belt Belt extension

[RezzieMia]

Hello all,

I have a customer that dropped a belt off for me to extend 6-8". The question is, he doesn't want it to bulky. Is it best to do a straight cut and skive the ends of the belt and extension pieces to glue together? The belt is pretty plain and has no stitching or tooling.

Also, is there a good method to try and match the dye? The belt is old and has some scuffs and scrapes on it. (He doesn't mind that it'll have a new piece inserted, I just want it to match dye)

Thank you,

Aspen.

Whispering Sage Leather

[fredk]

I would, and have, extended a belt by cutting back the hole end to leave about 3 holes. Skive the belt and the new piece. Glue to each other and use the holes for ready rivets [which I used] or for Chicago screws, on the other end of the belt, the same distance from the buckle as the new join would lie I put in three matching rivets; to make a feature rather than a visible 'repair'. I did the joining end of the new piece in a blunted V and it was fitted about 1 inch beyond the last [or first] hole in the old belt

2. scrub the old leather with dye prep and or cellulose thinners. Apply dye to the new piece to start bringing it up to the look of the washed belt, then start to dye both together. This should get the new piece looking close to the old belt

[chrisash]

Just tell the truth, it will never look very nice and for the labour costs he could have 90% of a new belt made of better leather, some things are just not economical to do

[fredk]

aye, it may cost less to make a complete new belt but there are times that, for whatever reason, we will pay more for something to be refurbished or rebuilt

[Dwight]

Some time back, I had to make a double layer belt but for the outside layer, . . . I had to splice it (he was a BIG guy).

Over the splice . . . I put a thin piece (3 oz??) and stamped his name in it.  

He was totally thrilled, . . . never guessed the reason for the "patch".

You could do something similar, . . . a 6 inch long "patch" on the outside of a 3 inch extension piece.   I did my splice dead in the middle of the back so his name is visible as he walks away.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited August 22, 2019 by Dwight

[zuludog]

I'm with CHRISASH on this one. By the time you've messed about cutting, skiving, sewing, dyeing and all the rest of it you might just as well make a new belt. Plus a modified belt would probably not be as neat or as good as a new one

However if you still want to lengthen it here's my suggestion, though I haven't done this myself -

Unpick the stitching to remove the buckle. Cut off that end of the belt including the slot, then -

EITHER  Add  a new piece of leather to lengthen the belt as required, and fit the buckle to that new end.  Use the existing stitching holes to sew on the new piece, and skive then both to produce a flat join. Fit the buckle as usual

OR   Cut the buckle & slot off as above. Then get a new piece of leather to be sewn on the front of the existing belt to extend it; make the slot, fit the buckle, and fold it back to the back of the belt. Skive & sew the three thicknesses of leather at the old stitching holes - new at front, old in middle, new at back

Clean the leather & dye it all; a darker dye will produce a more even result

When it's being worn most of this patching will be hidden by the tail of the existing belt

Like I said, unless your friend/customer insists, I reckon it would be easier and better to make a new belt. But you could re-use the existing buckle, and perhaps use a the old belt to make a couple of keepers, as a token geature

Incidentally, I have recently subscribed to Nigel Armitage's Vimeo Channel; it's excellent, and only about the price of a pint per month. There are about 50+ videos, including a complete series on making a belt, with more to come

[TomG]

5 hours ago, Dwight said:

Some time back, I had to make a double layer belt but for the outside layer, . . . I had to splice it (he was a BIG guy).

Over the splice . . . I put a thin piece (3 oz??) and stamped his name in it.  

He was totally thrilled, . . . never guessed the reason for the "patch".

You could do something similar, . . . a 6 inch long "patch" on the outside of a 3 inch extension piece.   I did my splice dead in the middle of the back so his name is visible as he walks away.

May God bless,

Dwight

When you skive and glue together, do you sew the join as well?

I've done this to make longer dog leashes and always have to sew a couple of lines at the edges

Not sure if I'd have to for belts though

[chrisash]

Put it another way

You do the job and get your labour rate

He gets a repaired belt and tells his friends you do repair work, They look at the repair and think its not very good so downgrade what they think of your quality and don't buy from you  and tell their friends the same (nobody ever mentions you did it as a favor knowing it would not be perfect),

Or they dig into their pile of rubbish in the garage and dig out a load of old tack for you to repair

You end up not working on things that make a nice profit that you enjoy and don't charge the full amount as it seems to much for repair work

 

[Dwight]

8 hours ago, TomG said:

When you skive and glue together, do you sew the join as well?

I've done this to make longer dog leashes and always have to sew a couple of lines at the edges

Not sure if I'd have to for belts though

This is a rough drawing of what I did.  

The bottom layer is the inside layer of the belt, . . . the middle layer as you can see is butt joined in the center, . . . and the patch with the name is what covered up the obvious butt joints.

I did this only because I did not have a long enough piece of leather for his belt on the finish side.  I would use this same process to extend a belt, . . . cutting the top layer, . . . then the bottom layer maybe an inch apart, . . . and staggering pieces between them to lengthen the belt, . . . and cover it all with a top patch.

The belt was of course sewn from end to end as I do all my double layer belts, . . . the patch was sewn around the inside of the patch, . . . 

He loved it.  I see him occasionally, . . . and he still wears it.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Dwight

[fredk]

8 hours ago, chrisash said:

. . .

He gets a repaired belt and tells his friends you do repair work, They look at the repair and think its not very good so downgrade what they think of your quality and don't buy from you  and tell their friends the same (nobody ever mentions you did it as a favor knowing it would not be perfect),

Or they dig into their pile of rubbish in the garage and dig out a load of old tack for you to repair

thats one negative look at it. . . . however, in my experience, there are not enough leather workers, or just workers who are willing to do repairs.

When I was involved in Historical Presentation I did a lot of repairs on kit. Even though I "don't do"  shoes or horse tack re-enactor types from all over the island of Ireland would search me out to get repairs done to everything including shoes and some horse tack. Prior to me taking on repairs there was no-one willing to do it so expensive kit was trashed just because some stitching had ripped out/worn away. I charged by the hour rate plus materials. The folk were happy. I once sat at a show and did some repairs on a pair of riding boots. About 1.5 hours work, charge was about £20, guy was happy cos a new pair of boots would have been about £250 and until I did the repair the boots were unwearable. The chap said that no-one in Ireland or the UK would even consider the repair and some even told him the boots weren't repairable'

Another; a woman picked up a nice handbag at a car-boot sale. She said it cost about £2 - because a lot of the stitching was parting. She asked me to fix it. I told her my rates. It cost her about £45 in my fees, but she was happy as that bag was a 'named' one worth about £500 in decent nick.

I'll stop with examples

Point is, I believe doing repairs, good repairs is part of our craft. It should be a skill to offer to customers

[JazzBass]

Wow -  methods and business positions related to repairs, all in one thread, all of them valid!

It seems that we should simply draw a distinction between "repair" and "restoration/conservation". I consider repair to be maintenance for continued use. In this case, @chrisash is of course, correct - it's a completely economic decision that determines whether to repair or replace.

Ah...but then, there's restoration/conservation. Here, @fredk and others have it right. It takes magnificent skills and a labor of love to do this well. Where restoration/conservation is concerned, it's going to be a situation where someone is ready and willing to pay more than the cost of a new item.

I think I'll be willing to do the former, in the hopes of gaining the skills to do the latter.

 

[seabee]

Hi everyone, 

I just ran across this thread,  and would add $.02.  I do leather as a hobby, but I help anyone that I can.  A friend of has horses (hay Burners).  He asked me if could repair a one horse buggy harness for him for a show a the local rodeo.  Thats a lot of leather, and we marked all areas to be repaired.  Cutting this short, I now get calls for tack repairs from local and out of town people.  They can't find leatherworkers to do repairs.  They don't want new leather.  You can tell, I know nothing about horses,   I just fix the problem.  Their happy and I'am glad to help.

Howard

PS,  Tack repair is very different

[Rockoboy]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 8:10 AM, seabee said:

PS,  Tack repair is very different

It has been said hereabouts on more than one occasion, that doing tack repairs is a no-no! If a repair fails for any reason (including abuse by the customer), the fault and possible subsequent law suit will fall on the repairer until he can prove "no fault".

Be very careful doing repairs to possibly old, dried and/or damaged leather.

[Handstitched]

Well, this thread was just about extending a belt, but its turned into something else. 

So, about the belts. I usually extend the belt at the buckle end. However, the other type of extension I have done,  at the clients request , is, cut the belt in the middle, but make the extension look like its part of the belt and make it look like it was meant to be there.  Another way of doing it, is based on a similar principal to a hobble belt or a stockman belt.  I do make 3 piece belts . A  buckle end , a middle piece, and  billet end. Have a look at the belt on the left as an example.  This way I use up lengthy off-cuts of belt leather , apart from making your creative mind work a little harder    Just a thought. 

Now, onto the repairs. I have often done repairs & alterations to tack( as well as horse rug repairs) , as there are horse & pony clubs in my town,  and many horse owners. I am also the only leather worker around that can do it.. But I also know, from experience,  if a particular piece of tack is too far gone and beyond repair and needs to be replaced, as it won't pass ' gear check' at the clubs......and it will fall back on me if it fails.....(and my reputation is in the toilet) . Hence the important  comment :

4 hours ago, Rockoboy said:

Be very careful doing repairs to possibly old, dried and/or damaged leather.

About 80% of my repairs are  replacing the girth straps on  saddles. The holes may  have torn through due to poor quality leather, poor maintenance,  or they are cheap  PVC . The rest are alterations &  minor repairs  to bridles, halters that are too long etc.  Or the thread has simply worn through and needs to be re-stitched.  But sewing old & dried leather on tack  is a definite no no . And besides, the thread simply 'cuts' through the old leather. 

On 8/23/2019 at 7:59 AM, fredk said:

Point is, I believe doing repairs, good repairs is part of our craft. It should be a skill to offer to customers

 I agree, but we should also know the  limits of our experience . Don't take on more than our experiences allow.  Or simply put, ' don't  bite off more than you can chew' . 

@Rockoboy I never make breast plates for pig dogs for obvious  legal reasons. 

HS

[Rockoboy]

17 hours ago, Handstitched said:

@Rockoboy I never make breast plates for pig dogs for obvious  legal reasons. 

Is that because the dogs don't like them as accessories with their collars?

[Handstitched]

@RockoboyDogs are very ' fashion conscious' these days,  with their  ' chai lattes' ,  " does this breast plate make my bum look big?"   

 

This is waaaaay off topic:  At the markets, I once saw a small  dog dressed like a ballerina with bows on its head, and being pushed in a fancy pram covered in lace,  by some....' hi class/maintenance  lady '  in some really flash clothes . Fair dinkum!!!  Needless to say, that made our day, had us in stitches     

we get to see the nicest of people at the markets, .....but we  also see the silliest  

HS 

[Frodo]

Very interesting reading the different methods others on this extension 

I would cut and skive the middle of the belt. glue and sew in the extension

cut a strip to overlay the whole length .   glue/sew the strip to the belt.

i would not over lay the backside of the belt

 

[RezzieMia]

Thank you everyone for the input! The guy I did it for is an old, good family friend and liked the way this particular belt closed (not a buckle and hole, but a loop.) He used it mainly for working around the house and just needed it a little longer. I ended up cutting it towards the end where the tail would cover it. I found leather of the same length and cut it to size. I skived the ends and glued it to the old belt. I then sewed the skived parts together so they wouldn't peel apart. Leather work is just a hobby to me so I didn't charge him anything. I also oiled the belt and extension and re-beveled the edges to make it smooth.

I love the idea of the name plate over the added piece! Thank you.