Anyone ever do an apprenticeship? Was it worth it?

[JC2019]

Hi all, new here.  I've been starting to research and I was wondering if anyone here has had more "formal" training? What did you learn and how long was it for? What was the cost (if any)? Would you recommend it? 

What do courses typically cost? I am in the bay area if you could recommend anything. I've found a few classes that cost  $3k+ around me.

Thanks

[RockyAussie]

4 hours ago, JC2019 said:

Hi all, new here.  I've been starting to research and I was wondering if anyone here has had more "formal" training? What did you learn and how long was it for? What was the cost (if any)? Would you recommend it? 

What do courses typically cost? I am in the bay area if you could recommend anything. I've found a few classes that cost  $3k+ around me.

Thanks

What do they offer for $3k I have to ask. Got me curious as you mentioned an interest in exotics which is 95 % of my business making for other brand names. Most of the product on our web site is the same designs we do for others in crocodile products mostly. A look into my profile here should show you more. What type of products and level of training are you wanting? For a day or 2 of showing how its done and what with it would cost you 0000 + a flight to here and back. For 2 weeks solid full time maybe 2k. For a long as allowed time ......perhaps depends on your ability to work and again the cost of a flight to here and back. 

[chrisash]

Good offer by Rocky, with his skills i wish i could go myself

Apprenticeships may be the wrong word to describe what you are looking for, in the UK and many other countries a apprenticeships lasts about 3 to 5 years working under a master tradesman, but watered down now to cheap labour and a bit of basic schooling for many positions which are a insult to call apprenticeships

[Matt S]

Apprenticeships in most of the world tend to involve the apprentice working full time alongside experienced professionals for several years. There are often formal exams and certificates throughout. The apprentice is paid commensurate with their experience and skill, and adds value to the master's business by doing a lot of the drudge work, and even taking on some of the teaching of less experienced apprentices.

Here in the UK there are typically three different "apprenticeship routes" to leatherwork: saddler, harness maker and cordwainer. Each takes about three years of full time education.

[arashikage]

2 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

For a day or 2 of showing how its done and what with it would cost you 0000 + a flight to here and back. For 2 weeks solid full time maybe 2k. For a long as allowed time ......perhaps depends on your ability to work and again the cost of a flight to here and back. 

Be careful you may get a swarm of people taking you up on this offer!   I'm thinking about it now.

[Rockoboy]

10 minutes ago, arashikage said:

I'm thinking about it now.

Hmmm ... How many frequent flyer points do I need for Perth to Rockhampton?

[bermudahwin]

56 minutes ago, Matt S said:

Apprenticeships in most of the world tend to involve the apprentice working full time alongside experienced professionals for several years. There are often formal exams and certificates throughout. The apprentice is paid commensurate with their experience and skill, and adds value to the master's business by doing a lot of the drudge work, and even taking on some of the teaching of less experienced apprentices.

Here in the UK there are typically three different "apprenticeship routes" to leatherwork: saddler, harness maker and cordwainer. Each takes about three years of full time education.

My three year full time, degree level course at college in London in 1980 ish covered Leathergoods of all kinds design, pattern cutting, making etc, Factory Management, and one year full time Saddlery and ancilliary trades. There was no available, similar apprenticeship, but we took the same City and Guilds of London examinations as the specialist apprentices in say Light Leathergoods Production, Cutting, Skiving etc, leading towards the final qualifications.

At todays rates the annual cost would be more than £9000, plus living expenses, in London (Cordwainers College has been subsumed into the London College of Fashion, part of the University of the Arts, London).

If my business was bigger, I would offer an apprenticeship, but I would be their employer (hand in glove with the UK goverment nowadays), and when we get the sales going through, I will look into this, as Cordwainers no longer exists in the same format.

H

[Lobo]

I started in 1972, having only a brief introduction to leather crafting in public school about 10 years prior (as I recall I made a key case for my mother). Found a couple of books in the public library, read a few articles by those with some experience. There was no Internet, no Leatherworker.net. Basically, I had to learn every step and every process by trial and error. Somehow that must have worked because my little holster business was a good sideline during all my years as a cop. When the internet came along I started offering a few products on-line, and that generated other orders. I developed a website and the business took off like I never would have imagined (customers in all 50 US states and 33 other countries).

I became the businessman needing help. I hired and trained several people, including some good workers and a few slackers, but by the time they started becoming reasonably productive their lives took other directions. For several years I felt more like a babysitter than an employer. The employees always got their days off, holidays, vacation time, and paychecks. I never had a day off, never took a vacation, and (depending on cash flows) frequently had to short myself to make payrolls.

Personally, I think a paid apprenticeship would be a wonderful idea! Young person pays me to teach a trade, maybe that young person would place a higher value on the lessons learned.

Sold the business in 2015 and retired for good. Only leather work I have done since has been a hat band for my new Stetson.

[JC2019]

5 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

What do they offer for $3k I have to ask. Got me curious as you mentioned an interest in exotics which is 95 % of my business making for other brand names. Most of the product on our web site is the same designs we do for others in crocodile products mostly. A look into my profile here should show you more. What type of products and level of training are you wanting? For a day or 2 of showing how its done and what with it would cost you 0000 + a flight to here and back. For 2 weeks solid full time maybe 2k. For a long as allowed time ......perhaps depends on your ability to work and again the cost of a flight to here and back. 

Thanks all. Perhaps the right word would I should have used is atelier. 

Ah, and yeah I would love to that one day, especially because of my interest in exotics. That seems like a fantastic offer. I may ask you some questions. I believe you are also interested in 3d printing and lasers (from your album)?

One is  Amblard Leather Atelier (Hermès trained teacher) , mainly starting with small stuff building up to bag making. It's about $3.5k for the starter class of 12 full Saturdays. The entire program seems to add up to maybe closer to 17k.

The other is John Fong Exotics, (found him on a list of exotic suppliers posted here actually) who I went to visit because of my interest in exotics and I didn't realize he also offered classes. That is also about $3k for 3 full weeks (which can be spread over weekends) to learn how to make moccasins, belts, wallets and misc accessories.

They both seem like great options to me but I don't know much. I would do both if money was of no concern. I will need to save up and be a bit responsible. My interest is in everything from wallets, backpacks, jackets  but i've always had a weak spot for footwear.  I'm a complete beginner and I am not sure if I am too green for these classes. 

 

I suppose the balance is always between spending that money on tools and material and messing up on my own. But I am not sure, a good teacher in my eyes is worth a lot, especially for things like footwear. I can't even find many resources on "modern  moccasins". Much less on making cowboy boots which I know takes years to learn and I've only seen a $900~ DVD online recommended on a guide on reddit. The other thing I find extremely hard to find even books on  are exotics. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by JC2019

[bikermutt07]

38 minutes ago, JC2019 said:

Thanks all. Perhaps the right word would I should have used is atelier. 

Ah, and yeah I would love to that one day, especially because of my interest in exotics. That seems like a fantastic offer. I may ask you some questions. I believe you are also interested in 3d printing and lasers (from your album)?

One is  Amblard Leather Atelier (Hermès trained teacher) , mainly starting with small stuff building up to bag making. It's about $3.5k for the starter class of 12 full Saturdays. The entire program seems to add up to maybe closer to 17k.

The other is John Fong Exotics, (found him on a list of exotic suppliers posted here actually) who I went to visit because of my interest in exotics and I didn't realize he also offered classes. That is also about $3k for 3 full weeks (which can be spread over weekends) to learn how to make moccasins, belts, wallets and misc accessories.

They both seem like great options to me but I don't know much. I would do both if money was of no concern. I will need to save up and be a bit responsible. My interest is in everything from wallets, backpacks, jackets  but i've always had a weak spot for footwear.  I'm a complete beginner and I am not sure if I am too green for these classes. 

 

I suppose the balance is always between spending that money on tools and material and messing up on my own. But I am not sure, a good teacher in my eyes is worth a lot, especially for things like footwear. I can't even find many resources on "modern  moccasins". Much less on making cowboy boots which I know takes years to learn and I've only seen a $900~ DVD online recommended on a guide on reddit. The other thing I find extremely hard to find even books on  are exotics. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The world of shoes and boots really is hard to get into without some teaching being involved. There is just so so much to it, and not a lot of cordwainers/boot makers around. I have been researching and gathering tools and tidbits of resources for over two years off and on. I still haven't made a pair yet. But, I know some of that is my endless fruitless pursuit of perfection. They say the pursuit of perfection is paralysis. 

I suffer from this a lot.