Introduction, and a thousand questions about canvas and machines!

[Fognozzle]

Hi everyone, new member here from the Riverina in Australia. My confession: I have a bit of a man-bag habit 

I'm a reasonably experienced DIYer and hobbyist in woodworking and metalworking, and I've tinkered over the years with some really basic repairs and modifications of leather accessories and military style bags. I'm here because I've been wanting to up my leatherworking game for years, but I've never really found the time. That's changed now, and I'm currently incubating a number of bag ideas in heavy waxed canvas with leather fittings.

I'm really not sure where to start though, so I was hoping I could blurt out my stream of noobie questions and see if some kind soul might take pity on me and give me some guidance!

I don't foresee any need to machine-sew leather, I will hand stitch all my fittings, but the main body of the bags will be heavy canvas. I have no idea whether hand stitching a canvas bag is realistic for a noob, but I feel like the canvas probably ought to be machine sewn? A well-known maker of similar bags uses 24oz canvas, I'm not sure yet what I can source but if I could find that weight I'd like to use it.

So I'm leaning towards getting some (presumably unwaxed) canvas, and pinning together a prototype bag to dial in some dimensions. But I don't know what I can reasonably sew on my partner's domestic machine. Could I perhaps hem the exposed edges of individual pieces myself on a domestic machine, then hand stitch the final assembly? Or take the component parts to my local saddler/cobbler for him to assemble on his machine?

Alternatively, might I find a used machine out there for a reasonable cost that will meet my needs? If so, what cost, and what should I be looking for?

Finally, any tips on finding and choosing my canvas? I'm assuming it will be easier to buy (and work) dry canvas, then wax the finished bag - am I right?

[Spyros]

Pretty disappointed this isn't getting responded to, I had similar questions about waxed canvas....

Anyone?

[Alexis1234]

My domestic sewing machine struggled sewing 9 oz canvas bags( folded hems,etc).I wasn't impressed with the stitch quality and you have to use lighter weight threads. I bought a used Phaff 145 H-3 for $225.00 last fall and it works well, just wish it was a cylinder arm.

[chrisash]

I did a canvas and leather tote bag using both domestic machine and Singer 29K53 using 138 thread, no real problems and most of the work done whilst still flat and then finished inside out, largest problem was sewing the top leather edge used this canvas

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Waterproof-Outdoor-Material-Upholstery-delivery/dp/B07RWKK868/ref=sr_1_37?adgrpid=54678997393&dchild=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4L-chJrI6QIVjcDACh3R1Ac2EAMYASAAEgLVg_D_BwE&hvadid=259120338605&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9044854&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=18179408365296493286&hvtargid=kwd-331710641164&hydadcr=18510_1816616&keywords=waterproof+canvas&qid=1590175753&sr=8-37 

[Spyros]

Thanks guys

So for stitching leather to canvas, my best option is probably hand stitch it, but make holes only to the leather and just push the needle through the canvas?

[Northmount]

Also look through this thread

Even though is is based on sewing leather, you'll find lots of good information here that will help with both leather and canvas. 

If you do a search, you can find other threads here about sewing canvas.

Tom

 

 

[dirkba]

On 4/24/2020 at 7:35 AM, Fognozzle said:

Hi everyone, new member here from the Riverina in Australia. My confession: I have a bit of a man-bag habit 

I'm a reasonably experienced DIYer and hobbyist in woodworking and metalworking, and I've tinkered over the years with some really basic repairs and modifications of leather accessories and military style bags. I'm here because I've been wanting to up my leatherworking game for years, but I've never really found the time. That's changed now, and I'm currently incubating a number of bag ideas in heavy waxed canvas with leather fittings.

I'm really not sure where to start though, so I was hoping I could blurt out my stream of noobie questions and see if some kind soul might take pity on me and give me some guidance!

I don't foresee any need to machine-sew leather, I will hand stitch all my fittings, but the main body of the bags will be heavy canvas. I have no idea whether hand stitching a canvas bag is realistic for a noob, but I feel like the canvas probably ought to be machine sewn? A well-known maker of similar bags uses 24oz canvas, I'm not sure yet what I can source but if I could find that weight I'd like to use it.

So I'm leaning towards getting some (presumably unwaxed) canvas, and pinning together a prototype bag to dial in some dimensions. But I don't know what I can reasonably sew on my partner's domestic machine. Could I perhaps hem the exposed edges of individual pieces myself on a domestic machine, then hand stitch the final assembly? Or take the component parts to my local saddler/cobbler for him to assemble on his machine?

Alternatively, might I find a used machine out there for a reasonable cost that will meet my needs? If so, what cost, and what should I be looking for?

Finally, any tips on finding and choosing my canvas? I'm assuming it will be easier to buy (and work) dry canvas, then wax the finished bag - am I right?

Hi Fognozzle,

I am only responding since I see there is a reluctance to reply...maybe because sewing canvas and leather by hand is a challenging task which few would like to take on!

I use a cylinder arm to stitch, but I am sure a straight sewing machine should also do the trick. 

Your reference to military style bags is right up my alley - I have started to re-purpose military bags by adding leather and reshaping it a bit.

I have to caution that since I have done these projects the airlines in South Africa has started refusing round travel bags or bags with lengthy shoulder straps.

 

 

 

[$$hobby]

On 4/23/2020 at 10:35 PM, Fognozzle said:

I don't foresee any need to machine-sew leather, I will hand stitch all my fittings, but the main body of the bags will be heavy canvas. I have no idea whether hand stitching a canvas bag is realistic for a noob, but I feel like the canvas probably ought to be machine sewn? A well-known maker of similar bags uses 24oz canvas, I'm not sure yet what I can source but if I could find that weight I'd like to use it.

You can do what you want when it comes down to it.  But consider what will work in the end.  
The word you use is "Prototype".   

YOu wont know until you make 1 or many "Prototypes" if what you think you want to do will work.  From where i sit, it appears it will.   But you could also machine sew your fittings on the canvas too.

I made a briefcase type bag using Cordura 1000?   But i hand sewed a leather bottom (where it would get wear) onto the cordura.  I was interesting but a pain, since you more or less have to insert the inside needle blindly into the hole.  Eventually you will get a "feel" for it and learn to leave the awl in and use that as your guide for the needle.  but you may also stick yourself a couple or many times too.

If you can apply your "fittings" before assembly, that may make it easier in the long run, but you will need to figrue that out.

 

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So I'm leaning towards getting some (presumably unwaxed) canvas, and pinning together a prototype bag to dial in some dimensions. But I don't know what I can reasonably sew on my partner's domestic machine. Could I perhaps hem the exposed edges of individual pieces myself on a domestic machine, then hand stitch the final assembly? Or take the component parts to my local saddler/cobbler for him to assemble on his machine?

Again, you can do what you want.  But a question to ask.  IS this a 1 off type of bag or 1 of many.  If this is a 1 of many, then you may want to consider your TIME it will take to make many by hand.  

Some other thing to do upfront is to make a pattern.  YOU may want to find some rolls of butcher paper, or wrapping paper.  Find some large sheets/rolls of cheap (thickish) paper and make patterns.  If you have a builders square and need square corners use the right tool.  

If you have access to autocad/cad programs you can also make your patterens digitally.  Whats nice about that is that you can change dimensions and just print a new patter.  

but by having a pattern, you can replicate that bag over and over.  Also dont be afraid to make notes/write on the patter.  Such as if you want it larger/smaller, make notes of that on what edge or edges.  YOu can also make not if you use a zipper/button and its location.  YOU can number edges/cordners on how it was assembled too or maybe to "hand" sew the "fittings" here and there 1st.

I would get some of the materail and run it through your partners machine.  Or if your partner knows anything about that machine ask or show them the material.

Note that depending on what and how you make the bag, you may have maybe 2-3 pieces or more to sew togeather.  the corners will be the hardest part unless  your bag doesnt have a corner.

 

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Alternatively, might I find a used machine out there for a reasonable cost that will meet my needs? If so, what cost, and what should I be looking for?

what is "reasonable?"   everyones wallet is a different shape/size and capacity. 

If you can get your hands on the material, the see if your partners machine will handle what you want to make.  Then make a decision if you want/need to buy..  but dont fall into the binocular vision persons trap.  Consider what you may want to make in the future as in bag shape/size and other things.

If you need a machine, take your sample material out to any shops in your area and see what they have that may sew what you want.  Also, bring some "fittings" too just in case they may have a machine that will do it all (at that moment) and the price may not be that different.

You may also want to look at a machine that has a "reverse".  many people wont touch one without.  Also, maybe zigzag.  Have you looked/considered how you will finish the cut edges.   Canvas can/will unravel.

Also, consider the size of the thread you will want to use.

 

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Finally, any tips on finding and choosing my canvas? I'm assuming it will be easier to buy (and work) dry canvas, then wax the finished bag - am I right?

I think where im from they call it "waxed" or "tined" gear.   

I personally have not used the stuff, but im aware of the gear made with it.  So as far as working with "dry", im my opinion, it maybe easier to deal with it dry so it wont muck up your  or your partners machine.  

 

some comments/thoughts....

 > you may need to make/assemble this bag inside out.  Then once assembled, flip it to the correct side out.  but this will depend on how you plan to design/assemble it.  

 > if you have any mfg made bags, see how its made.  If you can, flip it inside out and see if thats how they assembled it.

 > what you have going for you is that chances are its been made already.  So all you need to do is to put your thnking cap on and do some reverse engineering/thinking.  You can look at your shirt/pants too and see how its made.  Examples are all around you too.

 > Will the bag have a liner?  If so, this can add 1 layer of complexity.  

 

 

good luck

 

 

 

[Matt S]

There's a lot of good information above but I'll try to add few useful nuggets.

We don't know what domestic machine your partner has -- they vary considerably in capabilities and thus suitability. I made a cheap domestic explode in a pile of plastic some years ago by sewing two layers of blanket together. Conversely I've sewn some surprisingly heavy things with others, though nothing as heavy as multiple layers of 24oz canvas. The one thing that they have in common is that they are really not suited to sewing heavier items with any frequency or at any speed.

As to hemming, sure if you can fold, hold and stitch that weight of canvas you could hem it. Many more modern domestics have an ability to do an overseaming stitch that approximates overlocking/serging but it's not pretty and it is glacially slow. Sometimes you can add a binding attachment to run binding tape along the raw edge, which is a very neat finish if done well but again I have no idea how such a thing would react to heavy canvas. You can also seal the cut edges with a special glue which resists fraying, or just trim them with pinking shears which again resists fraying I believe (that's what my grandma told me, never used them myself). Neither of these last two would be a finish I would want to put on a "done" bag but would be fine for a prototype, a practice piece, an intermediate step before proper finishing or a bag for your own use.

Sewing canvas by hand is perfectly feasible. Just think about the number of bags, sails, sacks, buckets and protective clothing that were made and repaired before the sewing machine became popular. A sewing palm and a pack of decent canvas needles will set you back about £20 (not sure how many dollarydoos but I can't imagine it being hideously expensive). There's plenty of decent books and online resources about historical methods of sewing heavy canvas and leather in a nautical setting (a lot of them really quite fun). Alternatively you could get one of those autoawl things, which are used to make a lockstitch in the style of a sewing machine but entirely manually.