Dipping my toe into sewing; Advice requested

[MtlBiker]

3 hours ago, Tequila said:

 I started with a Janome 3000HD and while it will technically sew leather it was a royal pain in the posterior, then I moved on to a Cobra 26, put the Janome away and haven’t taken it out since.

Funny you said that... I too started with a Janome 3000HD and quickly found I needed a different machine (machineS) to sew the kinds of things I wanted to make.  But unlike you, I recently started using the Janome again.  Before COVID, I had never sewn anything and couldn't even sew a button onto my shirt.  I started by making masks, moved to pet harnesses and leashes, and then to tote bags, wallets and purses, and even started hand-stitching leather.  My reason for using my HD3000 again was that I needed new dress shirts, and decided that I'd try to make them myself.  After all, now I had *some* sewing experience.

Anyway, I finished my first men's dress shirt using a McCall pattern and I'm thrilled with the result.  The 3000HD is really quite a good (mechanical) machine, as long as it's kept doing the tasks it was designed for.  I just got some really find Egyptian shirt cotton fabric for my next shirts.  I'm stoked! 

Oh another thing... you mentioned that you found the Janome difficult to thread.  Are you SURE you are thinking of the Janome?  In my experience threading it is a piece of cake, and it's much much easier to thread than any of my other machines and the needle threader works perfectly too.

Edited July 16, 2022 by MtlBiker

[chrisash]

I spent a few years in the Gulf and Emirates, the problem is the whole of the emirate's only have about 9 million people who live there, and they have built Dubai up as a rich playboy area so quite unlike many other countries, high wages mean little need for repair type shops and i guess very few leatherworkers.

Prices reflect the wages of the population and not the Indian workers who do much of the manpower

May be worth importing a machine but guess it depends on the import tax, I still think a flat bed would have more chance of being available in Dubai than a cylinder machine and no chance of the US industrial machines

You could ask around car repair garages who might know a upholstery person who could give you a lead

[Northmount]

3 hours ago, Sam83 said:

I saw a couple of them for $200 on Amazon this morning

Be careful with patchers from Amazon and other places, hand cranked, and $200 or less.  These don't usually work well out of the box.  You will spend more time trying to get it working correctly than making something with it.  You can search for Chinese patchers here and see some horror stories as well as those that work well. 

 

[Sam83]

17 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

I really do like my Janome, but the thickest thread it can use would be a v69, and the machine would be great for your linings and to learn with, but really not the machine for leatherwork. 

I guess there's no used market where you are? 

Thank you for reconfirming that the Janome is great for learning on and linings, but not for actual leatherwork. I'll probably go for a Singer or Brother domestic machine as they are much cheaper here and the linings are straightforward enough that I won't need too many options on the sewing machine.

In terms of used machines, I was hoping Ebay would bring up something, but I get spare parts in searches, not any of the actual machines. It's likely due to the weight of them that prevents sellers from wanting to ship internationally. The local version of Craigslist doesn't have anything as of now.

15 hours ago, chrisash said:

Prices reflect the wages of the population and not the Indian workers who do much of the manpower

That seems to be the case, yes. If only I was part of that top 1%!  

15 hours ago, Northmount said:

You can search for Chinese patchers here and see some horror stories as well as those that work well. 

Thank you very much for the warning! I'll be sure to do my research before getting one at any rate. 

___

Update for now is that I'm out of luck locally. I spent the morning visiting various dealers and shoe repair shops, hoping someone would either be willing to sell me an older machine or direct me to their suppliers. No such luck- they even refused to tell me the brand of machines they used. However, a couple of shops took my number and said they'd contact me when they retire one of their machines.
I also got cheeky and asked them if they'd let me try a straight stitch on some scrap leather (that I'd brought with me) so that I can get a feel for using the machines, but they refused. Can't say that I blame them, it was a bold request!

The plan now is much simpler. I'll grab a domestic machine and start practicing my linings and inner zip/slip pockets for the glued together sample bags I'm making, just to tweak designs and master my basic techniques.

I've also found that I can get a "Typical" brand flat-bed, industrial leather machine from Alibaba, that comes in at around $1300 including shipping (+ possibly some additional customs duties). There are a lot of them listed so I need to really take my time and make sure I pick a model with the correct specs. It'll be an expensive mistake otherwise.
I've never needed to purchase off of Alibaba and this is a lot of money, so I also want to make sure I find a legitimate supplier. The site has been around as long as I've been alive, I think, so it should be a safe and secure transaction. 
Worst case scenario is that the "Typical" machine only lasts a couple of years, but even then it's a starting point and readily accessible, so it'll be an investment into my education in the craft. It feels far more fruitful than continuing to chase the superior machine options that are just not going to be available to me here. 

Edit: I just ran a search on the forums and found that the Typical machines are actually considered good! So, I'm not even settling with this option. Brilliant!

As for the cylinder arm option, I'm putting that on hold. I don't think I'm at the skill level where I can use one correctly, nor do I think it's even necessary at this early stage of my learning. As many of you have mentioned, it is inevitable that I'll end up with additional machines for different purposes, so I can always add this later if I require it. 

Thank you all so very much for sharing your experiences and advice! It's just wonderful how everyone's ready to jump in and help out. It's more than I expected, especially as I'm so new to this all and I need more advice than your typical poster. Wishing you all a great weekend and thanks again!

Edited July 17, 2022 by Sam83

[MtlBiker]

1 hour ago, Sam83 said:

Thank you for reconfirming that the Janome is great for learning on and linings, but not for actual leatherwork. I'll probably go for a Singer or Brother domestic machine as they are much cheaper here and the linings are straightforward enough that I won't need too many options on the sewing machine.

Just want to point something out... I said that I started with my Janome HD3000, but that isn't 100% true.  A few years earlier I'd bought a Brother computerized machine on a whim, and while I had great ideas about what I'd make, I actually never used it.  It was only when Covid started and we had to start isolating that I started to sew.  And it only took me about 2 weeks to realize that the computerized, mostly plastic frame machine, with all kinds of bells and whistles, wasn't really a solid machine at all.  The HD3000 has a metal frame and is a MECHANICAL machine (not computerized) and is way stronger and more reliable than most of the computerized machines.  And it was amazing how much it could sew compared to the computerized Brother.  But the rage these days is getting a gazillion different stitches with a computerized machine and I'm suggesting that isn't the best route to go,  Especially with the kinds of things you plan on sewing.  I think you should give your choice of a domestic machine a little more consideration before making your choice.

Good luck!
 

[Tequila]

5 hours ago, Sam83 said:

 

As for the cylinder arm option, I'm putting that on hold. I don't think I'm at the skill level where I can use one correctly, nor do I think it's even necessary at this early stage of my learning. As many of you have mentioned, it is inevitable that I'll end up with additional machines for different purposes, so I can always add this later if I require it. 

Thank you all so very much for sharing your experiences and advice! It's just wonderful how everyone's ready to jump in and help out. It's more than I expected, especially as I'm so new to this all and I need more advice than your typical poster. Wishing you all a great weekend and thanks again!

Remember you can always turn a cylinder arm to a flatbed, most have a flatbed add on.  Here’s a place in England that sells Typical Machines and exports them JB Sewing  Looking at what they offer I’d be looking at either the TW3-P335 or if you can afford it the TW3-441 which looks to be a Juki 441 knock-off, and here’s one on Alibaba:  441

[dikman]

I might as well chime in. The "famous" Chinese shoe patcher is often known as a tinker's delight! They can be a useful machine but will likely require a bit of work to make it run smoothly. My suggestion, in your situation, is no.

Importing from China, naturally I have no idea about the ease/difficulty in importing large items where you are but I considered importing a 441 clone head into Australia. While there are any number of dealers on Ali-express/Ali-baba who were happy to sell me a unit (at some good prices) it was a nightmare trying to work out how to do it, at every turn there were additional costs required here (shipping, port forwarding, brokers fees, import taxes plus some I've forgotten). The cost worked out the same as buying locally, which I did.  Hopefully it won't be as bad for you (here we have taxes on taxes!!) but be thorough in your research. As for the Typical brand I came across it during my searching and it appeared to be a good brand.

Good luck, and I hope it works out for you.

[Sam83]

 

@MtlBiker Thank you for your thoughts on the Janome. I totally agree that a computerized sewing machine and a plastic body are not the way for me. I want a simple, solid machine that can do straight stitches; certainly not looking for anything overly complicated with unnecessary bells and whistles.The Janome HD3000 may well go on sale for Prime day (which happens next week in this part of the world). I'll keep my eyes on it. The metal frame is a definite requirement. 

@Tequila Thank you for those helpful links! In my initial posts, I had intended to go for a cylinder arm with a flat bed attachment as you suggested, then somewhere along the way I got lost down the rabbit hole of machine options and forgot that was my original plan, lol! Even if it's a bit fussy, I don't mind that at this early stage of my learning process. 
Now that I know that I'm limited to clones, the next step is to identify if it'll be a 1541S or 441 clone, and make sure I get a supplier who can provide the table, servo and get through customs here, all within my limited budget. I'm knee-deep in tabs, comparing various machines and will take my time before ordering to make sure I don't make any big mistakes.

Edit: Looking at the JB sewing site now, and I so wish they could ship internationally! The machine specs are listed more clearly here and with your direct link to the Alibaba alternative, you've cleared a lot of confusion for me. Can't thank you enough!

@dikman I appreciate the heads up on customs duties and taxes. It is one of my biggest concerns with importing (and it is the reason I'm going for China over India, since I was told charges for importing from India would be much higher). Since the pandemic has totally messed with my income and I'm doing only short contract work at the minute, I don't have room to cover any unexpected charges. I'll be careful and communicate with potential suppliers as well as the customs office here before actually buying anything to make sure my bases are covered. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Sam83

[dikman]

Sam, you mentioned possibly a 441 clone, these are heavy duty machines and likely to be too much for what you intend sewing. With RockyAussies modified needle plate and feed dog they will go down to #138 thread but anything lighter than that could be problematic (one of the issues will be finding small enough needles for lighter thread). Something with 1/2" max. under the feet might be a better fit?

[Sam83]

3 hours ago, dikman said:

Sam, you mentioned possibly a 441 clone, these are heavy duty machines and likely to be too much for what you intend sewing. With RockyAussies modified needle plate and feed dog they will go down to #138 thread but anything lighter than that could be problematic (one of the issues will be finding small enough needles for lighter thread). Something with 1/2" max. under the feet might be a better fit?

Oh, yes! Thank you so much. I'd read that before- either it was either mentioned earlier in the thread (which I'm going to have to go over again because I've got all the advice jumbled) or it was in the stickied thread about various leather sewing machines!

Apologies for being such a muppet and confusing all the details. Between local dealers not telling me straight up that they didn't have these machines then trying to sell me alternatives that are not for leather in the first place, and the added hassle of trying to figure out what and where to import from, I have completely lost the plot! 

I'll take a few days to clear my head and read all the threads and notes I've taken down again before deciding on the best model. Then I'll tackle issue of customs/importing. I also want to make sure I can get things like an edge guide and speed reducer on the machine I order, and since those seem to be sold separately, I want to make sure I get parts that I can assemble myself and that work with whatever machine I buy in the end.

None of this is all that complicated, I'm aware, but because I've never even seen one of these machines, let alone assembled one, it all feels much more messy than it is.

Anyway, I'm so thankful for the advice I'm receiving. I'll be sure to post an update once I have settled on my choice. Hopefully I'll be posting some of my creations not long after that.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Sam83