bruce johnson

Thanks for the compliments. The color is full strength Feibings British Tan dye.

A couple weeks ago I posted the first holster and got some excellent feedback. End of that week Rhome invited me to his shop and helped me with developing patterns and molding. I was out of the shop for a week, but got the redo finished up last night. It fits much tighter than the first one, the slots are shorter but wider, and it is molded much more. I still would like the stitch line to be a little tighter to the trigger guard, but overall, I am happier with how this one came together. Some of the reflection disorts how it really looks. I used a 3/8 section of dowel for a sight channel, but in the pictures it appears almost pinched. Brutal criticism welcomed.

I've got a couple from Jeremiah. Ask me in a couple days about my new one coming from Bob Douglas. Bob had some wheels made up and put them intro some vintage carriages. If it is anything like Bob's other stuff, ought to be good.

{"I have one case model where it is CRITICAL that the leather match the edges of the endcaps perfectly flush. I can't sand the endcaps to match the leather or it damages the edges of the leather as well as makes the endcap edges uneven. The only solution is to skive or sand or somehow make the last inch of the leather taper to be perfectly flush. But how to do this in a controlled manner is driving me crazy."} If I am reading what you need to do, sounds like a bell kinfe skiver would get the jod done. A one inch taper is no big deal on those with the right presser foot set up.

For a lot of stuff there aren't going to be any published patterns. The principles are in the Stohlman case book series. For the rest of it, you just have to fit, fudge, and swear sometimes unfortunately. Most of the time you have to make up your own zipper. For the pockets and loops it depends on what size pen, how many business cards, and stuff like that.

Fontenot, I've got one of Ron's and of the two madeup ones being sold on any scale, his is way above the other. If you are set on making one, I'd study his for a few things. The way the drawdown works independently of the base is key. You don't change tensions by raising or lowering the stand to get the height you need. You can pivot it around and not have to pick up the whole stand to do it. The part the tree sits into holds the tree pretty well. It is not just a flat board covered with neoprene. His is substantial enough to stay in place. I think his site lists the top and bottom range of travel. Here's a link to his site - Ron's Drawdown Stand.

I am a small animal veterinarian. I did all horse practice originally, and found that equine practitioners never had time for their own horses. Have also worked in a slaughterhouse, shoeing and trimming for fun and profit, and worked for horse trainers.

Another factor to consider for him is weight. It is going to weigh more than his canvas set. The biggest thing for you to consider is pricing. These can take a lot of time to cut and put together if they have many formed pouches. They also tend to eat up more material than you think. The longest wearing ones I have done were made with apron splits. I made my last ones 3 years ago and will never do a set again.

Josh, It looks good, you did the inlay really well. The biggest thing I would change is to shorten up the stitches. Go to a #6 stitch wheel and using a little finer thread will make it look cleaner. Looks like a great job on the cuts inside. Other than that, same congrats as everyone else.

I do it like Bob with the blade over the edge. I use the DMT diamond stones with the folding plastic handles for shaping up the blade. I can keep my hand back behind the blade and pull them towards me.

Harvey, I take a strip from the scrap bin of whatever my finished weight will be. I use it as a flexible rule to get the dimensions. It works especially well for Bible covers and folding things. Allow for the stitching and edges, and then wrap it around. Some like them smaller and want the pad right at the stitchline. Others want the pad centered and inside the line 3/4" to 1". For the spine allowance, it depends on how much other papers they plan on sticking inside the front cover pocket. For my generic pattern I think I allowed for a stack of 20 sheets.

Joanne, I agree with Blake. I wouldn't trash it or take a big hit on it. I'd get it to someone and let them take a look and feel. These are not uncommon things to see on saddles of several price levels. If what I think I see is real, yeah they are fixable to a great degree. The skirts can be laced together further forward. They can be wet and reblocked. The skirt attachments can be tightened up or replaced with lugs depending on the saddle repair guy's comfort level with one or the other. If this is a true tree won't fit this horse deal, then it might help some but won't solve your problem. But again, going back to the history here. If you had a serious fit problem, I think things would have gone south on you before now, more severely. and in different places. I had an email today from someone asking if it was possible to block skirts with the wool is on after seeing this thread. I have seen it done as have Mike, Brent, David, and anyone else who has done saddle week. One of the instructors routinely does it. I don't do it except as a repair deal, but you can. JW and I were talking on the phone a few days ago about the old time saddles that weren't blocked. One of my old pals told me about that. A lot of those old mailorder saddles weren't blocked when you got them - flat skirts with the tree sitting up proud , the stirrup leathers weren't turned either. Most have probably heard grandpa talking about "taking that new saddle and soaking it in the horse trough, riding it until it was dry, then oil it". It was a for real deal - soak the leather and as you rode it, the bars sunk into the skirts and blocked, the skirts molded to the horse, and the leathers turned and set.

I am not a big time customer of HideHouse, but order from time to time. I don't think I have ever ordered more than a side or two until 2 days ago I ordered 3. I don't feel like small fish when I have dealt with HideHouse on those small quantities. Everything I have ordered has gone out that day lik e they say, and I have it the next. When I call they tell me that they have what I need in stock. Some of the guys I know have never complained of bad service, but I can attest that it can happen with anyone. One of the most popular referred to sellers here has lost my order, then a month later forgot to fill my order on the next run of product, and delayed it even longer. It happens. Not to apologize for any suppliers, but often this time of year they tend to be more out of stock. If they are paying inventory taxes at year end, most will try to have the stock pared down. I normally ask them about availability and quality left when I order. Some of them have sorted past some of the skins all year they have left, and don't replace until after the first. Still no excuse to substitute something without letting you know.

For the holes and slot there are some open ended clicker dies. For the ends, Osborne and others make end cutters in half round (sort of) and English points.

Traveler, I think I am getting closer in my mind. It doesn't answer one question, but answers a whole lot more. I was wondering if the skirts are held together or in place from the bottom under the cantle gullet. What this picture does tell me is - pocketed bars, loose strings, and gives me a frame of reference for just how thick that pad might be. With minimal blocking, those bars don't have a place to "set into" all the way around. The skirts are held up to the bars by those pockets sewn to the skirts over the bar ends. If those pockets stretch in the least, don't fit tight to start with, or the stitching stretches - room for sliding around. I have dropped the skirts on some and found the rawhide worn or completely abraded off and the wood polished from dust and grit working in under there from that setup. There can be that much movement. A lot of guys do a good job of putting on pocketed bars. I can about bet these are hit and miss. The off string is loose. If it even went through the bars to start with, it isn't holding the skirts up to the bars now. I would wager with this saddle it is probably throught the rear jockey only. On the $500 specials, it might be through the leather concho only and nailed on. How thick is the pad? With your fingers and that edge of the skirts lifted now for reference, I am thinking 1-1/4"? Now my thoughts as to why this problem is getting worse as the horse is apparently improving. It has nothing to do with the horse. It has to do with the saddle breaking in, things stretching, and getting looser as time goes on.

JW, Maybe one well driven nail and one bent and pounded down under the cantle maybe. The only ones more fun to take apart are some of the Tenn saddles with bent and driven ring shanks driven up at random places from the bottom under the skirts into the bars. Mort, I'd sure agree it is hard to tell a lot from a picture. Where in that article you linked to is he referring to deciding on a saddle tree size to get within tolerances to fit the horse? He talks about it early in the article but has never given any of the criteria he uses here or anyplace else that article was published. I am actually kind of surprised his article is even on that site, pretty much word for word what he wrote for the LCSJ. I thought they bought the first NA rights for any articles they published. He talks about buying shoes and backpack frames. At least with those, they come in different sizes and you try them on first before you take off on the hike. Unless he has built on the exact same size tree since the beginning, he has chosen a tree he figures fits the type of horse the rider is saddling. I would consider that to be "fitting" as much as many of us do. He seems to go to great lengths to explain every factor of not fitting but anything to do with the saddlemaker. Looks like he wouldn't consider the narrow front, saddle sitting up high, bridging, too flat back pad angles, pressure on the inside saddle tree experience you had as anything but your fault or your horse's, not the tree or his choice to put it in a saddle for your horse. That looks as close as he gets to choosing a tree, the owner is responsible. There are many legitimate points he made there that affect fit. The saddle is the part he mostly left out. Not as many of us are talking about "perfect" as he appears to want me to believe. I'd agree that perfect isn't going to happen. We just want to get closer the first time.

Alright now I am seeing some suspicious areas looking underneath. Not much blocking between the bars. That should increase pressure over the back. My other concern now is what is holding the skirts together underneath. I may not lace to the end, but I lace them together between the bars. I am not seeing anything holding them together and I am wanting to see some overlap under the cantle? Almost looks like the right skirt is laying over the left under the cantle. Another concern - are these pocketed bars and the bars are just kind of floating around over the top of the skirts? Or the other side of the equation, the skirts are floating around underneath the bars? I am pretty sure those back strings are not doing much to keep anything stable.

Karl, I bought several sets of Mini and Maxi punches so I can just grab a punch, chuck it into the press and drill a hole. That gives me about 10 spares of each size tube. Heat them with a torch, squeeze the tube with a pliers lightly to an oval shape. Heat it again and quench. Home made oval punches for practically free.

Bill, Thanks for your input also. To back up a little, this holster is for a guy who cowboys. He wanted something he can carry on himself not so much for personal protection (although running cattle in the national forests that is getting to be an issue) as to shoot a down cow and stuff like that. With that in mind, any other type of closure or holster that might be more appropriate? He saw mine and thought that was something he wanted to try. I want to get it right just so I know more than I did. We can sure try some other styles too. I have a few tubs of scraps begging for projects like this.

K-man, Thanks for the feedback, that's why the first one is here. I made the slots 1-5/8" for ease in threading a 1-1/2" belt, Next one I'll just do the 1-1/2". I knew that stitch line was too far away once I molded it, but figured I was going to have at least a few more reasons for a "do-over" and so went on and finished it for critique. I used some skirting leveled to 11 oz, about right? I can do some more definition lines on the next one. The retention strap holds it well now, but as it loosens around the trigger guard, I think it may be able to fall back some and then be able to slip out. Also the angle I cut the strap at is a little different than the back of the slide. I need to adjust the pattern on the next one. Any other feedback is appreciaterd. I am going to give it a few days and pop another one out.

I am posting this as my first holster, so be brutal with advice. I don't plan on doing many, but then 20 years ago I wasn't planning on doing saddles either. I mainly did it as a favor for a good customer and friend. This is the first, so if there is something we need to change, we can dang sure do it. I patterned it off one my friend Diego Conde made for me a few years back. Looks like it passes the upside down test for molding I just read about earlier here, but still draws easily. The biggest thing that bothers me is a stitch groove that overran in front of the trigger, and the slot might be a little close to the stitching on the trigger edge. Any help is appreciated.

I am still having some trouble asking myself why this problem is showing up when he is moving better and still not showing soreness, being ridden in the same gear. I think it is motion. Do these pads shift at all when you move him around? I hate to say if it was my deal I would do this or that, but am going to anyway. I think he may be moving differently and creating more motion across the back under the rear bar pads. I would get rid of the underpad. I would swap out that front cinch for a string cinch. While that may not be an issue, the lining of the cinch has a slight amount of movement. That would be magnified in the back end. I'd put that back cinch on too, but then I use one all the time.

Margaux, My take on this for what it is worth. Dennis and David have been to my place and seen my two horses. They don't card the same except for rock. Rod and Denise Nikkel have made two trees for my horses. I have ordered two more trees from them based on measurements from customer horses. I build saddles and I don't have the luxury of an individual saddle for each horse, and these customers don't either. What the cards do is let me tell Rod how much spread I need, whether the bars should be crowned or flatter, and what rock I need. I got specific for the wider horse, and it is within what I would consider tolerance for the other in my case. I can make up the difference with padding. They aren't saying don't fit your horse. They aren't going to make a tree out of tolerance just to not be perfect. Make it for the horse you want. If the other horse is close, it still ought to work. If the other horse looks or measurements are way different, then you know that the same saddle isn't going to work on them both. That can be just as important to know for some people. There are all extremes of fitting (lack of a better word). Some rely on the treemakers and buy off the rack like you suggested from Valley Vet. Some treemakers will have more or less rock, flatter or crowned bars, and different spreads and angles. There are treemakers who get the rep within certain circles of their trees really fitting, and others will sore everything. Neither is correct. The bars that fit one of my horses (R12 rock with about a D11 withers - DocsStingerxPoco Tivio, head like one of Elton's swamp donkeys) won't fit what they might see in Wyoming. There is a treemaker that makes better production trees that fits my horse very well. His might not work on the flatter backed horses another guy sees. But with the cards I can tell Rod or whoever that I have a horse with more rock. I don't have to say I need the rock that Sonny Felkins or Timberline has rather than the flatter Bowden bars for example, and hope he knows the competiton enough to guess what I mean. It simplifies the communication. If I didn't know what kind of bars that Rod or Dennis or whoever puts in as a "standard", I don't have to order one and say "Ooops, too much or not enough rock, or spread, or angle for this horse", and be out the cost of that tree. Once a guy gets comfortable with a tree maker and knows what they make, then it may not be as big a factor. Some of the old makers know who made what kind of bars and ordered from several different treemakers depending on what a customer might be riding. So and so's bars are flat and more rock, another guys are more crowned and less rock, etc. The big bias against a lot of this, and it has a some basis is that you can make a perfect fitting tree for the horse standing at the post. As soon as he walks off, that geometry is constantly changing. Some guys will say that fit doesn't matter because of that. My thought is that is if it bites some at the post, it probably ain't going to get better when he moves. On the other end, you can fit one great, have the gaps or no gaps depending on your thoughts of that. Ride him a month and it all changes. Rest him two months and it is different. Put him in a stall and off the clover, etc. You are going to be close all the way through, but not perfect even for that horse very often. That is where the tolerances come in, and also where the tolerances of one saddle working on several similar horses comes in too. Now for the other side of this whole fitting thing for me personally. I think we pretty well fit the two wives and 75 or so horses I've had over the last 25 years with 4 saddles and the right pads. My first wife rode the same saddle whether she was running barrels, roping, or showing a bridle horse. She never sored one up that I could tell. I couldn't even tell you whose trees are in three of those saddles and can only guess at what they'd measure. That is real life, and lot of long riding folks have made that work too. My rambling thoughts, and dang sure not much of an answer. .

Ed, I can usually scratch out a line with a stylus distinct enough to follow on dark leather. Plan "B" - I have some sort of a pencil looking thing I got in the end of the aisle in a fabric store. It has no markings or name, but leaves a light color chalky line that just brushes away.

Julia, That is a fact about Bob and Bob's bisonettes. Unfortunately at least when I last talked to him (late Sept/early October) he was out with maybe plans to make more. I have a #1 and #4 I bought before, and was planning on filling the set in at the Sheridan show. Hindsight is 20/20. He was out before the show. I have got some from Barry and some from Jeremiah in the meantime. Barry's #2 and Jeremiah's #1 are pretty close in size. However Barry's bladestock is wider at the tip, so you need to run it on the edge of the bench with thinner pieces to allow for the blade width on the close to 45 degree cut I do. Barry's holds an edge a little longer than Jeremiah's in my experience. The trade off there is that Jeremiah's sharpen up faster for me.