Trox

Hi Mia, here is how I do it. You need three parameters: 1, The needle height: How high the needle bar should be over the needle plate when it is in its highest position or vice versa as in this manual. 2, Then the needle rise: when the needle bar has past its lowest position (bottom dead center) and raised with X mm (X= 2,4 mm or 3/32 " on this machine, I peeped in the manual) 3, Then the hook timing position: the tip of the shuttle hook should be 1,6 mm (1/16 ") over the needle eye in the center of the needle. Before you start with the timing adjustments make sure the feed dog is in the middle of the needle plate (side-wise; equal space on both sides of it), if not make the necessary adjustments. Insert a new needle (right size needle, the one you use the most), I see the maximum needle size is Singer 22 (Nm 140), I use this for thread size TKT 20 (TEX 135) Make sure the needle hits in the center of the feed dogs needle hole, if not make your adjustments according to the manual. Check the feed timing; the needle and the feeding foot should hit the feed dog at the simultaneously. And in the same moment as the feed-dog is coming up from the needle plate. If not make your adjustments. Then back to point 1: Remove the needle plate and insert a new needle (right size as you have already done), set the stitch length to zero. Then you must do some calculating because two things are not as they appear in the manual. First; the different needle system, who maybe is longer than the original? The second problem is invisible timing marks on the needle bar. You must measure the length of the needle-bar with a caliper, wipe the needle bar dry and make some ink marks if it helps you. If the timing needs to be adjusted: You know where the timing marks on the needle bar should be; 50,8 mm from the lowest point of the needle-bar (that is the same as the right needle height). Then measure the difference between the original and the new needle systems length. The new system is a bit longer, draw this difference (X mm) from 50,8 mm. and you have the right needle-bar upper mark. (X= the length difference between the new and the original needle in mm). 50,8 minus X = is the length of the needle bar when it is in b.d.c (in its lowest position). (Normally this should be 50,8 mm, but with a longer needle, it has to be less. You can always put the original system back in and use 50,8 mm, however just compensate for the longer needle and push the needle bar up X mm). Then rotate the hand-wheel until it raises 2,4 mm up from b.d.c, loosen the screws in the hook gear hub (as in the manual) and turn the hook until it is in the correct position. (Middle of the needle, 1,6 mm over the eye) Then tighten the screws. Then you can proceed to the Hook needle distance ; move the hook as close as possible to the needle without hitting it when it is in the above position (as described in the manual). (The hook tip is now in the needle charf) 　 Why go to all this trouble and not only adjust it by the needle bar. Two things may have happened to your machine that knocked it out of timing. Either the needle-bar has moved or the hook gear on the hook shaft has, you do not know yet. If hook gear has moved and you adjust it with the needle bar, the feed timing will be wrong. And the other way around, if the needle bar has moved and you adjust it with the hook gear you will have the same result, wrong feed timing. Wrong timing of bobbin case opener and so on. Thread and needles may brake or other kinds of errors happen. http://parts.singerco.com/IPsvcManuals/211G155_G156.pdf I hope this made some sence. Good luck Tor

Yes Erik, what you are describes so well is very important factors to problem-free operation of the machine. Users should remember this when they expect these machine to work perfect with all thread and needle sizes. These machines should be adjusted with the needle size u use the most, the possibility of stitch errors increases for every needle size bigger or smaller than the adjusted needle size. I guess the machines in your factory only use one thread size all the time and you readjust hook needle distance if you change the thread size. Hi Mia, lets stop there for a moment before you starts to adjust your machine. Am I missing something here, or is this a second thread you posted about your stitching errors? I went back to your first post and you wrote this: "Now what I really want to sew is Navajo blanket and soft garment leather... 4 layers thick, two layers of each... It barely fits under the raised walking foot. NO DICE, the thread either breaks at the needle or it skips stitches badly... So, do I have the wrong machine for the job? or am I still doing something wrong?" You also wrote "Take a old pair of denim jeans, double them, and the machine walks thru 4 layers of denim like butter... as long as you can keep the upper thread between the disks, it does seem to want to "jump" out." Your machine sewed fine on the thinner stuff. Then I see you have changed the needle system, is the machine adjusted to this needle? What size was is adjusted to? and was the needle hook distance set to this needle? When you read what Erik says about the hook needle distance, make sure you have not adjusted your machine to a size 120 needle and using a 180 (or equivalent in Singer sizes witch I am not familiar with). This is important factors, you might have the machine to do what you ask of it. However, make sure its set up to properly for the job first. Good luck Tor

Its not a easy job to adjust a machine if it is your first time, thats why there are sewing machine mechanics. However, you are lucky its a Singer machine who is well covered with service manuals. On older German machines its often hard to find such manuals. Its important that you do all the adjustments, and in the right order to get it right. Make sure you use a new right size needle (as listed in the manual), and fresh left twisted thread. Make sure you thread your machine right, use all holes in the top thread guide (s) to get twink out of the thread. Good luck

Just take it apart and check the position of it in the middle of the needle plate (side wise), get a service manual. Good luck. Tor

These are copies of Germans and Japanese position motors, I have Adler's from the 1980`s who came fully equipped with such motor. Sometimes it helps to look out of the window. However, the pro motors like Efka and Ho sing cost more; they can also do much more. They are in no need of a speed reducer and can be equipped with all kinds of extras like: Back-tacking, foot lift, thread trimmer, needle cooler and you name it....... The one I use on my 441 clone ( German Efka 1550-AB 321) has up 1800 watt and 8 Nm of torque, I only use the half of it. You might not need all this on a leather machine, nevertheless it makes all the upgrades possible if you need it later. They are small and can be placed inside machines or on the back side of the machine like on the pic. Or the traditional way under the table. Then the quality is superior, the ones I have from the 1980 still works very well. Price from 600 to 900 $, remember you do not need a reducer; then it is not that expensive. Tor

Shoes off, easy on the pedal and use your right hand on the fly wheel to as breaks. Here is a home made reducer one of our member made (pic one). If I have a machine with three phase motor who needs to be slowed down I use a frequency controller, it gives you full controller of the motors speed and many other parameters too. You can run it at one stitch a minute if you like. And it converts the motor in too a single phase so you can use it on the regular household current. Here is one. Tor

Nice Ludvig Adler 205-370 clone for sale in the used forum 1250 $, thats a bargain, these cost more than 3k new.

I agree Greg, they later found out it was not a 67 but a 367 ( see the other thread http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=47906 ) And thats an hole different story and a very good price. Tor

The only thing that is important to me is that the material is workable. I seldom find a foot that does not need to be modified Tor

Hi Steve, I have several big old Adler's myself, 204, 105 and a very nice 5-27 with all saddler's attachments. The last one is in mint condition and I used it for many years before i got a 441. Here is a German used leather machine dealer who has all the Adler on your list and more. http://www.sieck.de/en/machines/sewing/diverse-machines/ The Kochs Adler cl. 43 is a long arm cylinder-bed barrel-shuttle lock-stitch. Kochs Adler made eleven subclasses for export; 43-1 is drop feed up the arm. Cl. 43-3 is a Zig Zak up the arm. Sieck has these two for sale. The Class 20 is the same machine as the Singer class 7. Adler later made a newer version of this machine class 120, I know of one for sale is a brand new machine made by Adler. These Adler 120-30 is made new in Germany on license from Dürkopp Adler and the price is plus 300 000,00 Euro. The same company also make the class 30 shoe patching machine. http://www.sl-spezial.de/sl/index.php/flat-bed-lockstitch-machine-adler-class-120-30-e2.html So if you know of anybody who want one there is one Adler 120-8 available in Norway to "normal" price. It has a 40 mm foot lift and its a monster. I do have these three Adler`s for sale cl. 5-27 ( Cyl. bed, 220V electronic adjustable top speed clutch motor and speed reducer. All saddler's attachments ), cl. 105-25 top and bottom feed cyl. bed (new table and new 4 pole low speed clutch motor, speed reducer) cl. 204-64 needle and bottom feed flat bed with Efka variostop. All set up for leather work, ready to sew and in good condition. Thanks Tor

Thanks Mike

Hello Leatherdog, I have several Adler's, on one of them a 105 I had to change the feed dog screw. Otherwise I had no such problem on them. However, if the screw loosens on it use removable locktite (I do not remember the color on , red or blue). Both Dürkopp Adler and Juki recommends to use this on their big cylinder beds (DA 205-370 and Juki 441). It is written in their service manuals as well. The reason it is not recommend in the 205-64 manual is simply that it was not invented the time it came out. If the screw is not the problem you got to take apart the shuttle race and inspect the feed bar and links, see it there are any loose screws. If it moves side ways, check for gap between the collars on its feed bar drive shaft. The only common problem is that the feed dog screw tends to loosen on these kinds of machines, because of much use and big foot pressure. Good luck Tor

The shipping would kill me and I already have 11 machines, it should be enough. This is a good opportunity for somebody to get a very good machine. If you had the right class from the beginning you might have chosen otherwise. However, the Consew will do the job too and you will have $ over for other stuff you need. Good luck Tor

That a very good buy, If I was in a need of a heavy stitcher I would happily pay the shipping to Norway for that. There was no price on it, these costs much more that the 441 clone new, Around 3500$ I think.

Hi Janet, Thats a different story the 367 is a very good and valuable machine in the upholstery class. Used ones are worth the same as three new Consews 206. All Adler and later Dürkopp Adler machines that ends with "67" is flatbeds of the upholstery class. This one is the first of the modern M class machines. It will do the same as the other 67`s (and other upholstery triple feeds) at low speed, in addition to do it in high speed too. Dürkopp Adler (DA) do not make low and high speed upholstery machines any more. They are all capable in doing both and has central oil lubrication systems. Both Adler and Dürkopp (before they became the same company) made such machines already in the 1980`ties. Examples are the triple feed Adler 767 and Dürkopp 291. I would love to trade my "new" Dürkopp Adler 267-367 with Efka pos motor for it any-day. This machine has a bigger bobbin takes heavier thread and has a longer arm. This is the latest in German sewing machine technology and is what the Consew is going to look like in about ten years time. Have a look at its specs: http://www.duerkopp-adler.com/export/sites/duerkoppadler/commons/download/public/367/367_d_gb_f.pdf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1liHhCliUDU No offense, I get a bit carried away here. Nevertheless, is should not be a difficult choice. The only concern I have is the low price, these machine are normally for sale for much more than that. That is if you can find a used one for sale at all. There are no reason to sell it unless you get bankrupt and have too. Used German upholstery class sewing machines are usually much cheaper in Europe than in the US. The few 367 I have seen for sale here was all around 3500$. However, the price it also depended of the version of it. They are normally equipped with a Efka 1550 internal position motor (900$ new) and all extras (air or el. back-tacking, foot-lift, thread trimmer etc.) This is a very high quality machine. Nevertheless, it might have been used in a factory and are in need of a refurbishing. I would definitely have looked in to this DA (Dürkopp Adler) 367, the only better machine around is the new DA 867 (based on the same head as this). If you cannot see any motor on it do not worry, the servo motor is placed inside the head. Here they sell them with the Efka 1550 mounted in a direct drive on the main shaft. I use the same motor on my 441 clone, it has 8 Nm of torque and I only use the half of it. It would be a shame to put a clutch motor on it, you would not use a Volga (Russian antique) motor in a Cadillac either. However, most of the high end system servo motors only comes in a 220V., therefore anything is possible. If this machine is OK you have a easy choice, this is a Mercedes-Royse of the upholstery class. Keep us posted. Good luck Tor

Hi Cmore, The Cowboy Cowboy CB227R is the right machine class for your kind of work. The Techsew 2700 looks like the same machine too. I use a Pfaff 345 (triple feed) who are similar to these two for work like that and a 441 for heavier stuff. I do not think the Boss will be a good choice for you, unless you are planning to use very thick thread. A triple feed cylinder bed like the CB 227R, my Pfaff or equivalent is what most bag makers use all around the world. Both Techsew and Cowboy dealers are member of this community. Both machines are Chinese clones built strong enough for a leather shop. For factory use eight- seven a original German or Japanese machine might be a better choice. Based on the hours of use in a saddler/leather work shop, a clone will be the most economical choice. A other advantage is the support, the dealers are both members here and are frequently helping others in this forum. The Cowboy CB227R ( The Techsew too, I guess) uses the same foot as the Singer 111W. Therefore, feet's and attachments are readily available to affordable prices. The last thing is very important, if you cannot find feet's for a machine its not very useful. Make sure your machine comes with a servo motor, unless you are a pro at controlling a Clutch motor you will need it. Both machines does, and the one on the Cowboy gets good feedback in this forum. Good luck Tor

I do not know them, I know the ones for sale new are RB5, maybe this is a old one made in Japan. I know this info is in this forum already, you can try searching for it. Otherwise, I am sure somebody will help you soon. Good luck. Tor

Ok, let me know and I will check it in the manual tomorrow, I am of to bed its late night here. You should also check if the Consew is made in China or Japan like the older was. There also a number after RB that might be the size of the hook or something else, there are lot of members that use these machine who can help you value it.

Hi, I have many Adler machines (later Dürkopp Adler in 1990) and I also had a 67 before. It is a good machine who now is obsolete. Nevertheless, it uses the same parts as the later Adler 167, who is identical but have a bigger bobbin (hook is bigger). The Adler 67 came in allot of different subclasses, not all was triple feed. Thats why you need to know the number after 67-? who is the subclass number to compare it to the Consew. The Adler 67 is now a old sewing machine and if you are going to pay 1500$ it has to be refurbished. I do not know the Consew 206RB very well, only that they are now made in China and are available new. Member dealers sell them for around 1300$ new, parts and support is available. They are triple feed and older models was made in Japan. However, post picture of them and we will help you value them. Second hand machines are cheaper in Europe than USA, however I sold my triple feed 67 for 500 $ and it was in a very good condition. Adler parts are expensive in the US too. I would have bought a new Consew to 1300$ and added 50$ for a controllable servo motor. You going to need a servo motor upgrade to be able to sew slow anyway . http://www.tolindsewmach.com/consew-206rb.html Tor

Big but no leather stitcher. Some years ago I bought a triple feed Singer 144W-305 with a 30 inch arm. It was a gray color machine in good condition and I got it very cheap, I thought it may be useful on heavy leather. It is a bigger version of a 111W and the 112W. It has a one inch foot lift, XXL hook and can sew with very thick thread. I used tex 400 top and bottom on it, but it could handle more than that. This machine was made for sewing car door panels, it could easily sew upholstery leather on to wooden fiber plates. Nevertheless, it was not very useful as a leather stitcher. For sewing heavy leather you need a machine horizontal shuttle hook and preferable triple feed. This type of shuttle can handle much more thread tension before skipping stitches or braking needles. I traded it in a Adler 105 top and bottom feed cylinder-bed. It only have a foot lift of 3/8 inch but can sew more than twice as thick leather with the same heavy thread. That`s because the Adler has a horizontal shuttle hook that can handle the extra thread tension needed to sew heavy leather with thick thread. Today I use a 441 clone to sew my heavy leather. Tor

Nice machine, but a bit of topic. Place it in the the for sale forum.

Hi, here is a other one in delerin http://tuffcase.com/shop/index.php?main_page=shopping_cart&number_of_uploads=0 I have one from them and is very durable, I made a mistake of putting to much letters on it. Because it is only 1 inch long the letters is a bit tiny. I have used this one for three years and it still is like new. I am in the marked for a couple of bigger ones, one for a mallet and the other for a clicker press. I think laser cut stamps makes a better impression than molded ones. Anyway, this one is only 35$ and 10$ shipping to Norway. (price includes up to 150 letters 1x 3/4 inch oval size) 1 1/2 inch round maker stamp 45$, can anybody beat these prices? let me know. What is the price for a Grey Ghost maker stamp? Tor

There is one person here who are not afraid to modify is own stuff. Leatherkind, he is a very resourceful person. I want to thank him for the 3D printed 441 stirrup plate he sent me. Despite the fact that it is made out of plastic, works very well. It is maybe a bit of topic, I will post about in a other thread. Thank you very much. Tor

I always wanted to move my metal working tools out of my leather shop, because of the unwanted dust from the bench grinder and such. But it never going to happen, I need them almost every day. Until somebody who knows what we need starts fabricate attachment; we have to modify our own stuff. For those of you who are scared of attacking your machines or attachments with grinding tools. Or simply lack the experience, start to practice on some less valuable stuff. Until we all have 3D laser cutting metal printers (sometime in the future), we have to help ourself. The metal tools are of course useful for maintenance/restoring leather tool and hardware too. I guess they will forever be a part of a leather workshop. Tor

Make one from a blanket set. kwokhing.com sell reasonable priced foot set; about 10 $ a set. It easy to make the piping foot yourself with a Dremel rotary tool. http://www.kwokhing.com/juki/441.htm Good luck Tor