Budget starter machines

[Wizcrafts]

Dave4;

I know this can be a confusing topic. Sewing machines have so many different designs and capabilities. I started sewing leather in 1984. It started with just a vest, which was a challenges in itself, due to topstitched fringes and thick seams from the 5 ounce leather I used. I tried three different sewing machines before finding the right one. Then I decided to try sewing belts, then other items that pushed the limits of the machines I had. This led to more heavier sewing machines, some of which didn't pan out, despite their size. In fact, I still go after sewing machines when one presents itself as different and is affordable.

The old iron Singer sewing machines of yesteryear were built to last a century and then some. I have a rack in from of my leather shop and it has 6 old machines for sale; two of which are aluminum bodied and the rest cast iron. I have rebuilt them and test sew each one with 4-5 ounce leather or suede. One in particular, a 1902 Singer 27, has sewn into 8 ounces of bridle leather with #69 bonded thread. It is a small piece from my scrap drawer and I used it to demo the machine. The customer was amazed, but didn't buy the machine. Go figure.

When it comes to golden oldies, here's what I've found.

• The models with built in motors are to be avoided. They have only the torque left in that pod motor and cannot be ramped up. Overloading them with tough leather makes the motor groan and it starts smelling bad.
• Models with external motors can be refitted with a 1 or 1.5 amp motor that can punch through leather without bogging down or smoking.
• The old bullet shuttle 27 types stay in time under load and can sew a little thicker.
• Almost all these machines max out at 5 stitches to the inch, with most giving only 6 or 7 (a Model 66).
• None can handle over #69 bonded thread, with some refusing to handle even that.
• None can sew over 1/4 inch of material effectively. Most are lucky to sew 3/16 inch of cloth.
• They don't do a good job of transporting leather, except for suede or veg-tan with a rough flesh side. All feed is on the bottom.
• Domestic sewing machines have fairly weak tension and pressure springs. The pressure spring over the presser foot sometimes has to be cranked down almost all the way to hold down veg-tan leather belts as the needle rises. If the leather lifts with the needle, there are skipped stitches.
• Increasing the pressure on the foot makes it harder to feed some leathers. People often use a Teflon foot in these situation.
• Teflon feet are deep top to bottom and take away from the usable sewing clearance. If you forget what the foot is made of and drop it down onto the feed dogs, the teeth leave a lasting impression.
• The so called walking foot, or even feed attachments are useless on most leathers, other than garment leather. they basically only follow the top layer, without any feed action of their own. They also take away from the clearance under the foot.

These are some of the things I have learned about the old domestic sewing machines. They are nice to look at and collectors love them. But, when it comes to sewing leather for a living, they cannot be trusted and cannot be tweaked to exceed their physical limitations.

Bottom line: if you are going to sew leather things and get paid, buy a proper leather sewing machine. There are lots of dealers representing our forum, either with banner ads, or simply with their freely givin technical advice. Call them and pose your questions. Most will tell you which machine types will handle your anticipated projects without being at their limits all the time. Some may be too heavy duty for light work and thin thread. There is no all in one sews it all machine that handles from a couple ounces to 3/4 inch, with thread sizes 69 through 415, that doesn't require a lot of readjustment to go between those extremes. Heavy 441 clones are not so good under 6 ounces and may actually eat thin soft leather. Straight stitch industrial machines max out at 1/4 inch or less. Only the heavy duty machines made for upholstery, tents, harness, and webbing are capable of sewing holsters and sheathes, using big needles and thick thread.

I hope this helps!

[Tulsaman]

From what I've read the Vertical hook machine in the 226 or 111w etc. are a stronger machine then the newer 206, etc  horizontal hooks... I'm not talking about any other classes just these... I wonder what that is about? I know the horizontals' are less money to buy...new any way.. I've always bought vertical hooks to be sure of no issues. 

[graywolf]

On 6/5/2016 at 8:51 PM, MADMAX22 said:

Have you talked to anyone in the states about shipping you one? Even if shipping saved you a quarter of the price the support you could get would be much better even if you have to wake up early to get ahold of someone. 

I sometimes wonder what people are thinking support is? Talking to someone on the telephone? Sending the the machine back to have it repaired? If the first, there are folks who did not even sell you the machine that are happy to provide it. If the second, international shipping would be ridiculous, and even if you are here in the US it may not be worthwhile $225 each way x 3 adds $650 to the price of the machine.

Now, it may be worthwhile using a particular dealer who will set the machine up for your particular use. But, the fact he is a nice guy 800 miles away is not going to get you much in the way of physical after sales support.

Ideally, you ought o buy from a great dealer within a hour of you, but a lot of us do not have that choice. So the next best, seems to me, is to buy from the cheapest delivered, reputable source.

[MADMAX22]

True Greywolf, I was just saying if the machines are rediculously expensive that it is worth looking into the initial cost of ownership by having one shipped out. I have no idea of the shipping charges so it would be something the OP would have to look into. 

I agree its nice to have physical support when available but even here in the states that is difficult. The closest physical person that sells a 441 clone in my case is well over 1000 miles away. I depend  entirely on phone or forum support to resolve my issues. I would have spent more money to buy locally if one was available at the time but no such luck and to have one of the "seattle" shops order one of these machines basically would have been difficult/lack knowledgeable support/ and cost an arm and a leg.  

[dikman]

Dave, it's a great idea but I wonder if you realise just how big a job compiling this list this would be? Singer alone has a huge number of models, not all of which have information available (you mentioned an SV model, they made an awful lot of SV models but no-one appears to know exactly what the SV models are). For your idea to work it really needs to be a searchable database, and that is starting to get complex.

[Tejas]

I agree that the task is rather large. However, were you to decide to make such a list or database, as a starting point for the format attached are pdf and spreadsheet versions made for comparing some cylinder arm machines.

Cylinder Head.xlsx

Cylinder Head.pdf

BTW, the information came form different sources and might not all be accurate.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Tejas

[Northmount]

4 hours ago, Tejas said:

I agree that the task is rather large. However, were you to decide to make such a list or database, as a starting point for the format attached are pdf and spreadsheet versions made for comparing some cylinder arm machines.

Cylinder Head.xlsx

Cylinder Head.pdf

BTW, the information came form different sources and might not all be accurate.

LOL  You might want to rename the files to Cylinder Arm!

Tom

 

[TeriYool]

Dave- what a great start!  Your spreadsheet is empty as far as models/brandsbut has a wealth of information as far as what to ask and what to look for. Thank you for compiling it!

What machine did you settle on?

[Yetibelle]

I understand it the frustration - making a list is a good idea.  With Singer Machines the model number starts with the machine class, then the factory, then the subclass.  So a Singer 111w155 the class is 111 the "w" (typically refers to the Singer factory it was made in) and the subclass is the 155.  The   When you see "SV" in a Singer model number it refers to "special variant".  So it is a special machine within the subclass.  To get the complete history on the machine you also need the Singer Serial number.  That will also denote the factory and year the machine was made in.  I don't think one factory or model was better than the other. What makes an antique Singer Machine good or bad is how well it was maintained over the last 100 years. Below are some answers to your questions.  The old machines are great fun.    

What's a 15, 30, 201, 111, 211?

Singer Class 15-91 is home machine still a tank but not a walking foot.  very common machine about $100-300

Singer 201-X bigger version of the 15-91 also tough but still a home machine also about $100-300

Singer class 111-XXX - great medium weight machine single needle walking foot $300-800

What's a 78-3? - Singer machine medium weight leather and canvas about $300-600 in working order

What's a 144WSV33?  The 144-XXX is a heavy canvas and leather machine with long throat for easy turning projects

145W103? similar to the 144 but with 2 needle system

Which pfaff's?  What are they?  Pfaff, Duerkopp Adler are both German sewing machine companies

What else is out there in old iron that can be used for light-leather?  

Singer 29k - shoe patch (but can do other stuff) great medium weight treadle machines. $400-800

Singer Class 7-XX machines - larger heavy leather machine $1000-2500

Singer 97-10 HUGE machine sews $3000-8000 don't see them that often

 

[dikman]

As I mentioned earlier, the "SV" models appear to be a very big unknown. I have thus far been unable to find any paperwork for these models or to determine why they even made them, such is the complete lack of information concerning them. In my case I have a 111WSV77. As far as I can determine by looking at the parts list and manuals for various 111-class machines it appears to match up with a 111W153 (there are no differences that I can find) BUT none of the part numbers on the machine match the part numbers for the 151, 2, 3 or 5.

I suppose I should add that it only cost me $150 Australian . The table was useless and it was powered by what looked like an old washing machine motor (!) but I consider it well worth the money just for the head unit.

 

Edited August 27, 2016 by dikman