareness through whatever means you are comfortable with. If everything checks out ok, you can drill pilot holes at the marked locations and screw your riggings down. Darc

thanks for the news... exciting for me also, knowing i can now complete the sets of tools I have. Darc

Art_of_the_West_exhibitor_form_2009.doc Western_Art_Show_2009.doc Thought i'd make mention that the Kamloops Cowboy Festival is coming up and post the entry form and information document that the show organizer is sending out. If anyone wants more information, they can contact me or David Ciriani. Darc Art_of_the_West_exhibitor_form_2009.doc Western_Art_Show_2009.doc

Margaux, you've asked quite a few interesting questions and perhaps the answers weren't presented in a way that makes sense to you. In turn, here's a couple questions for you... Which horse are you trying to fit... a two to three year old, a five to seven year old, a middle aged horse, an older horse? At what time of year are you trying to fit that horse... in the middle of winter when the horse isn't used much, in the spring time... in late summer after alot of excersise? These are the questions treemakers and saddlemakers have to answer everytime they make a tree and saddle. As for your custom shoes analogy, if you order custom shoes when your are 5, do they still fit when your are eight? Do they fit the same when your feet swell? If you go hiking with a pair of sneakers and carry a 30 lb pack, do they offer the support you need in different terrain with a load on your back? The best answer to these questions is to fit the average. As Rod and Denise stated in their two rules, as long as nothing is creating pressure points and there is adequate bar surface to support the weight of the rider, this is the best you can hope for without having a whole bunch of saddles. And in fact, this isn't a problem because when you are talking about a well made tree and saddle, fitting the average will allow that saddle to be used not only on a variety of horses, but a single horse in a variety of conditions provided you have ordered the appropriately sized tree and the saddlemaker hasn't screwed up the fit. Incidentally, this is one more good reason to quit riding two and three year olds! hope this helps some Darc

Hi JW, good looking saddle, smooth work, and nice hidden stitch on the cantle binding. A personal preference of mine is having a border on the cantle back... you took the time to do it on the fork, I think it gives the saddle a nicer look if you do it on the cantle back as well. Either way, nice job! Darc

Hi Julia, There are different tools for cutting different types of slits but I find it easiest to use a sharp round knife and cut a slit like JW described. Best to edge the backside with a very fine edger after it's installed and the flap is glued down. Darc

Since Bob Douglas is the talk of the town here, I'd like to add a little bit of information about his tools. They were some of the best modern tools being made and it is an unfortunate thing that most of them are no longer available. The last time I spoke to Bob he informed me that the majority of his edgers are no longer available and won't be anymore due to the high cost of manufacturing them. His tools were priced appropriately for their quality but it sounds like there is little or no profit in making them and like any business you can't expect someone to work for nothing. I suggested raising the price some and that I'd be more than willing to pay more for them because as a saddlemaker I know the value of good quality tools and also how difficult they are to come by. Bob didn't like the idea, I think he felt the tools were expensive enough as they were. If anyone else feels the same and happens to be talking to Bob, I'd say it would certainly be worth mentioning the demand for the tools... just imagine if he quit making those awl blades and we were all forced to deal with the alternatives. Perhaps if he sees a demand for them, even at a higher cost, he may reconsider making them. Darc

i'd ingnore what everyone else said and go straight to Bob Douglas. Darc

I agree with Windy and Mike... I think there are two different radius'. I also think they just winged it by making a paper patter starting the vertical and the horizontal with one radius and filling in the two with a different radius. I made a quick paper pattern and used two different radius'... one was a cork stopper for where the curves first start, the other was the bottom of my RM Williams conditioner can (is there anything RM Williams isn't good for?). You can see how the two have been blended together. The other line is how a single radius would have wound up had I only used the RM Williams can. Darc