Big Sioux Saddlery

Honestly, I kind of like the uneven look on this. Makes it look old and used. Glad you are enjoying your new hobby!

I'm not sure what big urn horses are?

I'm not sure what the textured foot was intended for. It is a pretty big, bulky foot, compared to the others, and it's the only one I've ever seen like it. There is a very fine crosshatch pattern on the underside of the foot and about twice as wide as any of the common pricker feet. When I got it, I thought that it must be for a different machine, but the top part is made identical to the regular feet so it almost has to be for the "One". I have feet that have had the prickers ground off smooth, which work fine on flat, straight work, and some that are worn dull by poor handling which don't work well on anything unless what's left of the feet are ground off to make a smooth surface, and I have an excellent #7 (kind of a less than common size to find) with the toe broken off that I've actually used for particular jobs that I can't even remember now, but it worked splendidly.

The prickers set the stitch after it's made. It is like running over a line of hand stitching with an overstitch wheel to even out the stitches. The prickers also help feed the work as it is not a needle feed machine and on an incline or decline, or other tough sewing conditions, the stitch can shorten or lengthen without them. There are only two prickers on any pricker foot that I've ever seen for this machine. I have what I believe is a full set of feet, ranging from 5 to 12spi plus a textured double toed foot and two different feet for rounds with knives in them. But is certainly possible there was another type of foot made that would follow tight curves better.

Yes I guess that's what they're saying. Although the curves in my picture are pretty "relaxed" curves compared to some I've seen on old work. And honestly, any tighter than what is shown I'm my picture, gets tough to do on a "One". You can see at the very tip of my breeching layer where the foot marks wander outside the stich line. On a tight curve, it is almost unavoidable. But you also have to remember that this machine is a pretty early machine and may have been a vast improvement over anything that was previously available. I've heard that the Pearson #6 was by far a better machine than the Landis, even though they are very similar in looks and operation (although I've never run one, so this is hearsay and speculation). And thank you very much for the compliment. I'm going to say it took 35 years and tens of thousands of dollars to get to that point.

On better grades of carriage and coach harness, instead of being cut straight, straps were often given a "waved" pattern, especially where there was a transition in width, from narrow to wide, or wide to narrow, the most common place being the crupper turnback, (or back strap). The skirt of a team harness saddle was another popular place for waved work, as it is very visible. Breeching layers are another spot, and found even on the more common grades I looked for a picture, but came up empty. I have some old harness made this way that I can get a picture from if I can find it! Actually I found a picture of one I made last summer. The breeching end would be an example of what they are referring to as waved work. Incidentally, it is also raised.

Very nice job on a first and second saddle! This is exactly what I meant when I said I'm amazed at some of the first work shown on this forum that is produced using the educational material that is available today. And excellent advice from someone that has recently been through the early learning process.

Some of the best and most memorable times in my life were when my kids spent time in the shop with me and wanted to work on their own project. Although I got nothing done myself, it made for good memories that will last a lifetime. Make the most of this time with your daughter, they grow up way too fast! And tell her nice job on her project!

When leather becomes cracked, it is over, you can't "un-crack" it. I certainly wouldn't pay anything for it. It depends on what's all in that box, it's possible the cracked leather was that way when it was thrown in the box and there are good items as well. But even leather that has been dried out but is not cracked comes to a point of no return. There is a point where no matter how much oil or conditioner you apply, it is just too late. However, I've seen some pretty bad stuff come back, and I've also been fooled by leather I thought would be fine, and didn't make it. That leather was likely junk from the get-go. Only experience will tell you.

For years I used a $250 shop press with a bottle jack. It was slow but a heck of a lot faster than cutting intricate little pieces by hand. It was a great job for the kids. Slow enough that they couldn't get in too much trouble. I upgraded to a regular hydraulic clicker about ten years ago, but STILL have my shop press and use it occasionally when I need just one part cut and don't want to clear off my clicker bed or start it up for one part. The shop press gets used for a lot of other things also. I wouldn't get rid of it for anything. If you are ONLY going to click parts, the Weaver manual clicker is probably better suited for that than a shop press. If I had the room, I'd probably have one of those too for clicking those occasional small items!

I see you posted your question on another thread, and I answered there. I'll copy and paste the answer I gave there. Posted 19 hours ago · Report post I just replaced one for a customer, total was over $900, so it's not cheap. You need to carefully evaluate the rest of the saddle when putting a new tree in. If the other parts have a lot of wear and will soon need replacing or repair, it's easy to get a lot more in in than it's worth. I would like to see photos of your old saddle. Sounds a little like a ralide tree that at some point might have been reinforced with rawhide, but ralide wasn't making trees in the '30's. I will say one good thing about a ralide tree, it does not cost nearly as much to replace. They are about a quarter of the cost of a good rawhide covered wood tree, but I see lots of broken ones. I see a lot of older narrower saddles around that just don't fit horses very well today. They are usually pretty reasonably priced. Even if a person has to stick several hundred into it in other repairs, if the tree is sound, it may be a better option than replacing a broken tree. Just depends on what you're willing to spend and what you're willing to live with. Quote

Unless you buy your stirrup leathers pre-cut, you'll want a heavy side, either 13/15 from HO, or 12-14 if you buy from Wickett. I think that is their heaviest weight and sometimes I have a hard time finding a side from heavy enough for stirrup leathers, but when I do, I save it for that only and try not to cut anything else from the top 20 inches or so. Honestly, if you're putting in a flat plate, the stirrup leathers would be the only thing that you'd need that heavy. You'll line the flat plate so you can use lighter leather, although cut it out of the prime area. A regular dee ring rigging would be cut from heavier stuff, but most of the other parts just don't need to be that heavy if they're cut from the correct area of the hide. I normally get a couple sides of 8-10 in whatever color I'm ordering. I might not use much of it for the saddle itself, but a lot of times, the customer might want bags, or a headstall, and depending on what the saddle will be used for, I might cut the breastcollar from the 8-10. It's great for belts and lots of little incidental parts like hoof pick holders, breast collar dee chapes to install on the saddle, dee ring chapes to put under rosettes, buck rolls, spur straps, and many other miscellaneous items. If I was going to order just enough leather for one saddle, from Wickett I'd order an 8-10 and two 12-14's. HO I'd probably order an 11-13, and two 12-14's or one each of 12-14 and 13-15, depending on if you're going to cut your own stirrup leathers. That would be the one part that I'd job out if I had to. Color matching can be an issue with leather from different shipments, or sometimes even within the same batch, if you choose to job out some of the other stuff. It's really hard to order only as much leather as you'll need. Be sure to be very specific with your salesperson when ordering. It sucks to order three sides and for whatever reason not be able to get a seat out of any of them.

I just replaced one for a customer, total was over $900, so it's not cheap. You need to carefully evaluate the rest of the saddle when putting a new tree in. If the other parts have a lot of wear and will soon need replacing or repair, it's easy to get a lot more in in than it's worth. I would like to see photos of your old saddle. Sounds a little like a ralide tree that at some point might have been reinforced with rawhide, but ralide wasn't making trees in the '30's. I will say one good thing about a ralide tree, it does not cost nearly as much to replace. They are about a quarter of the cost of a good rawhide covered wood tree, but I see lots of broken ones. I see a lot of older narrower saddles around that just don't fit horses very well today. They are usually pretty reasonably priced. Even if a person has to stick several hundred into it in other repairs, if the tree is sound, it may be a better option than replacing a broken tree. Just depends on what you're willing to spend and what you're willing to live with.

They are a super good old machine, not a lot to go wrong, and everything is out in the open so you can easily find a problem if one exists. I've seen some that were nearly totally worn out and still sewing. I used one exclusively for at least 15 years, and turned out work that nobody believed could have been sewn on one of these. For awhile, needles got hard to find, but I think they are available again now. Something that is often neglected with these machines is the needle guide bushing. It MUST fit snug on the needle to do a good job. And keep everything well oiled. I cringe when I see one of these at an auction or somewhere and it's been dry for years and someone will be turning it over or sewing on it with no oil. Oil everything that moves. Shop Talk has manuals I think, or Landis Sales and Service as mentioned above, is likely to have them also. Very nice find! Enjoy!

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That is a testament to a great die and a smart user! Congratulations on needing a second clicker. It's nice to have enough work that you need to buy more machinery:-)

I always wondered if long dies that get warped that way (bow down in the center) get that way from people hitting them in the center first. On my long dies that are too long to do in one hit, I start from one end, then hit the other end, and then the center if two hits weren't enough. I think I only have one die that I need to do that with, and it was warped when I got it, even though it had seen very little use.

Mark842 how big is your clicker? That is a lot of cutting surface!

I agree with Oltoot, get a couple simple ones under your belt and then try more complicated things on later ones. There are enough snags to run into without looking for them. A saddle CAN be an overwhelming project, especially if you work a day job and don't get regular time to work on it. I think it took me two years to complete my first one. I was working and had two small children. It was very difficult to find several hours of uninterrupted time to work on it. Again, good luck, we look forward to seeing your progress.

If you are wanting a dark brown finished saddle, do yourself a big favor and get drum dyed skirting. I use just as much dyed skirting as I do natural some years. Antiquing the tooling is a whole lot easier than dying the whole saddle. For years I didn't use dyed skirting on something I knew I was going to tool for the reason that all the tooling cuts would show raw, undyed leather. Once I figured out that I could antique the leather to remedy this after applying a resist, I never dyed a piece of skirting again. Realize that if you use dyed skirting, you will still have to dye the edges, which is a job I hate. It adds a lot more time to a saddle having to dye every edge, as well as finish them. Not to be discouraging, but if you haven't done much tooling, maybe a saddle isn't the place to practice? Or do some more tooling before you get to that point on your saddle? If you plan to build more than one (even people who just plan to build one end up building another, and another, etc, etc) I would build the first one plain. I wanted EVERYTHING in the first saddle I built. And then I considered resale. . . if I ever wanted to sell it, what would other people want? In the end, the saddle turned out to be a hodgepodge of a lot of different things and not really a great saddle for any one thing. I'm going to disagree with the Colonel on the cantle binding. Personally, I HATE rawhide bindings. Rawhide can be a bitch to work; moisture content is VERY finicky, it's difficult to skive. Seems like if it's wet enough to work easily, it wants to shrink too much upon drying and then the stitches are loose. If you want to save aggravation on this first one, I'd avoid it. I've heard that a rawhide binding won't last as long and is not as durable as leather. I'm not totally convinced of that but it IS a pain in the rear to work. I think if you use rawhide that is thin enough to work easily, then durability and longevity is sacrificed. A short roll is not at all difficult to install. The leather that the roll cover is cut from needs to be chosen very carefully, and then you skive, skive, skive! Most people that have trouble with a Cheyenne roll do not skive enough off. I am not a good teacher and have trouble explaining things, but I would highly recommend getting Cary Schwarz's videos. There is not enough information in them to build a saddle if you've never built one, but they do contain some very valuable information and they are not expensive. Hearing him explain and watching him install a cantle binding helped me a lot. Cary is a very good teacher, although his voice puts me to sleep:-) I agree that if at all possible, enlist the help of someone with some experience, even if you have to compensate them. To do it all over again, I think I would attend a good saddle making school right off. Not that you learn everything you need to know in one, but it would have saved years of learning by trial and error to have some hands-on instruction. Didn't the Colonel mention something about having to reinvent the wheel? If funds are tight that is probably not an option and I understand that. I guess that's when you turn to the forum. There is so much more information available now than when I built my first saddle. In all honesty, I'm amazed by some of the first efforts I've seen here. There are some really nice looking first saddles that folks have built with the books and videos now available.

Please do not use the Tandy skirting for anything that matters! When I built my very first saddle, I had no other resources other than Tandy. I had no account at Weaver, didn't even know they existed, had no idea that I could buy direct from HO, and even if I had, the minimum order would have been impossible at that point. I don't think Wickett was even in the US at that time. I still have that first saddle, built with Tandy skirting. I've taken pretty good care of it, in that it gets oiled periodically, but I wish I had used good leather. For one thing, HO and Wickett are so much easier to work than cheap imported stuff. I don't know if it's the tannage, or If all the stretch and moldability has been taken out of the inferior brands, but it does not work up as nicely or easily as the good stuff tanned here in the US. Also, poorer, cheaper leather tends to grow mold and mildew much quicker than the better stuff. It does not respond to reconditioning as well either. I got a saddle in last winter that I built back in the early 2000's. The owner brought it in for a clean and oil and ordered another. This saddle had never been oiled since it left my shop when it was new and had dried cow manure on the flank cinch and billets, fenders and stirrup leathers and it had been there for awhile. I like getting my work back after it's been used for years. It allows me to evaluate my methods and materials. I was amazed at how well the leather responded to careful reconditioning. Cheap leather will not "come back" like that saddle did. If you wish, I suppose it wouldn't make any difference to use what you have in the ground seat, except it would drive me crazy knowing that I did! I would not use it for anything that shows or where durability (such as fenders) is important. Just my opinion:-). Leather that is a little lighter in weight might make sense for your first one as it will be easier to work. So many people think heavy=quality and that is just not true. Use good sense when cutting and use the right leather for the right parts and you'll get by a little lighter. Plus it'll be lighter to throw up on a horse;-)

Hello Hannah. What I recommend for your first build and what I like to ride are two different things. A slick fork is sure easier to fit up than a swell fork, even though I really don't like riding a slick fork. I grew up riding swell forks and still prefer them. Some people never do get the hang of putting in nice-looking welts, and if you can eliminate that step in your first one, it will save you some aggravation. I would avoid an in-skirt rig for your first one, even though it is my preferred rigging style for my own use. They are a little more complicated to build than either a flat plate or dee ring rig. In a way, with an in-skirt, you are combining two major steps in the process into one that is more complicated than either of the two steps by themselves, and it took me quite a few before I came up with patterns and a sequence that worked well for me, and it is NOT the way the Stohlmans do it! The Stohlman books are good and I wish I'd had them starting out, but it seems they go out of their way to make some things more difficult than they need to be. I experimented quite a bit with ground seats before I settled into the way I do it now, and I never say I'll never change it. I tried a couple all-leather ground seats. My thoughts are this: I think I can get a closer, narrower, less bulky ground seat using a strainer. All-leather adds weight, and I feel that if I skived it down as thin as I wanted to in order to get the seat I wanted, it would compromise the strength. However, many builders much more experienced and better than myself use that method successfully. I also experimented with a two-piece metal strainer, but have come back to a standard one- piece metal using risers so I don't have to cut stirrup slots. I have seen so many old saddles, even by reputable makers, where the rawhide was scored cutting the slots and with time it spilt apart, weakening the tree in that area. A narrow Cheyenne roll is easier than a wide one, and I like the look of them also. I was surprised at how easy it was when I built my first narrow roll. It will take you a few saddles to develop your own rhythm and style of building. Hopefully you'll hear from Keith Seidel or one or the others who has reached the level of a master of the craft. Best of luck and keep us posted.

Humidity in the summer is a huge problem where I live. Air conditioning helps. When the daytime humidity gets in the 80's and 90's, mold grows on leather in just a couple days. I always have a shop full of used saddles and harness, and that is way worse than new leather. GOOD new leather takes a long time to grow mold. Cheap new leather doesn't take very long. Used leather equipment that has grown mold in the past sitting in an outbuilding will contaminate everything else in the shop. During the humid days in summer, I run a dehumidifier 24/7 both in my house, which is AC and the shop, which isn't. It is a constant battle for a couple months. I also spray Lysol spray around the used equipment and places where there isn't much airflow. It helps. I heard once that tanneries use the active ingredient in Lysol to control mold issues. Think of the humidity they have to get rid of in a tannery!!

I only know one guy who has one. His sure enough gets used hard and on lots of different horses. I haven't talked to him about it for a few years, but he said it had to be kept cinched really tight or it'd roll around, and he didn't like roping anything very big with it. I always meant to try building one, more for the trail/pleasure riders than anything. The lighter weight and lack of rigging bulk would sure be an advantage for those folks.

Even though I know nothing about your model of machine, here are a couple thoughts. Have you started a new spool of thread recently? I have quite a few spools that my Cowboy 4500 absolutely will not sew with. It was not cheap or odd lot thread. I ordered it from a supplier that I bought from for years, and it always worked on my Landis One and still will (of course just about ANY thread will work on THAT machine). I'd try going up a needle size, and it might work, or it might not, just depended on what I was sewing and how thick. The only thread that seems to work consistently and without issues in my 4500 is the nylon thread from Weaver. I don't know where they get it from, and I don't care, because as long as they don't switch suppliers, I will continue to order it from them, sometimes just to fill a small order. Two spools of thread can look and feel identical, but in use, perform very differently. The other thing you might try if you haven't already, is to pull the thread out of your machine completely. Take the spool off the thread rack and run your fingers down the length of thread that is hanging from the spool. Thread will develop kinks as it comes off the spool. Again, some threads are worse than others, but I've had some that I could count on having to pull out and de-kink after sewing for a given amount of time. I had a Randall that was extremely picky about that. I tried running the thread up through a little eyebolt attached to the ceiling to try to eliminate or reduce the kinks, but in the end, I'd still have to pull the thread out of the machine and straighten it out. Good luck to you and I hope you resolve your issues.