Skiving thin leather with the 801?

[toxo]

My wallet has been falling apart for quite a while now and I've lost count of the times I've said "I must make another".

Problem is I've never done a wallet. - I've got some nice 1mm Brown which I like and I know I can make a wallet out of that but when I dissected my old one most of the leather is around 0.8mm so I tried to take some off the 1mm but it's quite soft and the skiver keeps telling me it doesn't like it. I've got some bits down to 0.4mm (not intentionally) but absolutely no consistency.

Question? Am I flogging a dead horse or am I missing something? Since we're only dealing with small pieces, could I stiffen it up somehow just to get past the skiving stage?

[Tugadude]

I don't own a skiver but it seems to me that many machines probably will struggle with what you are attempting to do.  The 1.0mm is already pretty thin and as you said, it is stretchy.  And trying to stiffen it up is probably not the best approach.  

If you insist on thinning it, I'd consider having a company do it for you.  They might have a more flexible machine that can handle the task better than the 801.

Just some thoughts.  

[RockyAussie]

On 4/4/2023 at 10:46 AM, toxo said:

My wallet has been falling apart for quite a while now and I've lost count of the times I've said "I must make another".

Problem is I've never done a wallet. - I've got some nice 1mm Brown which I like and I know I can make a wallet out of that but when I dissected my old one most of the leather is around 0.8mm so I tried to take some off the 1mm but it's quite soft and the skiver keeps telling me it doesn't like it. I've got some bits down to 0.4mm (not intentionally) but absolutely no consistency.

Question? Am I flogging a dead horse or am I missing something? Since we're only dealing with small pieces, could I stiffen it up somehow just to get past the skiving stage?

First up you will find occasionally that some leathers have a sort of tendency to want to split at a certain thickness whatever the setting you try and dial in. Important points are to have the bell super sharp, the back feed stone spring set lightly and the feed stone set to almost touching the bell and set very parallel. Having a roller foot is important for this and you may have to experiment with some of the same leather scrap and move your bell a little closer or further away from the presser foot center line. Feed in slow as you go. Don't try and take less than .3mm off as it will not give the feed stone anything good to pull through. This video shows me doing something similar and may help -

There is another one on my channel where I am doing some circular skiving and that gets a bit tricky.

[toxo]

19 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

 

Thanks Brian. I've tried to do all that but the knob that advances the bell doesn't seem to be working properly. Looking down the side of the presser foot I can't get the bell any closer than about 1 1/2mm. Don't know if the bell is worn out or something wrong with the worm gear. I think that's making the knife edge steeper than it should be and so not as sharp. Is that making sense? I've done the sharpie bit and ground it back till it disappears. Is there a standard size of bell that I can measure against to eliminate that? I have a rough stone feed wheel on at the moment but have a new metal ridged wheel I can put on if I can rule out the size of the bell.

Unlike all you lucky sods with all the room in the world, my "shop" is the spare bedroom and although the skiver is on wheels it's still a job to pull it out so I can lift it up to check the worm gear but I will get it done. I'm gonna love having the kind of control that you guys have when they're working well.

 

[RockyAussie]

A new bell is around 45mm wide and anything less than around 30mm is getting near to worn out. The sharpening stone needs to not get to worn out either as it will make a shorter and steeper skive angle. Check if you have an adjustment bolt to shorten the length of the arm that the sharpening stone is attached to. it would look like in this pic if you have it  -

If yours has it you can undo it with a 12mm spanner and move it back to get a wider angle. I would not use the metal feed wheel unless doing heavy leathers, if you ever inadvertently let it touch the bell it will not be good. A medium grit feed stone should be best for most applications.

I know this video is long and boring but unlike a lot of other stuff on the tube its not full of shit so just double check some of the info on it.

 

[Garyak]

I have a techsew SK-4 skiver and I have no problem making paper thin leather even thinner. I’ve skived lace from Tandy’s I wanted thinner. Literally coiled it loosely on the floor and hit the pedal. Like a long spaghetti noodle it fed the whole spool in one run, perfectly, not bad spots or breaks. When I saw it could do that, It totally justified my reasoning for buying it. It’s all about having sharp bell knife and how you have it set, and depending on what your skiving, what foot you use makes a difference also. 

[toxo]

Thanks @Garyak I know it can do it but getting there is proving to be a problem.

Brian, I got the knife closer to the foot but didn't improve so I backed it off a little. I moved the stone back and increased the bevel on the knife edge by about1 1/2mm. I was careful when I did it and had a water soaked dauber on the edge the whole time. The roller wasn't as effective as the standard feet. Still not where I need it to be.

When I tried with 3/4mm veg tan it was proper apart from being wavey. I'll show a pic.

This was 2.5mm veg tan and I did it in one controlled pass. The waves might suggest a slight wobble on the knife? Doesn't always happen though.

Now I'm suspecting the bearings on the knife. Another thing that's not right is the skive versus speed. I have just the one motor for both knife and feed roller and have no idea if the ratio between the speed between the two is right. Could it be that one of em needs to go on a different pulley? I think I'm over thinking it now.

[chuck123wapati]

On 4/3/2023 at 6:46 PM, toxo said:

My wallet has been falling apart for quite a while now and I've lost count of the times I've said "I must make another".

Problem is I've never done a wallet. - I've got some nice 1mm Brown which I like and I know I can make a wallet out of that but when I dissected my old one most of the leather is around 0.8mm so I tried to take some off the 1mm but it's quite soft and the skiver keeps telling me it doesn't like it. I've got some bits down to 0.4mm (not intentionally) but absolutely no consistency.

Question? Am I flogging a dead horse or am I missing something? Since we're only dealing with small pieces, could I stiffen it up somehow just to get past the skiving stage?

yes you are fogging a dead horse, build the wallet now your leather will be thinner too after about a year of settin on it

[chuck123wapati]

On 4/3/2023 at 6:46 PM, toxo said:

My wallet has been falling apart for quite a while now and I've lost count of the times I've said "I must make another".

Problem is I've never done a wallet. - I've got some nice 1mm Brown which I like and I know I can make a wallet out of that but when I dissected my old one most of the leather is around 0.8mm so I tried to take some off the 1mm but it's quite soft and the skiver keeps telling me it doesn't like it. I've got some bits down to 0.4mm (not intentionally) but absolutely no consistency.

Question? Am I flogging a dead horse or am I missing something? Since we're only dealing with small pieces, could I stiffen it up somehow just to get past the skiving stage?

but if ya are worried about .2mm difference and cant skive it then moisten it and press it, burnish or hammer it, remember its leather and it will compress

[toxo]

48 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

but if ya are worried about .2mm difference and cant skive it then moisten it and press it, burnish or hammer it, remember its leather and it will compress

It's not about the wallet though is it Chuck! I could buy a wallet but I'm a leatherworker so couldn't entertain that idea. Never done one but i'll make sure it's as good as I can get it.

I bought the skiver because it opens up a whole range of stuff I couldn't do before, well not easily anyway. It cost me too much money to sit there not working properly. Conversely, when it is working properly it's gonna be great knowing for certain what's gonna happen when I put some leather through it

[Garyak]

5 hours ago, toxo said:

Thanks @Garyak I know it can do it but getting there is proving to be a problem.

Brian, I got the knife closer to the foot but didn't improve so I backed it off a little. I moved the stone back and increased the bevel on the knife edge by about1 1/2mm. I was careful when I did it and had a water soaked dauber on the edge the whole time. The roller wasn't as effective as the standard feet. Still not where I need it to be.

When I tried with 3/4mm veg tan it was proper apart from being wavey. I'll show a pic.

This was 2.5mm veg tan and I did it in one controlled pass. The waves might suggest a slight wobble on the knife? Doesn't always happen though.

Now I'm suspecting the bearings on the knife. Another thing that's not right is the skive versus speed. I have just the one motor for both knife and feed roller and have no idea if the ratio between the speed between the two is right. Could it be that one of em needs to go on a different pulley? I think I'm over thinking it now.

You need to slowly ease that stone into the knife,  let it sharpen about 10 seconds, slowly ease it off…. But first, I’d take each adjustment on the machine, one at a time, play with them, look closely at what each does, then you should know exactly what needs to happen to get that stone as close to the blade as possible without it hitting. You’ll see sparks come from the spot it hits. Make sure it’s not up against the stone before doing this. Ease it, with the adjustments up against the blade, level it across the stone curve and blade curve. Like a glove. 

[PeterinID]

After taking a course on skivers at the Pendelton Leather show. I switched from a stone wheel to a rubber one, I set the clearances pretty close and am able to skive many different tempers of light leather very thin.

[Bert03241]

9 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

yes you are fogging a dead horse, build the wallet now your leather will be thinner too after about a year of settin on it

[RockyAussie]

15 hours ago, toxo said:

The waves might suggest a slight wobble on the knife?

This waver is more than likely a very small chip out of the bell edge. Turn it around slowly by hand and you should be able to see it. Sharpen then dress inside the bell then with a medium temper leather SLOWLY let it feed through for a few inches. This can help to remove and little fine bits of feather edge off of the bell edge. A couple of pictures showing your foot to feed roller positioning may help. AS for the speed ... the faster the bell goes and the slower the feed goes within reason will give you the best results. All of my skivers have either a clutch that allows me to feed in slow or a separate motor that does the same. My first old Fortuna had no clutch and and was a nightmare to get running well so I gave it away to some poor fella. Work on separating the bell feed to get it running continuously at about 1200 to 1300 rpm.

[toxo]

24 minutes ago, RockyAussie said:

 My first old Fortuna had no clutch and and was a nightmare to get running well so I gave it away to some poor fella.

Looks like I ended up with it.

[RockyAussie]

I would not wish that for anyone but I am sure you will get yours happily running in not a long while. You can tell when the bearings are gone you can press the bell up and down and that is pretty rare.

[toxo]

12 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

I would not wish that for anyone but I am sure you will get yours happily running in not a long while. You can tell when the bearings are gone you can press the bell up and down and that is pretty rare.

Getting there now. Although it can go really fast I've found the secret is keeping it slow. No waves and much more controllable. Unfortunately whilst trying to slow things down via the motor I've managed to reverse the rotation and can't get it back. It's now running counter clockwise when viewed from the right hand side of the machine. There's a dot on the digits on the motor that wasn't there before. I have the manual for the machine but not the motor. Can someone help me out here. I've obviously not hit the right combination on the buttons thus far. Here's a pic.

[Northmount]

27 minutes ago, toxo said:

I have the manual for the machine but not the motor. Can someone help me out here. I've obviously not hit the right combination on the buttons thus far. Here's a pic.

Check through the leather sewing machine forum.  There are from what I recall, some instructions for digital servo motors.  Some are very similar between brands.

This is from Keystone a few years ago.  Works on my servo even though it is not related to Keystone. 

Hope it helps.  Your P and S buttons might be similar to the up and down buttons.

[toxo]

5 hours ago, Northmount said:

Check through the leather sewing machine forum.  There are from what I recall, some instructions for digital servo motors.  Some are very similar between brands.

This is from Keystone a few years ago.  Works on my servo even though it is not related to Keystone. 

Hope it helps.  Your P and S buttons might be similar to the up and down buttons.

Thanks for that. Found it on Y/T as well under the guise of the Reliable SewQuiet 6000SM Servo motor. It's going the right way now. Will stick some sponge under the treadle to limit the speed. Getting close now. Realising that tiny adjustments make a big difference.