another belt measuring question

[Dave Richardson]

I want to make a belt for my granddaughters birthday who lives in another state. I will be using this type of buckle. How would I measure for proper fit to the middle hole ?

Edited October 19, 2018 by Dave Richardson

[fredk]

Buckle tongue bar to main hole = waist size

[ScoobyNewbie]

Do you mean hole distance? Because how do you figure waist size from the distance from bar to hook/tongue?

[Northmount]

Lay it out on a long sheet of paper.  You'll be able to visualize it much easier.  buckle end of belt of course loops around the buckle bar.  Then must extend around the waist to the hook side of the buckle.  The distance from the bar on the buckle to the hook might be 2".  So if you add up the belt from the bar to the middle hole on the billet, plus the 2" (or what ever the measure from bar to hook is), that will be the waist measurement.  Now you can work backwards to make the belt measurement.

So measure the girl's waist over clothes where the belt will be worn, deduct the bar to hook measurement, and you will have the belt length from buckle end (folded over) to the middle hole in the billet.  For a growing youngster, I would add a couple inches and make that the new middle hole in the billet.

If you do a search on this forum, you will find multiple threads with instructions.

Tom

[JLSleather]

http://www.jlsleather.com/diy/belt-info/

Scroll down to see belt size.  There are other factors involving the THICKNESS of the belt (affecting size) but for a little girl I wouldn't worry about it.  And if she's little (you didn't say if she's 5 or 25) then I would make the size the "middle" hole about 1" too big ... so she can still wear it now, but still wear it in a year.  Unless she's 25, in which case maybe give her 3 MORE holes ..

 

[Dave Richardson]

I have only made a few belts and have used roller buckles, all of them have come out short using different methods to size it.  The part I am missing is "adding couple inches" to waist measurement.

13 year old granddaughter, waist measurement over jeans is 30 1/2 inch, buckle bar to hook is 2 1/4 inch, want to use 4 holes ( wear hole, 1 smaller 2 bigger )

So......Fold to wear hole 30 1/2 plus couple inches (32 1/2) minus the 2 1/4 for buckle = 30 1/4  from fold to wear hole ?

JLS love your " 3 hole " method

 

[JLSleather]

couple inches for what? 'just cuz'?@! 

 

 

[Dave Richardson]

19 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

couple inches for what? 'just cuz'?@! 

Who knows, dosnt make sense to me either. All the belts Ive made have been short, figured I needed to add couple inches

 

Quote

 

 

 

[JLSleather]

Thickness of the leather matters - lots o folk seem to trip over that one.  

Much like pipe.  Go to the store, tell em you need 3" drain pipe.  But pipe can measure 3", and have a wall thickness from 3/32" to over 1/4" thick.  Clearly, they aren't going to hold the same amount.  The increased thickness makes the inside smaller.

I covered the difference somewhere around here already.. math wise.  See if I can find that..

[JLSleather]

Nope, can't find it.

In simplest terms, you need to add about 3/8" (actually closer to 10mm) for every 1/16" of leather thickness.  So an 8 oz belt (1/8" thick) would need to be 3/4-7/8" LONGER on the grain side. 

For your girl, waist size 30.5".  

• 6 0z belt = 31 1/8"
• 8 oz belt = 31 1/4"
• 12 oz belt = 31 3/4"

THEN, some clarity on buckles used. consider this ...

Belts need to be measured from "where they hook" - on the buckle and on the leather.

Changing the buckle can change the size of the belt, as shown.  These straps are all the SAME - only the buckle is different.

Two things about that:

1. replacing a belt with one with a same or similar buckle, you can just measure off the old leather (hook to hole).
2. you "lose" some at the fold, so to be accurate you're not actually measuring the (whole) buckle.. but rather the part of teh buckle that extends beyond the leather (since teh buckle actually goes BEHIND the fold).
3. The "size" belt you are making doesn't matter.. it's not a "percentage" .. just an allowance for leather thickness.

NOW, keep in mind that NONE of this accounts for measuring error, "cheaters", or outright lies about the size.

Got another minute?  I can tell you about the problems arising from people (mostly girls) giving you the "over the clothes" size over silk or knit slacks, who are now wearing that same belt with heavy denim. Or other people (mostly boys) who KNOW FOR A FACT they are a 34, because their Walmart bonded leather belt SAYS SO right on it (and they are NOT interested in hearing that cheap belt actually measured 35 1/2 when new, and has now stretched to 36 1/2).  And, just to have in mind .. so-called "vanity" pricing.  "BOX" stores often sell clothing (especially belts) marked wrong -- this is deliberate.  WHY would I go buy a belt from Jeff for $65 and listen to him tell me I'm a 38, when I could go to Walmart and get a belt for $21 and they'll tell me I'm a 34?@!  Hey, don't blame the messenger ..I'm just telling you how it goes.

Raise your hand if you feel that's way more info than you asked for ....

 

 

[JLSleather]

OH . WAIT>..... 

Somebody will come along shortly to argue these plain facts.  Perhaps because they dont "see" it and thus don't agree, and 1 or 2 gonna SWEAR that isn't right simply because it was me that said it

But any nay-sayers, do a simple test.   Take a glass, or anything else you have laying around.  Measure around the glass.  Cut two pieces of leather that length.  

Now, wrap the first piece around the glass.

Now, wrap the second piece around that ....

Yeah, thought so.

[wayner]

Hey Jeff

 As A friend of mine use to say ( he was a Engineer ) That was as clear as Mud. The ones that want to argue simply because its you tell them to Bug Off . you are always willing to help someone with information, and at least speaking for myself you never make that person feel stupid for asking the Question. And you have never steered me the wrong Direction. Thank you for all of your Contributions to Everyone in this group   

[JLSleather]

Well, I know I said roughly this before, but don't know just where / when. So here's the same info in a pdf, maybe easier to find attachments?

beltjunk.pdf

 

[Riem]

Jeff, thanks for this great resource! Ought to be pinned in this forum, methinks. Clear reasoning, practical advice. Saved to my "canonical resources" folder.

[Dave Richardson]

1 hour ago, JLSleather said:

Well, I know I said roughly this before, but don't know just where / when. So here's the same info in a pdf, maybe easier to find attachments?

beltjunk.pdf

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge. The long version of your explanation will most assuredly be printed and hung on my shop wall. My confusion with the "add two inches" after further research,  was actually for pant size vs belt size. 38 waist in pants size will probably be 41 inches from fold to wear hole on belt. So this weekend I randomly stopped girls at the mall and asked if I could measure their waist and then their belt to see if I was on the right track. The wife was not at all impressed with my data collecting...it was a good run. For my project the 30.5 inches was over the jeans she wears,  I went 28.5 inches from the fold to the wear hole cut from 8 oz., the buckle will add 2.25 inches. I added two holes past the wear hole ( 1 inch apart ) and 1 hole before the wear hole. We will see how it goes ......

[JLSleather]

Ya might run a little tight on that sizing, but hey -- I'm in awe of your determination and avid research

I always tell people do NOT go by the "pants size".. I have size 34 jeans I can't get on any more, and I also have "34" jeans that would FALL OFF if not for my belt.  Yet both say "34" ...

 

[ScoobyNewbie]

Thanks for the info. It seemed pretty clear to me and concise for the amount as well.

[Gabriel Rasa]

On 10/22/2018 at 8:22 AM, JLSleather said:

Or other people (mostly boys) who KNOW FOR A FACT they are a 34, because their Walmart bonded leather belt SAYS SO right on it (and they are NOT interested in hearing that cheap belt actually measured 35 1/2 when new, and has now stretched to 36 1/2). 

Oh man, THIS.

I'm like, I'll need your husband's waist size for this. "He wears 34-inch jeans." Yeah, just humor me, measure it anyway. "His waist is 36-38 inches." Uh-huh, that's what I thought.

I used to sell harnesses to the fetish crowd, and you would not believe how many people gave me aspirational rather than actual measurements, and then were dismayed when their stuff didn't fit.

[Dave Richardson]

On 10/22/2018 at 6:13 PM, JLSleather said:

Ya might run a little tight on that sizing, but hey -- I'm in awe of your determination and avid research

AAAAARRRRGGGGGGGG . re-made today with my new acquired measuring skills from your dimensions......starting to think I should have made a key fob for her birthday.

 

 

[Clintonville Leather]

On 10/22/2018 at 4:59 PM, Dave Richardson said:

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge. The long version of your explanation will most assuredly be printed and hung on my shop wall. My confusion with the "add two inches" after further research,  was actually for pant size vs belt size. 38 waist in pants size will probably be 41 inches from fold to wear hole on belt. So this weekend I randomly stopped girls at the mall and asked if I could measure their waist and then their belt to see if I was on the right track. The wife was not at all impressed with my data collecting...it was a good run. For my project the 30.5 inches was over the jeans she wears,  I went 28.5 inches from the fold to the wear hole cut from 8 oz., the buckle will add 2.25 inches. I added two holes past the wear hole ( 1 inch apart ) and 1 hole before the wear hole. We will see how it goes ......

Pants size is worthless.  Pants makers have been using vanity sizing since 1937. You have skinny -1" regular fit +2" relaxed fit +4" loose fit +5" so many different styles of pants and NONE of them are an accurate measurement.

That is the reason belt makers will say to add 2" and also the reason why half of the reviews will say This belt is too small!  I always have people measure an old belt.

[JLSleather]

On 10/23/2018 at 7:10 PM, Dave Richardson said:

AAAAARRRRGGGGGGGG . re-made today with my new acquired measuring skills from your dimensions......starting to think I should have made a key fob for her birthday.

Hey, I feel yer pain. GOOD NEWS IS, once she tried it then you KNOW where to alter.  Git expensive doing em all that way, not to mention maddening.

[immiketoo]

On October 22, 2018 at 6:22 PM, JLSleather said:

Nope, can't find it.

In simplest terms, you need to add about 3/8" (actually closer to 10mm) for every 1/16" of leather thickness.  So an 8 oz belt (1/8" thick) would need to be 3/4-7/8" LONGER on the grain side. 

For your girl, waist size 30.5".  

• 6 0z belt = 31 1/8"
• 8 oz belt = 31 1/4"
• 12 oz belt = 31 3/4"

THEN, some clarity on buckles used. consider this ...

Belts need to be measured from "where they hook" - on the buckle and on the leather.

Changing the buckle can change the size of the belt, as shown.  These straps are all the SAME - only the buckle is different.

Two things about that:

1. replacing a belt with one with a same or similar buckle, you can just measure off the old leather (hook to hole).
2. you "lose" some at the fold, so to be accurate you're not actually measuring the (whole) buckle.. but rather the part of teh buckle that extends beyond the leather (since teh buckle actually goes BEHIND the fold).
3. The "size" belt you are making doesn't matter.. it's not a "percentage" .. just an allowance for leather thickness.

NOW, keep in mind that NONE of this accounts for measuring error, "cheaters", or outright lies about the size.

Got another minute?  I can tell you about the problems arising from people (mostly girls) giving you the "over the clothes" size over silk or knit slacks, who are now wearing that same belt with heavy denim. Or other people (mostly boys) who KNOW FOR A FACT they are a 34, because their Walmart bonded leather belt SAYS SO right on it (and they are NOT interested in hearing that cheap belt actually measured 35 1/2 when new, and has now stretched to 36 1/2).  And, just to have in mind .. so-called "vanity" pricing.  "BOX" stores often sell clothing (especially belts) marked wrong -- this is deliberate.  WHY would I go buy a belt from Jeff for $65 and listen to him tell me I'm a 38, when I could go to Walmart and get a belt for $21 and they'll tell me I'm a 34?@!  Hey, don't blame the messenger ..I'm just telling you how it goes.

Raise your hand if you feel that's way more info than you asked for ....

 

 

Perfect reply.