Trouble Peening Copper Rivets

[Leslie Ryanne]

Hello,

I have recently started hand-hammering copper-rivets (sorry neighbors!). I've got a great 1# maul, a marble slab, and a hand held rivet setter with doming tool. But getting a nice, smooth & round finish on my rivet has been difficult.

Any suggestions or tricks here?

Many thanks!

Leslie

[Chief31794]

Leslie,

First welcome to the forum, hand peening copper rivets isn't easy. Some of the things I do to get a better looking finished rivet is:

1. Cut the rivet consistently leaving only about 1/8", more makes it harder to get good results. I use a set of end cutters that are very strong and sharp and have no problem cutting through the rivet.

2. I peen the rivet end with the ball peen of the hammer befor using the domer. I use a small ball peen for this and work the edges of the rivet around in a circle to get the rivet end consistenly spread around.

3. I then file the rivet end with a fine file to smooth the rivet end.

4. Use the domer to get a finished end.

Hope that helps, it still isn't an exact science.

Chief

Edited April 18, 2013 by Chief31794

[Dwight]

Leslie, . . . I suspect you are using a tool not really designed for copper rivets.

The rivet setter and anvil on the left in the picture is made for little metal capped rivets and is often given away inside big bags of Tandy rivets. It is really hard to use for copper rivets.

The tool on the right is the copper rivet setter I use and it works fantastically. Look in the end of it you will see a hole on the left and a domed impression on the right.

The hole sets the copper washer down on the rivet, . . . snip off the extra copper with a pair of side cutters, . . . peen it a little bit with a small ball peen hammer to get it started, . . . then lay you work on a solid metal plate. DO NOT USE your marble slab, . . . the force needed to dome the rivet correctly will crack your marble slab.

The domed impression is where you make the pretty little ball on top of the rivet.

On that steel plate, . . . you don't whale it, . . . just tap it real good, . . . 10 to 15 times, . . . you are literally forming the little ball on top of the rivet above the washer, . . . and it takes a bit of practice, . . . and you will eventually harm your maul. Get a ball peen hammer, . . . works better for this.

I have a piece of 1/4 inch steel that is about 12 inches square that I usually use under my copper stuff. Works great.

Hope this helps.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited April 18, 2013 by Dwight

[Andrew Chee]

You should check out Douglas tools. They have a three piece setter for rivets. It comes with a setter, a Peener, and a domer. I don't like the all in one setter from Tandy because the setter part marks the leather. I'm waiting on my order for a setter from Tim Judd that does the same thing as the Douglas tools so we'll see how we'll they work.

Andrew

[ChuckBurrows]

totally agree about the Douglas tool - after years of using the other cheaper all in ones I got a set and have never looked back - the difference in the ease of use and finished quality is a big one - not cheap but if you want to do pro level work it is well worth the extra cost. IIRC Sheridan Leatherworks is the exclusive dealer for Douglas Tools now..

[jcuk]

Dwight has rightly shown you the right tool for the job. When i set copper rivets i turn the rivet setter as i hit it seems to work for me.

you can pick up a good one from a good hardware store. I use a mini anvil to set on funny enough got it from Tandys works for me.

Sometimes after i have a dome i use a light flat head hammer just one tap, gives a nice finished look to.

Hope this helps

Kind regards jcuk

[mikesmith648]

I have the Douglas setters and the Judd setters.............both work way better than the Tandy one and less chance of marking the leather.....JMHO

[Leslie Ryanne]

Thank you for the help and pointers! If I can't get it right now, there is no hope for me

Chief- what kind of cutter are you using? I just purchased a 9" Klein side cutter and hope that is going to do the trick. I didn't think to file the rivet, so thanks for that.

Hi Dwight - I do have the same tool specifically for setting copper rivets. Perhaps the steel plate will be helpful. Are these easy to come by?

Thanks Andrew & Chuck - I will definitely look into Douglas tools.

[footrat]

I use nothing but copper rivets to assemble my products. Some of my rivets end up going through 3 layers of 13 oz. skirting leather. When you've got that much mushy stuff between the flat part of the rivet and the burr, if you start peening aggressively right off the bat, you're going to cause the rivet to bend in the middle. This in turn pushes all the layers of leather in directions you didn't want them going, misaligns other holes that were lined up, and makes it nearly impossible to get a nicely peened head.

Like others said, appropriate trim height is critical. You CAN cut too long and it still work, but you'll end up with a very tall dome on the peened rivet. If you cut too short, it can be impossible to peen the rivet without driving it back through the burr. You'll get a feel for it. If you're driving one side of the rivet back through the burr, you're likely bending the rivet somewhere, either because your strikes are off-kilter, or because you're going too hard, too fast.

Also like mentioned above, I use the ball side of a ball pien hammer, and start gently peening around the edges. Even if the burr starts riding up off its seated position, if you peen evenly and slowly, the peened rivet will drive the burr back down tightly against the leather. When I've got a nice little peened dome using the hammer, I make it pretty and smooth by using the doming tool on the Tandy copper rivet tool. Then, I add one more touch by flattening the top of the dome with the smooth face of a hammer. So, it's a round dome with a flattened top.

I use a granite slab for my impact surface. I've never had so much as a chip while using it. It's a scrap piece of countertop, and it's heavy duty. While my whole workbench is bomb-proof, I still make sure to use the slab over a corner, so the force from the hammer is transmitted to the rivet, not to the middle of the table, which still flexes ever so slightly when pounded. It's key that the flat side of the rivet be flush with the impact surface, not tilted. If your leather is heavy and stiff, like when you fold skirting leather, you might have to clamp it in place until you can get the first rivet peened. Cheap, but strong, alligator-style clamps from Home Depot are the best. The jaws are flat and smooth, have rubber covers, and they're strong. I also don't bother with mallets when doing rivets. The rivet setter is cheap enough that I consider it semi-disposable. I use a 16 oz. claw hammer on it. I only use the ball pien to peen the rivets, and the claw hammer for setting burrs and smoothing/flattening the dome.

[aconstruction]

Thy this tool for making you own copper rivets from copper wire. I'm a machinist by day and I moonlight making these rivet tools. You can find them at heromount.com or on etsy or ebay. Thanks.

[Black Dogg]

I second Chief's method of riveting; simple and does the job very well

The tool that aconstruction makes is well worth buying. You can make your own rivets in no time and save some money, too. It's solid and should last forever!

[Sanch]

the tool aconstruction posted looks like a chunk of steel with holes drilled at different depths and diameters? tool steel maybe? hmm? annealed coppe wirer (copper wire heated red hot then water quenched to soften) only what about the washers? you'd still need to source them...sounds like enough trouble to just stay with speedy rivets.....

[Chief31794]

Thank you for the help and pointers! If I can't get it right now, there is no hope for me

Chief- what kind of cutter are you using? I just purchased a 9" Klein side cutter and hope that is going to do the trick. I didn't think to file the rivet, so thanks for that.

Hi Dwight - I do have the same tool specifically for setting copper rivets. Perhaps the steel plate will be helpful. Are these easy to come by?

Thanks Andrew & Chuck - I will definitely look into Douglas tools.

Sorry,

I missed this some time back, the cutter I use is a 16" nipper, like the one you see in the picture.

Chief

[Colt W Knight]

Sorry,

I missed this some time back, the cutter I use is a 16" nipper, like the one you see in the picture.

Chief

I also use this tool to cut copper rivets. I use a set made by Channellock, and if I hold the nippers flush, it cuts the rivet the right amount.

For me, the biggest issue is a good solid striking surface, It needs to be firm without any wiggle room.

[kidbeey]

I recently domed some copper rivets and ended up with a radial split on one edge of the dome. What did I do wrong?

Also I have a Boker rivet setter. When using the hole that pushes the washer down to the leather it does not seat the washer tightly to the leather, and in fact, the washer springs back up. Could I be using a tool with a hole that is slightly too large?

[TwinOaks]

For me, the biggest issue is a good solid striking surface, It needs to be firm without any wiggle room.

THIS ^^^^^^^ . Even the best tools on the planet will yield unsatisfactory results if they don't have a solid surface to work against. Your pounding surface needs to have a lot of mass. I used to set rivets on my granite slab (sink cut out), but noticed an immediate difference when I swapped over to a bench vise/anvil mounted on the corner of a table. The sound went from " Claack! " to " thunk". With more mass UNDER the rivet, all the force of peening went INTO the rivet instead of trying to bounce the granite around.

If you can, pick up a 15lb anvil (or larger). Harbor freight sells a few sizes relatively cheaply. If you can't do that, try a scrap yard, or even a railroad yard, and see if you can get a scrap of rail. Then, set it in a small bucket of concrete, and you'll have a REALLY solid work surface.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Kidbeey, the washer popping off is caused by one of two problems; either you're using the wrong size washer (burr) for the rivet, or you're using the wrong size setter. When you set the burr on the post, before you pound it down, it should just set up on the tapered part and not slide all the way down the post of the rivet. If it slides down on it's own, the burr is too big. The hole in the setter should not be any larger than to just allow it to slip onto the rivet post. Any larger, and you'll get a sloppy job of riveting. On the splitting issue, I assume when you say "doming" you're referring to peening over the post. The splitting would be caused by not cutting off enough post before peening. I don't know what to tell you as far as how much to leave; an eighth of an inch would be too much. Cut too close and you won't have enough to peen over. The burr has to fit down tight before you cut off the excess. I have a little nipper that I use that leaves just enough when I put the jaws down on the burr. Practice and experience will teach you how much to leave. "Doming" usually refers to what we do to the head side of the rivet to give it an attractive appearance. There are varying opinions on whether this is a good thing to do, or not.

[oltoot]

My weapon of choice is a nail nipper appropriated from my horsehoeing tools

[Kate]

Thy this tool for making you own copper rivets from copper wire. I'm a machinist by day and I moonlight making these rivet tools. You can find them at heromount.com or on etsy or ebay. Thanks.

[paramedic192]

BRASS RIVET & BURRS SETTING VERY HARD

Good morning,

I have used copper rivet and burrs without difficulty in the past, but the copper didn't look right with the brass hardware on my current project so I picked up a pack of #12 brass.  Has anyone else used the brass and found it extremely difficult to set the burr?  I found myself having to pound quite hard and bending the rivet both on the bottom and top.  I even tried lubricating the rivet with a little neatstoot oil without any improvement.  Has anyone else had this difficulty and if so, any recommended solutions? For this project I just switched to a standard brass quick rivet because the rivets are purely decorative. 

 

Thanks,

 

Kyle

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

2 hours ago, paramedic192 said:

BRASS RIVET & BURRS SETTING VERY HARD

Good morning,

I have used copper rivet and burrs without difficulty in the past, but the copper didn't look right with the brass hardware on my current project so I picked up a pack of #12 brass.  Has anyone else used the brass and found it extremely difficult to set the burr?  I found myself having to pound quite hard and bending the rivet both on the bottom and top.  I even tried lubricating the rivet with a little neatstoot oil without any improvement.  Has anyone else had this difficulty and if so, any recommended solutions? For this project I just switched to a standard brass quick rivet because the rivets are purely decorative. 

 

Thanks,

 

Kyle

You are not alone, Kyle.  I hate brass rivets!  I can do about as good a job with copper as anyone, but brass. . . I have the same issues you do. To make matters worse, the ones I've used have a round head.  I just try to avoid them if at all possible,