Does a sheath need a safety lining?

[Willie0]

Hello,

I am making a sheath for an extremely sharp Cold Steel dagger out of 9/10 oz leather.  No kidding this thing is scary sharp.  I can imagine it piercing the leather if sheathed rapidly.  Any ideas of what would be good to use as a safety lining?

Thanks for any ideas

[bikermutt07]

Just apply a welt. It should be fine.

[Willie0]

I am using welts out of the 9/10 along the sides.  Should I make the sheath double strength as well?

[Instinctive]

Single 9/10 oz with the weld will be fine. I usually use a 1/2" with strip for the weld with a stitch 0.15" in from the outside edge. That leaves a little more than 3/8" of leather protecting the stitch.

[Dwight]

I made this sheath for a "scary sharp" BIG knife some years back.

I, too, was afraid of something happening, . . . so I took matters a different route.  

Instead of relying on a welt that over time might be compromised by the knife, . . . I lined the sheath with good old rawhide.  And the break in the rawhide is not at the blade, . . . but up on the back of the knife.  

That blade will have to cut through the rawhide, . . . then into the welt, . . . before it can hurt the sheath.  I'll be worm food long before that happens.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

[battlemunky]

I have several scary sharp knives and have yet to bust through a welt, even when used hard in the woods. If I was trying to get the sheath to perform some heroics then maybe I could get the knife to cut through it but that IMO isn't a sheath designer issue as much as it is the knife user realizing that a sheath is a safe means of carrying a knife and can only be expected to do so much.

I don't get upset at my wife's Prius when it can't pull a 5th wheel trailer.

Sure, you can over build the sheath but it can still be bested by a knife used in it in an unsafe manner. Unless you use metal, hardwood, or something as an inner sleeve. Even the rawhide could be compromised. I'm basically saying that if it comes down to a fight between a knife and a sheath, my money is on the knife alllll day. Just used to carry it around like its supposed to be, you should have no concerns although I do like the idea of the rawhide for an extra bit off toughness.

Please post some pics when you figure it out. I'm super interested to see how this goes.

[Willie0]

Thanks for the replies.  I am pretty excited about this project and will post a picture when it is finished. 

[TonyRV2]

Good luck with your sheath.  Building knife sheaths is the reason I got into leatherworking because I'm also a knifemaker.   With a 9-10oz welt, you could pull that knife in and out 10,000 times and I don't care how sharp it is, your not going to bust through to the stitching.  A person would really have to purposely start sawing on the welt to try to damage it to that extent.  As one other poster mentioned, after you get it all glued up put your stitch line about 1/8 to 3/16 or so from the edge and make your welt about 1/2 wide.  A person would have to cut through (sideways mind you) 5/16 of leather before a stitch was exposed.  Very unlikely so you can relax.  

[Willie0]

I probably wasn't clear enough originally.  I am thinking it is possible for the blade to be forced through the back of the sheath.  Unlikely, I know because the blade's path will be directed.  However, this thing is double edged and made to pierce.  The blade's owner is not concerned, I just want to do this right. 

 

[Instinctive]

5 minutes ago, Willie0 said:

I probably wasn't clear enough originally.  I am thinking it is possible for the blade to be forced through the back of the sheath.  Unlikely, I know because the blade's path will be directed.  However, this thing is double edged and made to pierce.  The blade's owner is not concerned, I just want to do this right. 

 

That helps. You can go to this style sheath then and have a welt on all sides if it works for the knife.

[YinTx]

Sounds a  bit like a dagger.  Perhaps study dagger and sword scabbard designs...

YinTx

[RockyAussie]

Some times I get a bit inventive so I might be tempted to get a bit of pvc pipe (electrical conduit) and heat it up to flatten it out then encase it into the pouch. No welt needed then really. I would only bother if I was really worried about the stabbing point or If I just wanted to impress myself some. I did some years back do a lot of croc covered knife sheaths for a knife making crowd in Norway and they supplied a plastic insert shaped for their knife blades. I think the knife was called a Puukka.

[garypl]

I have seen knife sheathes with Kydex liners - very thin and strong.  If you must have maximum protection against piercing the leather, give Kydex a try.  Available in small pieces on line.

[Willie0]

Here it is finished.  It feels pretty solid and the knife slides in and doesn't snag at all, so it should be good.  Looking forward to seeing the owner's face when he sees it.

I don't know how to make photos small enough to fit in one post, sorry.

[dikman]

Looks good, Willie. That's really about all you can do with a dagger, sewing both edges gives it a balanced look. Kydex, plastic etc liners may protect the leather, but are not that good for the knife's edge!

[battlemunky]

You killed it @Willie0!

[Willie0]

This is the back side.  I had a little machine trouble getting over the thick part on one side, so had to patch that up and finish it by hand.  There is some personal text under the paper.

 

[kiwican]

Very nice looking sheath

[Instinctive]

I think that is a really good style for a dagger and it looks great. Couple of questions:

Can you show us an edge shot to show the welt.

Is it a right hand or left carry? For me, the snap loop tab should point back when moving forward so it can't catch on something and open.

[Willie0]

The owner wanted a left carry.  I don't have a picture of the side that will load now.  My camera takes pictures that are too large for this website, and I haven't figured out how to resize them.

 

 

[dikman]

Irfanview. It's free and lets you size them to whatever you want.

[Peter Darby]

It looks very nice.  I like the way you reversed the keeper for a right hand draw on a left side carry.  I would have put the keeper next to the quillion so in the event of a fall the knife can't rise up in the sheath and plunge down through the back, especially when the sheath ages and the keeper is stretched out a bit.   Also placing the keeper next to the sheath allows for an easier one motion draw.  

[Willie0]

It is awkward to get past the keeper.  In the future I would ask if the owner wanted a keeper that wraps from the back and is less intrusive.  More like this one I did awhile back.

 

[Dwight]

On 10/3/2017 at 5:16 PM, Willie0 said:

Here it is finished.  It feels pretty solid and the knife slides in and doesn't snag at all, so it should be good.  Looking forward to seeing the owner's face when he sees it.

I don't know how to make photos small enough to fit in one post, sorry.

Good job WillieO, . . . someone mentioned the direction of the snap for the keeper, . . .  in this picture, . . . this is the way I make all right hand carry sheaths.  

While it may get snagged on something, . . . if it is a good snap, . . . you will feel the break if you are paying any attention at all, . . . AND, . . . in this format, . . . the rearward motion of the hand opens the snap, . . . then grasps the handle of the knife all in one motion.

Having the snap the other way makes it at least two motions, . . . and if you watch most people, . . . it is awkward at best for them, . . . no matter how long they have been carrying a sheathed knife.  

The other option is like the big bowie you had in the other picture where the keeper comes around from the back.  I like it about as well.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Josh Ashman]

Good job on the sheath! 

Apparently everyone has opinions on the keepers. I'll go ahead and share mine just for fun. I'm aware that they are worth exactly what they cost !

For a "wicked" sharp knife (really any knife) the down side I see to having the keeper up where you have it is that they seem easier to accidentally cut. I don't have any trouble un-snaping the keeper and drawing the knife with the flap going to the rear but I do always worry about cutting into the straps. As others have pointed out, the knife can also move out a little. Of course, for this to happen you'd have to be upside down, which would probably be much more concern than your knife coming out a little.

I like straps that come from the back and wrap around the guard, like you have on the Bowie knife much better. However, on that Bowie I'd have put it around the front of the guard to keep from having to worry about cutting it. As for having 2 motions to get the knife un-snapped versus 1 swift motion, I've never had a reason to quick draw a sheath knife. I do however regularly walk through brush which could accidentally unsnap a keeper that was "pointing forward". I do pay attention to stuff like that, and I try not to let myself get turned upside down, so having it come unsnapped wouldn't be "catastrophic". It would just need to be snapped back up and the chances of the knife falling out would be fairly minimal, but if you point the keeper "back" it wouldn't catch and come unsnapped in the first place.

Again, nice job on the sheath. The red and black with the buck stitching looks great and the shape of the sheath seems perfect to me. Solid work!

Josh