"vegan" leather suitable for straps?

[blackmad]

Hey all,

A friend asked for a few piece made out of vegan leather. I'm looking for something that's thick/stiff enough to work for straps (bracelets, collars, harnesses) without sewing/gluing. Anyone have a suggestion of where to look / what to look for?

Thanks,

David

[chrisash]

I guess cow leather is Vegan as they only eat grass, but what you should be looking for is Vegtable Tanned leather called Veg Tan often made by tanning with the bark of Oak or other tree bark

You need different thickness for different products

Edited November 4, 2018 by chrisash

[Aven]

Check this thread

 

[blackmad]

4 hours ago, chrisash said:

I guess cow leather is Vegan as they only eat grass, but what you should be looking for is Vegtable Tanned leather called Veg Tan often made by tanning with the bark of Oak or other tree bark

You need different thickness for different products

not sure if you're trying to be funny, but I am looking for faux/vegan/vinyl leather, as in, not from animals.

I recognize this is a leather worker forum, and I primarily work in animal leathers - but I wanted to use the same techniques for someone who objects to wearing leather.

3 hours ago, Aven said:

Check this thread

 

That sadly doesn't give a sense of where to buy, or how to talk about the thickness of faux leathers

[NVLeatherWorx]

Then just go get some vinyl strapping somewhere and use that; there is no such thing as "vegan" leather and we all know that it is just artificial materials that are not within our materials matrix.  Being as you know that this is a leather forum and you work with the real thing you should know better than asking us about the garbage that we all work to replace.  Sorry, but such questions are not best suited for these forums.  Might I suggest that you go to your local Walmart and buy a couple of those fake belts they sell and use those.

[ScoobyNewbie]

Probably you can get plastic/vinyl strapping at sewing stores like Joanne’s, Hancock/Michael’s or such. Many online fabric places have straps. Maybe you can heat the straps or the stamps to melt the vinyl a bit so that you get a leather working effect?

Oh! Polymer clays! You could stamp the shapes into a thin sheet of polymer clay and then adhere it to the bracelet or journal cover, or whatever!

Edited November 5, 2018 by ScoobyNewbie

[chrisash]

Not knowing anything about you and assuming someone had told you to use veg tan and you wrongly thought they told you vegan, your reply is a insult to someone who tried to assist, maybe you could learn to write a more detailed question in future

[JLSleather]

Well, that was weird.  BY DEFINITION (no, really - literally THE definition) leather is "a material made from the skin of an animal by tanning or a similar process."

EDIT:  No, serioously. Really.  "Vegan" leather may have originated with one of those "men" who .. you know what -- nevermind.

Edited November 5, 2018 by JLSleather

[TonySFLDLTHR]

20 hours ago, blackmad said:

Hey all,

A friend asked for a few piece made out of vegan leather. I'm looking for something that's thick/stiff enough to work for straps (bracelets, collars, harnesses) without sewing/gluing. Anyone have a suggestion of where to look / what to look for?

Thanks,

David

 

6 hours ago, chrisash said:

Not knowing anything about you and assuming someone had told you to use veg tan and you wrongly thought they told you vegan, your reply is a insult to someone who tried to assist, maybe you could learn to write a more detailed question in future

5 hours ago, chrisash said:

Not knowing anything about you and assuming someone had told you to use veg tan and you wrongly thought they told you vegan, your reply is a insult to someone who tried to assist, maybe you could learn to write a more detailed question in future

First thing I thought when I saw the OP was that he was meaning Veg Tan as well. I did a quick search and evidently there is popular use of the phrase vegan leather...I assume this is because some people believe that is is possibly more friendly to animals and the environment alike.

A few highlights from this article: 

This leather substitute is used to make clothing, shoes, accessories, upholstery and more. It’s often indistinguishable from the real thing, and is much cheaper to manufacture.... (I can say this would apply to the consumer, because its not that hard to tell the difference).

...is made of scary materials like polyvinyl chloride (PVC), polyurethane and textile-polymer composite microfibres. In other words, generally speaking, ‘vegan leather’ reeks, literally and figuratively, of petroleum. 

It gets worse. Both leather and vegan leather production emit chemicals harmful to environment and factory workers alike.

Despite these eco-horrors, many eco-warriors find vegan leather production even worse. For example, the manufacture and incineration of PVC-based synthetics produce one of the most toxic chemicals known to man: dioxins. Found in almost every single modern human’s body, dioxins promote developmental disturbances and increase cancer risks tenfold.

Some manufacturers, including Valentino and the entire Gucci Group (now known as Kering) are very much aware of the issues surrounding leather production, and have now vowed to use only vegetable dyes, natural tanning processes....

 

All that being said just so we can all be a little more educated of the world around us. Sorry for the long post.

Now we do sell some cork here...it is pretty great to deal with and looks very trendy.

https://www.springfieldleather.com/search?keywords=cork

[chrisash]

So basically they object to eating meat but happy to polute the world slowley killing the entire animal and human population

[fredk]

To move on

11 hours ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

. . .  Might I suggest that you go to your local Walmart and buy a couple of those fake belts they sell and use those.

Whenever I needed a strap for a one-off purpose and didn't want to waste good leather on it I used to go to Charity [Thrift in the US] stores and buy cheap belts. I used to get them for about 50p [75c max] The shop was glad for them to go, get money in and also I got some decent buckles on them

[JLSleather]

31 minutes ago, chrisash said:

So basically they object to eating meat but happy to polute the world slowley killing the entire animal and human population

I'm eating steaks and burgers in an attempt to reduce the carbon emissions caused by large bovine herds.  Having consumed the meat, it seems wasteful and irresponsible to NOT use the hide and bone for useful purposes.  I'm all for doing it in the most eco-friendly manner possible, but to let it rot while you "produce" other materials is just ignorant.

But then, these days Oprah flies over a few thousand homeless CA people in her private jet burning jet fuel to tell people in GA that she cares about people and is all for clean air... so, what do I know?@!

[billybopp]

"Vegan leather" is just the newest in a long line of marketing terms for fake leather.  Patent leather, faux leather, man-made leather, vinyl, naugahyde, pleather, biothane, possibly "Corinthian Leather", and many others have been around for decades, with Biothane and Vegan leather being the most recent that I am aware of.   It has its places and effective uses (for example you probably would not want real leather for your dining room chairs, particularly with kids around), but mostly has its bad reputation as a cheap leather substitute sometimes being passed off as real leather.  

Some of these (vinyl), can be a good substitute for thinner leather (garment leather) when you are working out patterns and prototypes for real garment leather items.  

If your client insists on "vegan leather", despite all the negatives listed above by @TonySFLDLTHR and others, I'd suggest look at Biothane.  In addition to all that, I'd advise your friend/client that "real leather" is a by-product of the meat industry.  VERY few critters (minks and chinchilla come to mind) are slaughtered just for their hides, and they would go to waste otherwise.  That seems to me less cruel than just letting the non-meat parts go to waste.

You probably won't convince a vegan otherwise for they are a stubborn and preachy lot, but you can try.  If you go to a party of 100 people, and there are two vegans in the room how do you identify them?   THEY'LL TELL YOU.

-Bill

 

[bermudahwin]

Thanks Bill, for the review, it is very useful.

I would add Porvair to the pretend leathers, used a lot in the footware industry, as it was wipe clean for a shine (I think it may have been Tuf in the UK that marketted that, but I may have misremembered).

Patent leather, on the orther hand was genuine leather with a patent finish (some kind of dope) to give it a megashine.

Many reptile and amphibians go into the killed for their skin list too, as exotics.

Since I was about 13 I have had allergic reaction to eating all meats that I have tried - really the reaction is genuinely something I would wish on my worst enemies! As such I learned leatherwork and saddlery at college, as a vegetarian. Whoohoo, lets pick on the weird guy time.

It has never been an issue to me, as I would rather ALL of the animal was used to give it some grace and dignity, than just eating the flesh and not using any of the rest. I am happy for it to go to tanners, finishers, glue makers, whatever, but do not waste it.

I do not personally use exotice, but that's my choice, and I have seen stunning work with exotics, and marvel at it, I just cannot bring myself to use it.

I rarely bring up the fact that I am vegetarian, but boy, you are right about the New Vegans, a sect that seems to self evangelise more than most others (maybe electric car drivers too...)

If someone wants straps that aren't leather, that is their choice, but I will not buy in vinyl specially. I suggest fredk has it right, thrift store, or Richard suggesting Walmart.

Maybe I could get them to do me a meat free beef wellington, as easily as I can come to teams with animal free leather.

 

 

 

[bermudahwin]

Another, more useful thought.

If you are making straps or harness out of vinyl or similar, ensure you use a strong reinforcement on the back as its not useually as strong as the same weight leather.

[billybopp]

10 minutes ago, hwinbermuda said:

Thanks Bill, for the review, it is very useful.

I would add Porvair to the pretend leathers, used a lot in the footware industry, as it was wipe clean for a shine (I think it may have been Tuf in the UK that marketted that, but I may have misremembered).

Patent leather, on the orther hand was genuine leather with a patent finish (some kind of dope) to give it a megashine.

Many reptile and amphibians go into the killed for their skin list too, as exotics.

Since I was about 13 I have had allergic reaction to eating all meats that I have tried - really the reaction is genuinely something I would wish on my worst enemies! As such I learned leatherwork and saddlery at college, as a vegetarian. Whoohoo, lets pick on the weird guy time.

It has never been an issue to me, as I would rather ALL of the animal was used to give it some grace and dignity, than just eating the flesh and not using any of the rest. I am happy for it to go to tanners, finishers, glue makers, whatever, but do not waste it.

I do not personally use exotice, but that's my choice, and I have seen stunning work with exotics, and marvel at it, I just cannot bring myself to use it.

I rarely bring up the fact that I am vegetarian, but boy, you are right about the New Vegans, a sect that seems to self evangelise more than most others (maybe electric car drivers too...)

If someone wants straps that aren't leather, that is their choice, but I will not buy in vinyl specially. I suggest fredk has it right, thrift store, or Richard suggesting Walmart.

Maybe I could get them to do me a meat free beef wellington, as easily as I can come to teams with animal free leather.

 

 

 

I wouldn't know what to do if I became allergic to meat!   That's a tough row to hoe.  I'm sure you've learned to adapt, and sure that I would eventually too.  It's not easy finding all of the proteins necessary for our human dietary needs without meat, but harder still for pure vegans who avoid meat, and also eggs, milk, etc.  It's quite one thing to give up meat out of necessity, and another to do so voluntarily due to some sort of moralistic stance.  

I've never heard of Tuf, but there are so many faux leathers out there, and some really are useful for their purposes.  

I forgot to consider exotics, but you are quite right.  Those critters tend to be harvested just for their hides with the rest going to waste.  The fact that many of those are also endangered makes things all the worse.  It is a sad thing.

Patent leather was indeed originally real leather with a coating, and dates back nearly 200 years, but most of what was called patent leather from the latter half of the 20th century on was really just some form of vinyl.  

Lets not forget the ever-vigilant ex-smoker in the list of folks that'll let you know!!  And I often wonder if electric car drivers give any thought to the fact that manufacture of the batteries, the electricity that they use and other factors can often mean that their "low pollution vehicles" actually have a great carbon footprint than an economical fossil fueled car does.  I suppose, also, that we leatherworkers tend to evangelize a bit about our love of leather too. 

- Bill

[chrisash]

I really feel for anyone with any alergie, it seems according to our press to be a ever increasing problem with death as a possible outcome for some, and placing your life on the line by trusting the ingredients shown on a packet to be true

Again i have a great distaste on the needless slaughter of any animal for its skin, but do understand the need for culling some breeds and using those skins

[bermudahwin]

Thanks for the sympathy guys, but its been 45 years, and I am well used to it. Not life threatening, but very unpleasant.

Still enjoy leatherwork.

[bikermutt07]

If I was in the predicament as the O.P. I would do the following. Ymmv.

Find a flooring store that has lots of vans. Where I work at most of the vans were 15 passenger 1 tons. Lots of unused seat belt straps. You can fold them up to make them thinner. Then wrap them in the pleather.

Now when the vegan has the nice bag constructed entirely out of petroleum products they can feel all righteous when protesting leather or oil barons. 

Good luck, sorry I couldn't help but throw that last line in there.

[Aven]

10 hours ago, billybopp said:

I wouldn't know what to do if I became allergic to meat!   That's a tough row to hoe.  ....

Be careful when you are outside.  Tick bites can cause a "meat allergy".

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/06/tick-bite-meat-allergy-spreading-spd/

[robs456]

I can never understand why vegans "can't" use leather, it's not like they're going to eat their belts or bags. And the cow didn't die for the skin, someone else ate it and the skin would go to waste unless we used it.
So if you're vegan because you love animals, I think you're disrespecting the animal by NOT using leather products.

But I ran into something weirder when trying to sell yoga mat holders to a girl and her group. She said no one would by them as they didn't use leather because the soul of the animal was trapped in the hide.
WTF?
I believe yoga is from India where they believe the soul passes on to the next life so what kind of new age hipster makes up a quasi-religion just  to avoid buying leather products?
If she'd just said that cows are holy animals I would understand, but these were no Hindus, just a bunch of new age yoga freaks.

[bermudahwin]

Wow, Ticks and meat allergy, who'd have thunk it?

I refuse to even consider animals souls in the skins, just not on my radar, and will be ignored if it comes on my radar. SHEESH!

Bikermutt, that would work. Good thought.

H

[Northmount]

Just a little note:

Vegetarians and Vegans are not necessarily the same thing. 

Vegans won't touch anything that is assumed to harm an animal during its production.  For example, they wont use wool because some sheep have such heavy 'coats' that maggots will grow in the folds around the sheep's neck.  They wont eat eggs or chickens because the chickens are cooped up in such small places and not allowed to range free.  I'm more in favor of the older farms and ranches where animals have space to live.  I don't really agree with warehousing animals.  I guess a lot of it is what you have grown up with.

Vegetarians just don't eat meat.  Depending on their culture, that may or may not include chickens, fish, eggs, milk, cream, etc.

Now obviously you will find vegetarians that have developed into full blown vegans.  It can happen in any family!  Just less likely for either if they were raised on a farm or ranch. 

I know of others that are allergic or have health issues that have forced them into being vegetarian, and most are not happy with the change in their life.

Tom

[bermudahwin]

59 minutes ago, Northmount said:

Just a little note:

Vegetarians and Vegans are not necessarily the same thing. 

Vegans won't touch anything that is assumed to harm an animal during its production.  For example, they wont use wool because some sheep have such heavy 'coats' that maggots will grow in the folds around the sheep's neck.  They wont eat eggs or chickens because the chickens are cooped up in such small places and not allowed to range free.  I'm more in favor of the older farms and ranches where animals have space to live.  I don't really agree with warehousing animals.  I guess a lot of it is what you have grown up with.

Vegetarians just don't eat meat.  Depending on their culture, that may or may not include chickens, fish, eggs, milk, cream, etc.

Now obviously you will find vegetarians that have developed into full blown vegans.  It can happen in any family!  Just less likely for either if they were raised on a farm or ranch. 

I know of others that are allergic or have health issues that have forced them into being vegetarian, and most are not happy with the change in their life.

Tom

Thanks Tom,

Yup, I am happilly vegetarian, and you forgot Fruitarians and Pescatarians from your list.

A vegan is always a vegetarian, but not all vegetarians are vegan. Vegetarians donteat flesh, and that includes chicken and fish.

I am Lacto-ovo vegetarian, as I can eat eggs and dairy, My brother has an immediate reaction to eggs, so I got the lucky cal in our family.

I know and am friends with many veggies and vegans, and have never tried to convince one top change their lifestyle. I am often admonished by vegans for eating dairy and eggs, and using leather.

Whilst a bit of the above has been off-topic, there is sensible advice on alternatives to leather, as well as more esoteric discussion of why people would happilly use products that are reliant on the petrochem industry, whist not using the readily available by product of the meat industry.

Best

Harry

 

[DV8DUG]

And vegans do not drink mead or eat honey. Not because we box up bees or abuse them with smokers while we steal their honey. It's because bees add invertase....  This enzyme helps change sucrose into equal parts glucose and fructose. Just droppin' knowledge.