Servo motors -- UGH!

[MikeG]

So, I would like to tame my machine by installing a servo motor.  I have scoured these boards and there seems to be a lot of anecdotal information, but I still have a lot of questions I can't answer.  There is a fabulous thread about which machines work for specific applications (thanks WIZ),  I sure wish we could come up with something similar for motors.  So here goes.

1.  Starting speed:  100 RPM seems to be best.  I cannot find that specification even on manufacturer's websites.  They all claim "slow starting speed," but again . . .

2.  Brushless versus brushes:  Almost all new motors are brushless.  From this forum, I'm almost convinced a motor with brushes will have better low speed torque.  Don't know if this is true.  Family Sew apparently makes both types, but apparently only one vendor sells the one with brushes.  i cannot find it listed anywhere else, which makes me wonder if it is obsolete?

3. There is some opinion on "crappy" motors - most of this is older info.  Enduro gets a bad rap, don't know if the new ones have improved.  Rex seems like it might be the same as Family Sew, again, only opinions on here. 

4.  220V versus 110V.  I can use either. mak

I assume that sewing leather, I am like many if not most here.  I would like to stitch at about 1 stitch per second.  If that was the only speed, I would be happy.  If I could control it between 1 stitch per second to 5 stitches per second, I would be ecstatic.

So would the right move be to pick up a Rex on ebay  and take a 2 year warranty thru square trade?

I've reread this about 5 times, and I'm worried it sounds like a rant.  It's not intended to be.  It's just the more I read, the less I feel like I know.

 

 

 

 

[Leathermaker831]

O bought a csm1001 I think thats the model number it comea with a needle positioning sensor and it sucks the speed on it is alot faster than what they claim zamier sewing I called back because I couldn't get it to scroll down on the digital display slower than 16 and it goes all the way up to 45 I believe it is way to fast for a someone that is just learning how to especially when it comes to intricate designs on automotive upholstery. So I put that motor on my Consew skiving machine and installed the servo motor from the skiving machine to the consew 206rb5 and it is much slower and its the servo that has a dial in the motor unit itself on the first dial the sewing machine wont turn so I turn it up one knotch and it sews alot slower than the csm1001 which was more expensive it was an upgrade that they talked me into saying it was the slowest motor with the largest range of speed. I have gave up on slowing down my machine and I'm just going to master what I have upholsteres back in the days were only working with clutch motors and they did amazong work. I think slowing down your sewing machine became a hype that got into everybody includidng myself. My instructor has ine functional hand and he is able to produce top quality work with a Consew 206rb2 with a clutch motor. I do remember sailrite had a good servo motor but they dont have it anymore at least its not on their website but it was a couple hundred dollars. I did not try to install a speed reducer on the machines I mentioned above with the servo motors I got from zamier sewing maybe thats my problem. Anyhow I dont think it is a very good idea to slow down these machine down to ridiculously slow speeds dont they need the speed to lubricate itself besides engineers intended for these machines to sew at their recomended sewing speed for a reason. Maybe im wrong but I also like my vehicles stock no shinny big wheels and loud music.

[Pintodeluxe]

The Rex / Family type 550W servos work fine.  I usually swap the motor pulley for a 45mm pulley.  This slows it down even more.

The dial will let you adjust the max speed.  If it isn't slow enough for the work you do, then you'll have to add a speed reducer.  

[MikeG]

2 hours ago, Leathermaker831 said:

 Anyhow I dont think it is a very good idea to slow down these machine down to ridiculously slow speeds dont they need the speed to lubricate itself besides engineers intended for these machines to sew at their recomended sewing speed for a reason. Maybe im wrong but I also like my vehicles stock no shinny big wheels and loud music.

I probably should have mentioned - I have a No. 9 Stitcher.  It can be operated by hand, which is what I do mostly because I can control it better.  So no issues with running it at snail speed.

[MikeG]

51 minutes ago, Pintodeluxe said:

The Rex / Family type 550W servos work fine.  I usually swap the motor pulley for a 45mm pulley.  This slows it down even more.

The dial will let you adjust the max speed.  If it isn't slow enough for the work you do, then you'll have to add a speed reducer.  

Thanks -- I contacted Bob at Toledo and ordered the Family Sew.  He sells it with a small pulley and I already have a speed reducer, so it should do the trick!!

[Leathermaker831]

Yeah I can understand why you would want to sew at low speeds with leather but in automotive upholstery I see lots of old timers accomplishing intricate designs at fast speeds with clutch motors. 

[MikeG]

It has taken me a long time to finally pull the trigger on a servo for my No. 9 stitcher.   I bought this monster early in my leatherwork journey before understanding it is way beyond what I really needed for the work I have been doing.  As a result, I have had a love/hate relationship with this machine since I have owned it and have not trusted it to sew any important work - in short, it has been a very expensive sculpture and conversation piece.   It has even resisted multiple efforts to sell it,  just sitting there quietly gloating as I hand sew projects.  So after over a year of considering a servo, I finally decided to get the Family Sew servo with brushes from Bob at Toledo.

I received my motor in just a few days and spent an afternoon installing it -  It was not quite plug & play as the mount on the servo motor is smaller & I had to drill new holes in the table and then enlarge them to get the drive belt aligned nice & straight.  Once done, it is a nice looking and clean install and runs quietly and true. 

With the old motor, this machine sounded like the hammers of hell - I named it Mjolnir, after Thor's hammer.  With the new motor, it will stitch quietly as slow as I want.

I have not sewn any projects with it yet, but I tested it on 3 layers of 8oz. stock and it punches perfect stitches at a very slow speed. 

In summary, I am very happy I made this purchase and I believe the old stitcher and I may finally become friends.

Thanks to all on these forums, past and present.  I have probably read every sewing machine and motor post on here - many multiple times.  Good place to hang out!

 

[chrisash]

Bet you now wish you had done in years ago

Nice to hear you are using old iron and keeping it alive

[CowboyBob]

Sounds like the new motor will turn your machine into something you'll want to use more.

[iron1951]

Mike G, thanks for starting this thread. Just what I was looking for, a thread about motors. I also have been researching motors but have not bought one yet. I also feel that motors with brushes will run slower and have more torque, but I have no proof. Some motors run upwards to 5,000 rpm which I don't want considering my clutch motor runs at only 1750 rpm and is too fast. Techsew has a 800w motor that runs from 300-1600 rpm but is more expensive and no talk of creeping speed.

Personally I have made my own speed reducer to use with my clutch motor which gives me a slow speed and lots of torque. Its great for sewing but sometimes too slow once I get started on a long run. The problem I experience is trying to lift the needle with the wheel. My motor has a brake so I need to depress the pedal "a little" to release the brake. If I depress too much I start to sew again.

My perfect motor would be 550 watts (about 3/4 hp), 0-1750 rpm with a pedal that allows me to start slow with the torque to go through thick material (may need 800 watts?). Brake, probably electronic. The brake needs to release so that I can turn the wheel to lift the needle. An optional position sensor that can be added later if I want. Speed control at the on/off switch would be a bonus. The motor should be adjustable for belt tension and backwards-forward to line up the pulleys. The motor does not need to be brushless. I don't want to plug a light into this motor. I don't want to run a speed reducer with this motor.

[DFH]

You can back the brake off or at least you can on all my clutch motors .

[iron1951]

21 hours ago, DFH said:

You can back the brake off or at least you can on all my clutch motors .

I will give that a try.

[luxuryluke]

I will assuredly reread this and other threads before making a purchase. 

I’m very new to leather stitching with a machine. But I can’t imagine needing to sew more than 5 sps for the foreseeable future. Quiet is wonderful. Torque important. Positioning a dream. At this point price is mostly irrelevant. These are not ridiculously priced. Just have to find the right combo of motor and reducer for my machine age (‘60s) and style (cylinder).

Edited March 2, 2019 by luxuryluke
Autoreplace doesn’t behave

[nylonRigging]

On 1/8/2019 at 7:06 AM, iron1951 said:

My perfect motor would be 550 watts (about 3/4 hp), 0-1750 rpm with a pedal that allows me to start slow with the torque to go through thick material (may need 800 watts?). Brake, probably electronic. The brake needs to release so that I can turn the wheel to lift the needle. An optional position sensor that can be added later if I want. Speed control at the on/off switch would be a bonus. The motor should be adjustable for belt tension and backwards-forward to line up the pulleys. The motor does not need to be brushless. I don't want to plug a light into this motor. I don't want to run a speed reducer with this motor.

( imho ) if looking for that edge over a everyday 550 watt, 4amp servo drive . Go for a ( Consew CSM3000 ) it a 750 watt and pulls 6amp, and It really improves the low rpm torque when your just bumping the needle threw some heavy or stiff materials with staying very smooth on the slow rpm light pedal pressing .

it also has a couple accessory plugs for future position sensor ..  with speed control on the on/off switch .. ' like your asking for ' . and break is released for easy moving of needle with hand .

.

Edited March 9, 2019 by nylonRigging

[luxuryluke]

Whoa, that Consew CSM-4002 has a port for presser foot lift.