Do you moisten your leather before dying with Pro Dye?

[Jenn64]

Hi everyone,

I've been lurking around here for years & never posted. I have a question about dying...do you moisten your leather before dying with pro dye, I'm not knew to dying but I've never moistened the leather first, I usually just dry dye...so do you recommend wet dying?

[YinTx]

I tried damp leather with regular dye in the past, came out really light colored, didn't really help imo.  Dont' see where there would be an advantage for it with the pro dye either, but the easiest way to find out is to do a test sample and see if it suits your technique.

YinTx

[Tugadude]

You'll get different opinions on this.  My bottom line is this, if what you are doing is working, don't change anything!  But if it isn't, then experiment until you find something that works for you.

I've been in the construction chemicals business for more than 30 years, and in that time I've seen all sorts of different techniques that contractors use in order to get the best result.  And sometimes they seemingly conflict with what others are doing.  But it works FOR THEM.  And that's all they are worried about, right?

I don't pre-wet my leather with anything before dying.  I'm of the belief that if you want the dye to penetrate deeply into the leather, then it is best for the leather to be dry and thirsty.  The leather absorbs the dye like a sponge when it is dry.  If the leather is already "wet", then you can only get so much dye into the product.  It ceases to be sucked down into the leather if the leather is already wet.  That's my thinking on the subject.

Others will say they they always pre-wet their leather and get great results.  And that's great!  I don't and I also get great results.  Still others use air brushes and some dip-dye.  Use whatever method works for you.  And you'll only find out by trying for yourself.

[JayEhl]

@Jenn64   Whatever you end up doing, you should report back here what you did and how it worked for you and show your work.  That way everyone can benefit!  

[Jenn64]

On 7/19/2021 at 1:04 PM, YinTx said:

I tried damp leather with regular dye in the past, came out really light colored, didn't really help imo.  Dont' see where there would be an advantage for it with the pro dye either, but the easiest way to find out is to do a test sample and see if it suits your technique.

YinTx

Thanks for your reply Yin Tx, so I've done a little experimentation & there didn't seem to be any difference in colour just longer drying time, so you're absolutely right there's no notable advantage.

[Jenn64]

On 7/19/2021 at 10:11 PM, Tugadude said:

You'll get different opinions on this.  My bottom line is this, if what you are doing is working, don't change anything!  But if it isn't, then experiment until you find something that works for you.

I've been in the construction chemicals business for more than 30 years, and in that time I've seen all sorts of different techniques that contractors use in order to get the best result.  And sometimes they seemingly conflict with what others are doing.  But it works FOR THEM.  And that's all they are worried about, right?

I don't pre-wet my leather with anything before dying.  I'm of the belief that if you want the dye to penetrate deeply into the leather, then it is best for the leather to be dry and thirsty.  The leather absorbs the dye like a sponge when it is dry.  If the leather is already "wet", then you can only get so much dye into the product.  It ceases to be sucked down into the leather if the leather is already wet.  That's my thinking on the subject.

Others will say they they always pre-wet their leather and get great results.  And that's great!  I don't and I also get great results.  Still others use air brushes and some dip-dye.  Use whatever method works for you.  And you'll only find out by trying for yourself.

Yep, I'll just keep on keeping on with my normal process which is using a dense damp sponge on dry leather, sometimes I 50/50, sometimes I don't, I use the air brush for certain effects, although I do smear on an ever so light coat of neatsfoot before dying anything which I find gives me a more uniformed dye job.

I also experimented with dip dying a larger project (usually only use this process on small pieces) & nahhh not happy with the outcome, the edges dye deeper in colour & the leather also grabed extra dye in random places. 

So I'm happy with my usual process....I ain't fixing what ain't broke! 

But I am a curious cat & love learning others process's. 

[Jenn64]

On 7/20/2021 at 5:36 AM, JayEhl said:

@Jenn64   Whatever you end up doing, you should report back here what you did and how it worked for you and show your work.  That way everyone can benefit!  

Thanks for the heads up & had fully intented too & have but haven't posted pic's....so what's your dying process out of curiosity?

[Tugadude]

3 hours ago, Jenn64 said:

Thanks for the heads up & had fully intented too & have but haven't posted pic's....so what's your dying process out of curiosity?

My process depends on the thickness of leather I'm dying.  With thinner stuff, if I can, I dip-dye it.  The dye goes all the way through readily.  I then lay it on a clean piece of cardboard and I rub the surface gently, blotting it really, to remove any excess and then I let it dry.  If it is overly stiff, I will use either Carnauba Cream or Neatsfoot Oil to soften it.  I like the results I get.

On thicker stuff I apply dye in two directions.  I go "east to west" on the first pass and then "north to south" on the second.  I then will usually add a bit more and do it in a circular fashion.  That eliminates any chance of streaking.  It may sound like a lengthy process, but I'm usually dying fairly small pieces at a time, maybe 2 feet square or so.  I apply the dye with a rag.  I've heard some say they get good results from an applicator, but I've never tried it.  

I have rarely dyed the backside on thick leather.  

[ScottWolf]

Where I have found doing this makes a difference is when you have a piece of leather or a leather item where there are sections/portions that are drier or dried out from age/use than the surrounding areas. Applying water to dampen (not soak) the entire piece/section before dying results in a more uniform dye job when it dries. As mentioned, it may result it a slightly lighter finish and take a little bit longer to dry but its nothing a second coat won't fix if you want it darker, but it ensures that the end product doesn't have spots/areas that are darker/lighter than the surrounding leather. 

[fredk]

Whatever type of dye I use I dampen the grain side of the leather before I dye and as I dye it

I reckon it helps the distribution of the dye thru the leather, giving me less patches of differing colour density.

Initially the dye colour might be light but I just apply more coats of dye to get an even depth of colour

[Jenn64]

On 7/22/2021 at 10:28 PM, Tugadude said:

My process depends on the thickness of leather I'm dying.  With thinner stuff, if I can, I dip-dye it.  The dye goes all the way through readily.  I then lay it on a clean piece of cardboard and I rub the surface gently, blotting it really, to remove any excess and then I let it dry.  If it is overly stiff, I will use either Carnauba Cream or Neatsfoot Oil to soften it.  I like the results I get.

On thicker stuff I apply dye in two directions.  I go "east to west" on the first pass and then "north to south" on the second.  I then will usually add a bit more and do it in a circular fashion.  That eliminates any chance of streaking.  It may sound like a lengthy process, but I'm usually dying fairly small pieces at a time, maybe 2 feet square or so.  I apply the dye with a rag.  I've heard some say they get good results from an applicator, but I've never tried it.  

I have rarely dyed the backside on thick leather.  

Arhh yes, the multi directions is a great anti-streak technique, glad you mentioned that, thanks! I never use daubers they are just too narrow & never happy with the end result, I'll stick with high density sponges & I love my air brush.

[Jenn64]

22 hours ago, ScottWolf said:

Where I have found doing this makes a difference is when you have a piece of leather or a leather item where there are sections/portions that are drier or dried out from age/use than the surrounding areas. Applying water to dampen (not soak) the entire piece/section before dying results in a more uniform dye job when it dries. As mentioned, it may result it a slightly lighter finish and take a little bit longer to dry but its nothing a second coat won't fix if you want it darker, but it ensures that the end product doesn't have spots/areas that are darker/lighter than the surrounding leather. 

That makes sense regarding dry area's, that's what possibly went wrong with the larger piece I dip dyed with the dye grabbing in certain area's....note to self....will moisten beforehand & see if I gain bettter results! Thank you

[Jenn64]

21 hours ago, fredk said:

Whatever type of dye I use I dampen the grain side of the leather before I dye and as I dye it

I reckon it helps the distribution of the dye thru the leather, giving me less patches of differing colour density.

Initially the dye colour might be light but I just apply more coats of dye to get an even depth of colour

Yeah that's true, that's what I do with the neatsfoot for even colour, it can also lighten a little but not much & like you will just recoat...thanks fredk

[Silverd]

Pro dye is an alcohol / oil base liquid.  So, I'm not sure how using water to help the dye migrate through the grain of the leather is a good solution...but if it works!.   Alcohol is water compatible however, the oil is not and the oil is the carrier of the Dye.    

I've have used either nothing or Goof Proof in the past but recently started applying saddle oil to the grain surface before dying using pro dye (which I typically spray on).   Both the oil and the Goof Proof serve to prepare the leather to receive the Dye and even out the absorption. I would also say the process reduces how dark the results will be.   This can be helpful for dyes that tend to go dark...like Dark Brown or Mahagony.  The spray process is very controllable and allows me to create various finish values using the same dye and on the same piece.  Darker along the edges provides an element of Faux patina that suggests the product has aged.   I will spray adjacent panels at the same time as they appear in the final assembly.  This allows me to carry the faux shading across both pieces which really looks nice in the final product.   For those thinking this is a lot of work given the gun cleaning etc...I typically leave dye in a gun for several weeks before it will need flushing with Acetone and possibly tear down.  I usually have at least two guns running different shades to support multiple projects simultaneously.   I also spray water base contact cement that I use to laminate.   Love the spray gun!    

Black Dye is difficult to keep from cross contaminating

Red Dye is the easiest to work with and to keep uniform

Blue Dye will turn Purple if applied too well

Light brown base with dark brown edging can make a new piece look very aged

Hope this helps!

Silverd

[Northmount]

If you are dying details and you find the dye wicks quickly beyond the line or cut, I find it helps to moisten the leather a little so it doesn't wick so quickly beyond where you want the edge to be.

Large items I will dip dye if it fits my container or I can pass it through like a belt for example.  I don't bother moistening before hand in cases like that, or when dying something that won't fit.  A little oil after helps even out the colour.

 

[Jenn64]

On 9/9/2021 at 9:30 AM, Silverd said:

Pro dye is an alcohol / oil base liquid.  So, I'm not sure how using water to help the dye migrate through the grain of the leather is a good solution...but if it works!.   Alcohol is water compatible however, the oil is not and the oil is the carrier of the Dye.    

I've have used either nothing or Goof Proof in the past but recently started applying saddle oil to the grain surface before dying using pro dye (which I typically spray on).   Both the oil and the Goof Proof serve to prepare the leather to receive the Dye and even out the absorption. I would also say the process reduces how dark the results will be.   This can be helpful for dyes that tend to go dark...like Dark Brown or Mahagony.  The spray process is very controllable and allows me to create various finish values using the same dye and on the same piece.  Darker along the edges provides an element of Faux patina that suggests the product has aged.   I will spray adjacent panels at the same time as they appear in the final assembly.  This allows me to carry the faux shading across both pieces which really looks nice in the final product.   For those thinking this is a lot of work given the gun cleaning etc...I typically leave dye in a gun for several weeks before it will need flushing with Acetone and possibly tear down.  I usually have at least two guns running different shades to support multiple projects simultaneously.   I also spray water base contact cement that I use to laminate.   Love the spray gun!    

Black Dye is difficult to keep from cross contaminating

Red Dye is the easiest to work with and to keep uniform

Blue Dye will turn Purple if applied too well

Light brown base with dark brown edging can make a new piece look very aged

Hope this helps!

Silverd

Wow Silverd thank you so much for your detailed reply, I haven't checked in for a month or more, hence late acknowledgment

I've never heard of Goof Proof, just looked that up & can't seem to access it in Australia, maybe why I'm oblivious to it, but if I could get my hands on it without paying exorbitant international freight expenses I'd grab some in a flash...but don't like my chances!

Yeah I'll be steering clear of the wet dying unless as mentioned the leather is extra dry or maybe I won't even do that as I find smearing a little neatsfoot also tends to rememdy that problem...nice to know if I run short of neatsfoot I can fall back on saddle oil.

Yeah I love my air brush too, it just offers so much more control, I recently made a "facehugger" mask using the same technique for edges, turned out great, I may have a pic of or two of that! Thanks for colour tips too much appreciated.

Yep you definitely helped!

Jenn

PS Check out the pics...excuse the different colour outcomes between both pics, one is under lights the other in daylight.

[Jenn64]

On 9/9/2021 at 12:42 PM, Northmount said:

If you are dying details and you find the dye wicks quickly beyond the line or cut, I find it helps to moisten the leather a little so it doesn't wick so quickly beyond where you want the edge to be.

Large items I will dip dye if it fits my container or I can pass it through like a belt for example.  I don't bother moistening before hand in cases like that, or when dying something that won't fit.  A little oil after helps even out the colour.

 

Thanks for the anti wicking tip Northmount, I'll remember that as I'm overly cautious dying details, absolutely hate watching it wick while I sit there saying "Stop, stop, stop"....it doesn't seem to listen & keeps flowing on it's merry way....then I swear, lol!

I've not had great success dip dying large items so I'm steering clear, belts & small items I'm fine with but anything large I'm just awkward & uncordinated & stuff it up.

Jenn

[PastorBob]

52 minutes ago, Jenn64 said:

Wow Silverd thank you so much for your detailed reply, I haven't checked in for a month or more, hence late acknowledgment

I've never heard of Goof Proof, just looked that up & can't seem to access it in Australia, maybe why I'm oblivious to it, but if I could get my hands on it without paying exorbitant international freight expenses I'd grab some in a flash...but don't like my chances!

Yeah I'll be steering clear of the wet dying unless as mentioned the leather is extra dry or maybe I won't even do that as I find smearing a little neatsfoot also tends to rememdy that problem...nice to know if I run short of neatsfoot I can fall back on saddle oil.

Yeah I love my air brush too, it just offers so much more control, I recently made a "facehugger" mask using the same technique for edges, turned out great, I may have a pic of or two of that! Thanks for colour tips too much appreciated.

Yep you definitely helped!

Jenn

PS Check out the pics...excuse the different colour outcomes between both pics, one is under lights the other in daylight.

Nice work.  Very clean, and I like the dye job on it.  

[Cumberland Highpower]

So many replies I feel like maybe I learned something here also.

I dye quite allot, but always submersion dye in a 5gal bucket...Something different I guess.   
Often fully finished goods, stitched and all if the thread is brown or black.   

I found that a quality leather dyes much better.  Herman Oak, Wickett, etc.  They don't just dye better, they dry quicker and the color is more consistent.

[Silverd]

On 9/23/2021 at 8:34 AM, Jenn64 said:

Wow Silverd thank you so much for your detailed reply, I haven't checked in for a month or more, hence late acknowledgment

I've never heard of Goof Proof, just looked that up & can't seem to access it in Australia, maybe why I'm oblivious to it, but if I could get my hands on it without paying exorbitant international freight expenses I'd grab some in a flash...but don't like my chances!

Yeah I'll be steering clear of the wet dying unless as mentioned the leather is extra dry or maybe I won't even do that as I find smearing a little neatsfoot also tends to rememdy that problem...nice to know if I run short of neatsfoot I can fall back on saddle oil.

Yeah I love my air brush too, it just offers so much more control, I recently made a "facehugger" mask using the same technique for edges, turned out great, I may have a pic of or two of that! Thanks for colour tips too much appreciated.

Yep you definitely helped!

Jenn

PS Check out the pics...excuse the different colour outcomes between both pics, one is under lights the other in daylight.

My gosh man,  absolutely beautiful work.  

Silverd

[Spyros]

Every single leather I've tried behaves differently, so I've completely stopped creating rules in my mind like "In veg tan do this, in combination tan do that"... Every time I get some leather that is new to me I always have to do a series of tests that include dying, burnishing, glueing and finishing, otherwise I really don't know what's gonna happen.

In most cases I don't wet the leather, but I use a mix of fiebings pro with neatsfoot oil, I find I get better consistency and I can generally better control the colour and the process like that.  Plus it's (usually) good for the leather to get some NFO in it.  However, I once dyed the flesh side of a nice english bridle panel with this mix, I got careless and put a bit too much on by mistake, and it seeped right through and destroyed the colour on the other side.  That was one expensive piece of leather in the rubbish 

So.  Testing, testing, testing. 

[Silverd]

With Saddle or neadsfoot oil.

 

Silver

[FGBR]

That facehugger is awesome. Well done.  

[Silverd]

On 11/26/2021 at 5:41 PM, Silverd said:

With Saddle or neadsfoot oil.

 

Silver

I'm not sure it matters.  I use them both, the saddle oil may not darken as much but only slightly.   The objective is to use the oil as a carrier for the dye to obtain slightly deeper penetration into the leather than the dye on its own would go.  Some dyes,  when applied in sufficient quatity will go too dark for my liking.  When I spray apply light coatings, the dye will sometimes sit on the surface. When the final product is say "scratched" by the user, the natural color underneath is exposed.  The deeper the penetration the better.  This is the down side of using natural vegtan instead of aniline leather.  I think if water base dye were used, dampening the leather first with water would have the same effect...but I rarely use water base dyes...mabey I should!  And, every leather is unique so it's impossible to adopt only one process.  Another consideration is the color of the dye.  For instance RED PRO dye can be applied quite heavily without it going dark and therefore does not require pretreatment. Love that.  But BLUE PRO dye will turn almost black if applied heavy.

Lots of fun!  

 

Silverd