My Stuff is TOO STIFF

[Dwight]

Almost all my leather work has always been holsters, belts, knife sheaths, and hand bags.

And most of the time, . . . Resolene has been my "go to" finish, . . . and has worked well for those applications, . . . Zero complaints here.

BUT, . . . increasingly more and more (and I'm not complaining) I'm being asked to create something new and different, . . . and it needs to be more flexible, bendable, softer, etc.

What dying technique / finish technique will do this:  1) fully protect it from dye rub off, . . . 2) allow the leather to flex as though it were untouched veggie tan, . . . 3) not be a 3 or 4 or 5 step process, . . . need to keep it simple for a simple minded old codger.

Thanks, may God bless,

Dwight

[TomG]

I use Leather Balm with Atom Wax and after well dried, top it with a very light coat of 50/50 Resolene or acrylic floor wax.  Right after the Leather Balm, I flex the leather a bit and it limbers right up.  Of course, 80% of my stuff is straps of some sort, so that part is easy <g>.

Works well for me.

Someone else I know uses the floor wax first and the Leather Balm on top.  Works for them as well.

 

[TinkerTailor]

Its a similar idea, but I have had good results with 50/50 then carnauba creme. First I do a light coat of 50/50 to help lock in the finish and harden the surface of carving. I bet  its actually 60% or more alcohol in reality. I put more alcohol in to make sure this first coat sinks in and distributes without leaving any on the surface so I can still go in with waxes and things. Granted they take longer to absorb, but they still will. Shiny reso coat on top, no way.  Then I'll  just slop carnauba on on with my fingers, rubbing it in with my hands, let it soak and buff it. Do this twice and buff really good. For more waterproof, snoseal on top. Carnauba rubbed and buffed leather feels soooooo nice....

I have also had success treating leather from the backside with carnauba to soften it without affecting the grain colour or finish. If you get the leather softer from the inside, you may not even need to change the finish technique on the outside. I do this on the backside of bendy bits like the fold of a wallet, selectively flexifying....

What if you just oiled the piss out of the leather before you assemble with your current technique?? Or oil dip a couple times after dye but before reso? Or just dye the oil for that matter.

It may also be that the solution is to switch to a softer temper leather and keep your finishing style. I have no idea where you would get it (i'm in Canada and he is local to me) but the nicest veg leather i have used came from Italy. When I looked at it, there was some that was amazingly limp but still thick and somehow not squishy. I have a belt made from it that is 10 oz easily and it is soft enough I can wind it around a broom stick yet hasn't stretched a bit in a year, and I put heavy stuff on my belt. I know that the selection of consistent quality leather is super awesome these days but it may be worth a look.....

[cowboycolonel]

Dwight,

 

I almost NEVER apply one of those finished to my work.  Instead I use Skidmore's Leather Cream.  It's a beeswax product, produces a lustrous finish, and can easily be applied by the consumer as they want.  I provide a can with every saddle I sell.  Besides, it's better then hand cream and where you are, is will reduce chapped skin during winter months.  Put it on with your bare hands, and if you leave too much in tooling impressions, etc., then just hit it with a blow dryer and then an air compressor and it will magically disappear.

[Colt W Knight]

I thin MOP about 50/50 and airbrush it onto my soft purses. I like to do about 3-4 thin coats. You can tell when it starts to build up and stops soaking in, thats when I stop. Adds a bit of shine and nice protection that wont crack or gum up on the purses.

[Boriqua]

On certain items where I dont want to bury the item in Resolene I have used the Tandy Waterstain. It dries quickly and even with no sealer top coat it absolutely doesnt rub off. I have rubbed it to death with a white cloth and nothing ever comes up. I then do a thin top coat of 50/50 resolene but I have also done the neatsfoot/beeswax finish but what rubbed was the wax. No color but the rubbing of the wax on the persons clothing caused a dark spot

[TinkerTailor]

5 minutes ago, Boriqua said:

On certain items where I dont want to bury the item in Resolene I have used the Tandy Waterstain. It dries quickly and even with no sealer top coat it absolutely doesnt rub off. I have rubbed it to death with a white cloth and nothing ever comes up. I then do a thin top coat of 50/50 resolene but I have also done the neatsfoot/beeswax finish but what rubbed was the wax. No color but the rubbing of the wax on the persons clothing caused a dark spot

what happens to the stain if the leather gets wet? Does it run?

[Boriqua]

1 hour ago, TinkerTailor said:

what happens to the stain if the leather gets wet? Does it run?

I cant speak to all the colors having only used about 4 different ones but just this past week I used the Pro Waterstain black to dye the inside of a holster and 3 mag pouches. They all get dunked in a pan of clean water and stuck in a bag and there was absolutely no run off. I wish my Solvent based red and oxblood were that color fast when dunked. When I dunk holsters that I used fiebings red or oxblood on the water turns red but like I said that Waterstain black .. completely stable.

I have some turquoise and another color out in the shed I havent tried yet. I will dye up some scrap and check its fastness. I usually treat items with a light coat of resolene anyway so they do get extra protection but I will give those colors a wet test and report back.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Boriqua

[TomG]

So you guys are saying that you can dip dye using the Pro Waterstains?  I thought you had to rub it into slightly damp leather.

How long do you dip it?  My oil dyes only take seconds to dip.

 

[Boriqua]

I have only used it with a dauber or rag. Sorry if i confused things with mentioning dipping but i was refering to dipping in water in order to mold. If the dye was going to run i would have seen it then as i dyed the inside before i glued stitched and wetmold. I have never dip dyed with any dyes.

[robbied]

Dye, hide rejuvinator (a couple of massages in) then resolene. The rejuvinator seems to soften it nicely without the greasiness of neats foot oil. The resolene goes well over the top of that.

[Dwight]

50 minutes ago, robbied said:

Dye, hide rejuvinator (a couple of massages in) then resolene. The rejuvinator seems to soften it nicely without the greasiness of neats foot oil. The resolene goes well over the top of that.

And what is this rejuvenator called???

May God bless,

Dwight

[Red Bear Haraldsson]

Doctor Jackson's Hide rejuvenator

https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/dr-jackson-s-hide-rejuvenator

 

[Dwight]

1 hour ago, Red Bear Haraldsson said:

Doctor Jackson's Hide rejuvenator

https://www.tandyleather.com/en/product/dr-jackson-s-hide-rejuvenator

 

Thanks, Red Bear, . . . I thought I knew every product on the shelves at my local Tandy, . . . I most surely missed this one.

I won't next time, . . . 

May God bless,

Dwight

[MADMAX22]

Pure neatsfoot oil isnt greasy unless you over do it. 

Wiping on a thin layer then letting it sit over night is the key. 

Dwight I think part of it is matching the leather thickness to what you will be making, possibly choosing a different type of leather also depending on the style you want to do. Usually though changing from say 8oz that you use for most of your stuff (just guessing) to 5oz will make a big difference. Plus removing the wet forming part of the process can also get rid of alot of the hardness. 

Depending on the project I usually give it a light coat of neatsfoot and let it sit overnight, then decide what type of finish I want to use. If leaving it natural I rub on a wax/oil mix (home made sno-seal) I have and let that sit in a warm environment for a day or two then buff it off and its good to go. If I use a finish it is usually tan kote or saddle-lac. If saddle lac I let it dry then buff and its good to go, if tan-kote I let it dry and then use my sno-seal equivelant and let it set up for a day then buff. 

So anyway I go its basically 3 steps but takes a little while, the process can be speeded up if you have one of those hot boxes to let it sit in for a while. 

[bgentle]

On 10/25/2016 at 8:23 AM, TomG said:

I use Leather Balm with Atom Wax and after well dried, top it with a very light coat of 50/50 Resolene or acrylic floor wax.  Right after the Leather Balm, I flex the leather a bit and it limbers right up.  Of course, 80% of my stuff is straps of some sort, so that part is easy <g>.

Works well for me.

Someone else I know uses the floor wax first and the Leather Balm on top.  Works for them as well.

 

50 % resolene and 50 % what?

 

[Mattsbagger]

I'm assuming water. for the 50/50. That seems to be the cut % from what I've read.

[Dwight]

13 minutes ago, Mattsbagger said:

I'm assuming water. for the 50/50. That seems to be the cut % from what I've read.

That's it...............

May God bless,

Dwight

[TomG]

54 minutes ago, bgentle said:

50 % resolene and 50 % what?

 

Water. It helps prevent cracking when the leather is flexed

Edited October 26, 2016 by TomG

[keplerts]

Boriqua,

I have some  turquoise waterstain that I have tried but it looks like crap.  Let me know (or show a picture) of have a piece of leather turns out when you use the turquoise waterstain.  All of the other waterstains I have used were great. I really like them.

Tom

[silverwingit]

Dwight, after happily consuming your nearly 3,000 some helpful posts I am privileged to have the opportunity to help you out a little.

In my experience, one factor that has a big impact on how flexible the item is after finishing is how flexible it is before finishing. If I want a piece to be flexible I'll flex the heck out of it before I apply the final finish.

After cutting the piece, I first apply a thin coat of neatsfoot with a piece of trimmed shearling or old t-shirt, with the oil mostly daubed out. To do that I use a more heavily soaked piece of shearling or rag to make an application to the flesh side. The flesh side can take a lot of neatsfoot and when I am done there the shearling/rag is daubed out enough to allow gradual, repeated applications to  the grain side. Don't apply it in one heavy coat. Rather, use a mostly daubed-out piece of shearling or rag.  After the oil has dried I apply a relatively generous coat of carnauba cream. I really like carnauba cream for the texture and flexibility it imparts to the leather. I even like the way it smells. I apply it in the same sequence, flesh side first, so that my shearling or rag isn't sopping wet by the time I turn my attention to the grain side. Once there, that mostly daubed-out applicator can be used to go over a piece multiple times until the desired amount has been applied evenly across the piece. If you go at the grain side with an applicator wet with carnauba cream, it will streak.

After the applications of neatsfoot oil and carnauba cream the grain surface is made pliable so that it won't be nearly so susceptible to cracking. I am then able to safely flex the leather through a fairly sharp angle. At that point I'll take a strap, for example, and put one end against my (clean, divot-free) workbench surface grain-side down and bend it down as much as I dare without cracking its delicate surface. Then I'll "roll" that bend back and forth across the piece from one end/side of the piece to the other. Meaning I press down with an even amount of pressure and roll the piece back and forth between my hand and the bench top until the leather "gives" and then move that bend along so that the it travels all the way along the length of the strap. Then I'll do the same thing with the flesh side out. The sharpness of the bend (how much force you apply) and the number of times you roll it over a given spot  as you move along/across the piece determine how flexible or even floppy the end result will be. If the piece will be destined for a certain curvature, say cuffs, you can leave that curve in and move on to your next operation. Otherwise you can roll a bend in vertical, horizontal, and any other direction to create flexibility in those directions as well.

When I've achieved the desired amount of flexibility I'll do whatever other operations the piece requires and then apply a final coat of yes, Bag Kote. I've tried most all final finishes and have found no better than good old Bag Kote for protecting my work. I don't care for shiny finishes and Bag Kote leaves a very pleasing matte finish. It's also much more user-friendly than, say, Resolene, which can be finicky. You can and, in fact, should apply it with a wet applicator and it will soak in, leaving a nice, even coat without streaking or spotting. Most of my products aren't destined for outdoor use but if the product does get wet, as long as it gets fully, not partially wet, it will return pretty much to its original condition. Bag Kote will allow spotting if only parts of the leather get wet, though. I haven't found a fully waterproof finish that isn't waxy, really shiny, or that cracks when flexed so I settle for the best looking and wearing dry-compatible finish I know of, Bag Kote.

One of the best things about Bag Kote is that it will flex without cracking and that was your original question.

I hope this helps some.

Thank you, Dwight, for all your generosity on this forum!

Michelle

[Boriqua]

I confirmed the tandy Pro water stains dont run. I did try the Turquoise and the three other colors I have and then ran water over them and absolutly no color runs off so since it doesnt rub you can use less sealant which should help keep things flexible.

 

Keplerts .. your right about the Turquoise being a bit weird. It seems to have little pigment so I had to shake it up good before I could get some nice coverage and I found I had to apply it let it dry and then reapply but I liked the final color. Only problem was it turned ugly fast when I sprayed it with 50/50 water/resolene. I have no idea why it happened. That particular piece of leather has been sitting on my shelf for over a year and I didnt pre dampen the leather so ..??

The piece I ran water over got darker but still a decent color for turquoise leather dye. The goat skin took the dye nicest. Didnt have any issues like that with the red, brown or black. Resolene didnt affect them. Here are some pix.

In the group shot going clockwise from top left

Piece that had been outdoors for a while in the sun and wind next was goat, then a piece of nasty 6 oz I have that hates dye, then a nice piece of absorbent 8/9 oz and finally the little keychain thing that I sprayed with resolene. The other pieces are how it looks after dye but before wetting

[keplerts]

Boriqua,

Maybe I got a bad batch!   Mine looks NOTHING like how yours came out. I will give it another try and see what happens.  Thanks for the update.  The color looks good, IMHO.

Tom

[Boriqua]

13 hours ago, keplerts said:

Boriqua,

Maybe I got a bad batch!   Mine looks NOTHING like how yours came out. I will give it another try and see what happens.  Thanks for the update.  The color looks good, IMHO.

Tom

My feeling is Turquoise leather dye may sit on the shelf longer than more traditional colors. Try shaking the bottle until you think you shook it enough .. then shake it a some more. Wish I had had one of those machines they use at the paint counter!

Then like i sad .. rub it in then let it dry out 15 minutes or so and give it another going over. I was pretty generous with how much I used too.

Alex

[TinkerTailor]

45 minutes ago, Boriqua said:

My feeling is Turquoise leather dye may sit on the shelf longer than more traditional colors. Try shaking the bottle until you think you shook it enough .. then shake it a some more. Wish I had had one of those machines they use at the paint counter!

Then like i sad .. rub it in then let it dry out 15 minutes or so and give it another going over. I was pretty generous with how much I used too.

Alex

Drop a couple clean ball bearings into the bottle and it helps get the settled portions broken up and distributed with the shaking. Come to think of it, even nuts and bolts would work. I just had a thought, If i built a holster for a dye bottle i could attach it to the handwheel of my machine so I get mixin with the stitchin......