DavidL

I have a few ideas of the thought process on creating a great product rather than an average project. What are your thoughts on what makes a great high end product that sells for 1 thousand dollar bag vs an average 100 dollar bag.

Thats a good way to look at it, it would be nice if they took a picture of every hide so the experience would be the same as in store. When you are buying something like 20 hides of A grade then it would be easier to work around the imperfections. Briefcases or messenger bags can go upwards of 3k. Those looking for a good sturdy bag without an unattainable price tag will look for one at a more affordable price of 700 for something that they would consider a premium product rather than luxury with a lot of similar values a luxury brand has. From my mind set something that is 700 is within reason for an item that will 1. last more than 5 years and 2. be well made and have more value as it gets older like an old pair of shoes.

I haven't bought any expensive leather like bridle leather, this could be the standard seeing as full grain shows all marks. The hide looks to have a lot of cracks especially the third picture. If this was C grade I would be happy with it, B It seems on par, for A grade then I would try WC or from italy, france or germany. Best thing to do is to cut around the marks, cut less important pieces using the marks or use them for distressed pieces. Even leathers obtained by high end designers has a person dedicated to outline marks and blemishes regardless of the high grade of leather, things they look for also include overall colour. I vaguely remember hearing hermes using 40 percent of certain leathers and burning the wasted leathers (or it may have been unsold goods of either Louis vuitton, Gucci or Hermes that they burned) Vachetta is the only full grain I know that is nearly completely blemish free because of the environment they live in, something to do with high altitude, no mosquitos or barbwire fences. Anyone reading this that knows of tanneries that do things to ensure the cattle are fed properly, live in a controlled environment and has a good tanning process I would appreciate any leads.

Looks clean. When you are turning the edges (Is there an common term, I used turning the edges for different things) how did you get the edges to fold exactly flat like the way you have it? Do you have tape in there, do you have a jig?

Theres a book If I'm remembering correctly in yale or harvard thats made of human skin, the thought of it is even creepy. Probably a business man/women's purse. My father has a book case type thing with 100 cards at least.

Is it possible to use an electric sander to even out the edges without issue on edges? No mushrooming of edges or unevenness. In wood working its normal to cut 1/8th of an inch longer and sand completely flat. Is this the same thing with veg tan?

From what I read people who do heavy duty work, like cutting wood, cardboard, plastics use well below 600 grit. They say the blades last longer between sharpening. Soft materials like fish, fruit, hair shaving with a straight razor needs a polished blade upwards of 5k and compound. Chefs that require a sharp knife sharpen with progression from coarse, fine, extra fine, 5k, 8k. Then they keep sharpening with the 8k as a touch up until the blade gets damage, a benefit is that the blade last longer.

Before I knew any better I used green compound (10k+ japanese standard grit ) plus jewellers rouge on my VB awl blade to establish the edges. Now I would use 1k or 5k japanese water stone (600+ grit american standard) It took forever to shape the blade with the jewellers rouge and green compound and polished the blade at the same time. I can't exactly tell but a completely polish awl blade seems to have more friction when going through the piece of leather. I would agree stropping would be better than jewellers rouge and even too much stropping would hurt the blade. An important thing that there are discussions about on knife forums are that knives that are highly polished using a sharpening stone that is 8k upwards to 12k and stropping with compounds that it works better with slicing, paring, push cuts. The blade done with high grits like doesnt work have great edge retention on stiff materials like stiff veg. Knives that are done on coarse stone below 600 american standard grit has better edge retention on tougher materials. Still have to do tests to figure out the best combination, stiff veg probably rough stones 600 grit being the highest and strop. Thin stretchy chrome tan probably 5k or 8k stone and strop. Hollow grind would work the best to get the sharpest blade possible and least resistance from the shoulder of the blade (good for getting the cleanest line), worst aspect is the blade isn't robust, veg tan shouldn't be too much for hollow grind . Convex is a close second to hollow grind, more durable than hollow.

Perhaps rock mountain supplies or fine leatherworking might give you one for a review or if you give them a shout out on your youtube channel. If its not to much of a hassle, the difference between portmanteau and regular stitching would be helpful to show of the difference for corners.

Thats very clean looking. Do you do it the tradition way, glue everything together sanding edges square then use a pricking iron half way?

try playing around with the heat temp, along with moving it slower. You might need to also go farther in grit progression than you typically go just like sharpening a knife (240, 600, 800 on raw leather). 800 may be taking it too far, the paint needs a flat surface to adhere to at bare minimum. I also see people use sand paper after it is heated to take off the areas that don't bond well/stick up too much and add spots of paint and re apply heat then sand smooth with 1200 grit. Beeswax then paraffin and again 1200 grit is what I seen used too.

Skive double the distance of the folded piece (flesh side of the outer piece). 5mm overlap? then skive 10mm till its thin (.2mm thick), remembering to work the corners. From there you fold over the overlap onto the lining leaving the corners last. Pleat the edge or the easier way is to finish it the way bookbinders do by cutting and folding. There are a few ways to do a corner another way is to miter the edges. An alternative is to do bound edges.

If your up for the challenge heres one that would be great to breakdown. In the making of video you can make out that the corner is cut out and the corner piece is attached ontop. http://www.globetrotter1897.com/shop/original/original-navy-black/?product=78

Horweens has a large selection of leathers over 20+ of leathers beside the chromexcel, cavalier, essex. The good thing about horween chromexcel is that they are in marketing an "ingredient brand", something people will understand the quality of the materials just by the name. Ex. Togo, clemence, berenia, zeiss lenses, gore-tex charles hardtke In the USA sells a nice selection of pebbled bison that would look good for a rustic and rugged bag. They also sell smooth calf skin, box calf and crocodile leathers. Prices I was quoted for the calf skin was around 9 for regular and 11 for premium.

replace the stiff leather with foam or stretchy chrome tan.

You don't need to pay 300k for regular cars like singaporeans, so theres that.

apparently minimum wage for Aussies is $18, nearly double of US minimum wage, so it evens out. Low competition/ low market demand can raise prices too since the product is harder to get and isn't bought in huge bulk. It could be cheaper to import even after tax and duties and get major service done in australia. For canada the price for a select items are loads cheaper from the usa even after duties, so I buy from the US.

Besides the heat stamping (costs a couple hundred for a machine then a couple more hundred for a pattern that size) you could glue stiff 5 ounce veg tan in between the liner and the outer. Use contact cement and glue the pattern so that the inner and outer leather contacts the pattern piece. Use a bone folder, fix up the impression lines. An extra step is to either stain it like you would a sheridan carving or use a heated tool and try to burnish lightly. OR cut out the pattern in foam glue in-between the liner and outer and stitch around the pattern. Simplest way would be to cut out the pattern and stitch it on.

I have a wood creaser that is made of basswood, a softer wood. It has cracks on the edge (still usable) and I haven't used it nearly as much as my scratch compass. A metal creaser can give a stronger impression and be heated.

Its to prevent using too short a thread. In the beginning you find out using X3 the amount of thread for a 2 inch stitch line is too short. if you can calculate it you can take away the guesswork and risk having to restitch the entire piece or use a new thread. btw how did you come up with those numbers? what was the formula?

How did you come up with the answers I'm interested. the white column is for the whole length of the thread or half? By 7pi do you mean 7 TPI or 7 SPI. With thicker thread It would use more length than thinner thread, did you work out the ratio? This would come in handy when you need to use 3 threads of stitching on the entire piece and can figure out how much to use without excessive waste. The way of figuring out how many lengths of the stitch line can work too. Could be something you can work into a side chart. I hear 3-4 times the length of the stitch is enough for 7 SPI. Sometimes I fall short because I often forget about thickness of leather and of thread size.

Im in no rush to go overseas, only wanting to consider it and decide from there. Im curious if this type of apprenticeship falls under the guidelines of a gov. grant. Best case scenario would be I apprentice full time for 6 months to a year and I get a position at the shop for a beginner position. I was thinking to save up and in a few years I can visit Japan and overtime fit in USA and France. Each country has there own style of leather goods and slightly different styles, so theres that bit extra that I could learn authentically without guesswork. The trips after Japan will be more of a vacation I guess. I would think that going once I have learned the basics of leather working and into the advanced, learning the subtleties of leather working is where it would benefit most, the harder construction styles and close scrutiny of the refinement of skills.

Thats very true. Precision can be taught, dedication can't. I decided on learning the craft at my own pace with the help of fellow leatherworker and polish and fine tune knowledge and skills from a master craftsman. Started as a hobby now an "addiction". If we took all the members of this forum and dedicated time to teach a new leatherworker they would likely become a top craftsman in time. A master craftsman is almost like compressed knowledge of without the searching around only with the price and commitment. The thing about japanese culture that resonates with me is they hold onto traditions and values from their ancestors (many don't use machines at all and I seen on video japanese woodworkers that work on the floor). Majority of blade smiths and chisel makers use the knowledge from the past to make a blade the same way their grandfathers did entirely by hand, although the lower market goods use machines.They still are equally as good crafts man. Technique and quality are virtually identical to this day since they seeked quality by improving methods over centuries. It seems like they are difficult to track down, so I have to visit personally.

Nothing to do with marketing or self image. I'm not to sure what your on about. Just trying to find a mentor in Japan as they are very methodical and precise, dedicating their life to the trade. I would prefer they be traditionally trained from past generations or from a leather working school since they would have hundred of years of knowledge and experience.

There are some great craftsman that put in the hours on this site, i have to agree. Lately some of my questions are getting so specific I think only in house would help be answer my hundreds of questions. The live webinars may help. Id be interested if anyone knows or can point me in the right direction of a japanese master craftsman that apprentices students, almost like the way master knife maker pass down the knowledge to create the next generation. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't charge just to support the craft.