When can you call yourself a craftsman?

[YinTx]

5 hours ago, Handstitched said:

 I'll explain later ( in quite  lengthy detail)

Awaiting explanation before I toss in a pointless opinion...

4 hours ago, chrisash said:

You can call yourself a accountant, builder, plumer , engineer, scientist, master craftsman, surveyor

Not so here.  Most of those require a license, and in some instances a degree.  I know individuals who have interviewed and worked as engineers, and were found out later to have not acquired a Bachelors of Science in said field.  It was not pretty.  If you work on something that required a PE (Professional Engineers's) stamp, with out said credentials, jail time is not out of the question.  Many states the law requires you to prominently display your acquired degree and licensing in your place of employment.  You do plumbing etc in a building not under a licensed plumber, bad news.  If I'm paying an accountant, I would expect them to be credentialed.

So with all this, I've seen folks call themselves "Master (leatherworking skill of something or another)" and have wondered how they came to acquire such titles.  In some of those cases, it seemed self-adorned, especially when observing the quality of the work.  I have no official training, have not passed any tests, nor have I been endowed with any such titles by any entity, and so I merely refer to myself as a leather worker.  Perhaps I am short changing myself, but I'd really prefer not to mislead.

YinTx

[JLSleather]

19 minutes ago, YinTx said:

In some of those cases, it seemed self-adorned, especially when observing the quality of the work

  Yup.  Not very popular to say these days, but.... yeah.

21 minutes ago, Hildebrand said:

I suspect if he is that will be short lived if his product is subpar, word will spread quickly.

I don't think that's the case any more.  Do a search on ebay and you'll find folks making $39 holsters... and selling THOUSANDS of them.  Hideous, poorly designed, and badly executed.  Still, $25 profit... 10,000 times... pretty good chunk of easy money.  I would NOT call him / them / whatever a "craftsman", and yet .... they still there.

It seems that many these days are more interested in FAST and CHEAP than about quality or beauty.  Each his own, I suppose.

Edited July 17, 2019 by JLSleather

[Tugadude]

19 minutes ago, YinTx said:

Awaiting explanation before I toss in a pointless opinion...

Not so here.  Most of those require a license, and in some instances a degree.  I know individuals who have interviewed and worked as engineers, and were found out later to have not acquired a Bachelors of Science in said field.  It was not pretty.  If you work on something that required a PE (Professional Engineers's) stamp, with out said credentials, jail time is not out of the question.  Many states the law requires you to prominently display your acquired degree and licensing in your place of employment.  You do plumbing etc in a building not under a licensed plumber, bad news.  If I'm paying an accountant, I would expect them to be credentialed.

So with all this, I've seen folks call themselves "Master (leatherworking skill of something or another)" and have wondered how they came to acquire such titles.  In some of those cases, it seemed self-adorned, especially when observing the quality of the work.  I have no official training, have not passed any tests, nor have I been endowed with any such titles by any entity, and so I merely refer to myself as a leather worker.  Perhaps I am short changing myself, but I'd really prefer not to mislead.

YinTx

Yes, without the backing of an organization, institution, union or guild, it is self-adornment.  With the others there is at least the appearance of if not actual assessment and adherence to standards.

1 hour ago, Handstitched said:

Well , this is interesting  . 

Also, is a craftsman defined by the quality of the work? And/ or by staying true to the craft? 

 

Thank you all for your responses so far . 

HS

Yes, if you look at the verbiage in the link I posted, there is an expectation of respect for the craft and the quality of workmanship. 

[Tugadude]

Members of the Guild of Master Craftsmen are required to maintain our Aims and Objectives, or membership will be revoked.

These are:

1. To bring together all artisans engaged in a craft, art, trade, profession or vocation, in order to safeguard the interests of both craftsmen and the public.
2. To ensure that the minimum qualifications for membership preserve the high standards of The Guild by excluding unskilled tradesmen.
3. To publicise these high standards through national and local media, thus increasing public awareness of the ideals and aims of The Guild and its members.
4. To promote to the public the trading assets of its members, their honour, integrity, professional expertise, high standards of workmanship and the value for money which they offer.
5. To provide clear identification and recognition for members, in order to enable the public to distinguish them from unskilled tradesmen who try to pass themselves off as master craftsmen, and so to attract and direct work to members of The Guild.
6. To assist all members and to protect them against the damaging and devaluing activities of the unskilled, against bureaucratic discrimination, against penal taxation and adverse legislation. Equally, to protect the public by instilling in our members a greater sense of responsibility, alerting them to the national importance of the services they render, monitoring these standards to ensure that The Guild’s high standards are being maintained, and by encouraging members to always strive for excellence.
7. To encourage an interchange of views amongst members, to unite these views and to bring them to the attention of the Government and local authorities in order to safeguard the livelihood and welfare of members and their dependants.
8. To constitute a pressure group to seek the support of one or more Members of Parliament to make sure that someone speaks out for the interests of Guild members where it matters most.
9. To promote continual research within the craft, trade, art, profession or vocation in which members are engaged, thus benefitting both members and the public. 
10. To foster learning amongst apprentices and students in order to perpetuate the survival, evolution and success of their particular craft. 
11. To promote sponsorship of The Guild by persons, firms and organisations, whether by financial support, by endorsement of the activities of The Guild, or by patronage.

[LatigoAmigo]

I may be saying this because I will never be a full-time leather crafter, nor will I ever apprentice under someone to expand my skill set. I just like "doing" leather work and having fun. But if someone is simply willing to buy your hand-crafted leather product, you might very well be able to consider yourself a "crafts-person."

[JLSleather]

2 hours ago, LatigoAmigo said:

if someone is simply willing to buy your hand-crafted leather product, you might very well be able to consider yourself a "crafts-person."

Yup, gonna go with that. Even then, I try to keep in mind that I decide what I call ME.  Next guy's tag or title is on him

 

[chrisash]

We have organisations like this in the Uk , I don't know about yours but some in the uk have no professional qualifications to entry, give you the title master craftsman and some rules that may or maynot be adhered to, and the purpose of many is to collect fees and make the owner a lot of money, so basically as long as you are willing to pay you are welcome to join

Others have very stiff exams to pass taking anything from about 3 years to maybe 7 years and demand quality with those not obeying the rules thrown out

I understand that Germany has incredibly hard guids and you need to join one to trade

[Firewalker]

It seems like "craftsman" is a label that other people call you but you don't really call yourself.  In the most pure sense of the word if you have built, made, crafted anything you are a craftsman.  I also agree there are many who fit this title that are not that skilled at it.  I too have wondered where the title comes from when you read "master leather worker" and I would also assume the title was given to an individual by their guild or maybe it is after receiving an award or some other high level recognition by an organization.  I also agree with Jeff regarding someone doing xyz "for 40 years" yet it is still not in line with what you would consider decent work.  I work in the medical field as my "day job" and I have encountered MANY people who justify their technique with their years of experience.  I have been the bearer of bad news on occasion by letting them know they have been doing it incorrectly for x amount of years.  I do not do this just to bash someone but I will do it if a patient's safety is at risk.

The use of craftsman is too generic to get too bent out of shape over IMO.  I have only done this for a couple of years this month and I am quite happy with the items I make and sell a lot of them.  Does it make me some sort or craftsman, guru, master?  Nope, I am just a guy who loves working leather, pushing my limits, still making mistakes and trying to get better every day.  No label required for me.

Be well all,

Scott

[Handstitched]

Okay, this is the reason I posed this question . 

At a regular market I’ve attended for 13 years,where I’ve been the only leather worker all that time,  I spotted someone making   ' hand made belts'  ,assembling belts on the spot,    but he is quoted as a ' highly skilled craftsman'   &  ' craftsman' .

At first I felt a little threatened, and a bit peeved as business is hard enough as it is, but more  insulted than anything else  . I don’t even call myself a ‘ craftsman ‘, I personally don't feel I  have earned that title . I call myself a 'leather worker', but not a craftsman .  What people call me is their choice, mostly ' the leather man' . ( however,  I' m happy to accept 'over weight'  or ' short & fat '     )   

 I felt  much better that evening when my gut instinct kicked in and  I took the time to check what he was making on his web page, (and some support from my good ol' Mum )  .  Sure, he was making some ‘nice belts’ with nice buckles etc. , but when I zoomed in, I could see that they were unfinished , IMO anyway  . Although the belts were cut out on a press, thats  normal, but  they  were un-bevelled , no burnishing,I could see fibres sticking out all over the place, (  my Mum spotted that  )   no edge dying,  2.8-3.0mm chrome tanned  leather thats not dyed all the way through on some colours ( you can clearly  see the blue/ grey along the edge) , and what belts did have patterns were done using a roller press, and twice the price of what I charge  for a well crafted belt using 4mm & 5mm  veg tan leathers  utilising skills I learnt from Al Stohlman  and other respected master craftsman and indeed  this web site   All he was doing was cutting them out and attaching a buckle…and that’s it.

And that deserves the title of ' craftsman ' ? 

I appreciate that when you’re making large volumes of belts it may not always be possible  to bevel , burnish etc.  each & every one. 

But forgive me if I sound like I'm just having a whinge or blowing smoke, but I also feel like I'm protecting the integrity of the craft. 

18 hours ago, Hildebrand said:

If this individual is putting out sub par work and using the title "craftsman" generally the problem will take care of itself as he will run out of customers for sub par work.  If you are concerned he may be taking your customers just based on title I suspect if he is that will be short lived if his product is subpar, word will spread quickly.

You hit the nail on the head. Thats pretty much what my Mum said .  

Thank you all so much for your input  

HS 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Handstitched

[chuck123wapati]

Calling yourself a craftsman is easy, its when others call you a craftsman that is the defining moment I think.