Wizcrafts

I have learned to thread the top this way, to avoid jump-offs: After coming down from the top tension disks, feed the thread through the twisted steel eye on the bottom disk array and to the left side of the disk. Go around the inner disk twice, counterclockwise, then back up through the same guide - to the eye of the check spring, then up the the take-up lever, etc.

The outer pressor foot is mounted to the pressor bar, by either one or two set screws, probably accessible when you remove the front cover (some are secured on the back of the head). Find and loosen the screws with the mechanism in the position where the foot is as far down as it can go. When you loosen the holding screw the pressor bar will probably snap down, from the pressure of the top pressure spring. With the foot solidly on the throat plate, tighten the set screw and rotate the wheel. If you still have enough lift on both inner and outer feet, nothing else needs to be done. If there is now insufficient lift on one or the other, there is a crank sticking out the back which is used for two purposes. One is to set the height of the lift of the feet. The other balances the lift height of one or the other. I often readjust the second setting to accommodate jumping over different thicknesses of work. You can set the ratio so that the inner foot lifts higher or lower, to match the point of entry of the needle, into the top layer. If you need a mechanic's manual, someone out there will point you to one.

The foot on the left, although totally out of focus, is a spring edge guide foot. The feet on the right are standard pressor feet, with a wire finger guard.

To further refine my previous statements about qualified sewing machines, consider these points: A less capable machine may be stretched beyond its normal operating parameters, allowing it to use heavier thread and sew thicker material than it was designed for. Eventually, this will lead to premature wearing out of the main moving parts. It will also call for more frequent bobbin reloads. A more capable machine can easily be dumbed down to sew lighter weight material, with thinner thread and smaller needles than are normally used. They are not ruined by sewing into thick, dense leather with very heavy thread. The big stitchers have very large capacity bobbins, requiring much fewer reloads. All of the Juki 411 and Adler 205 clones have flat table attachments that screw onto their work tables. While this small table top is not the same as the 20 inch deep standard industrial table top, it does offer about 8 inches of depth and over a foot in length (l-r), adding much stability to work that needs to be spun around while laying flat. In contrast, a flat bed machine can never become a cylinder arm machine! I work for a one man shop, as a part time helper and sewing machine operator. I myself am a one man shop, as a leather worker and computer troubleshooter. I trust one man operations for their devotion to their customers and willingness to speak with us. It is comforting to speak with the same person when you have problems with a machine, or need spare, or non-standard parts, quickly. If the owner of a one man shop gives me a special price, nobody upstream is going to over-ride him. Great customer service will always lead to referrals and return business. Putting down competitors tends to have the opposite effect, in my experience and in my plans for future purchases. As for the remark about "the snake" not being a good guy, read what the Chinese Zodiac says about those born as "snakes:"

While I can induce my walking foot machine to sew with #207 thread, it does so reluctantly and with great stress on the moving parts. When I load the same thickness of thread into a Cobra Class 4, or Cowboy CB4500, or Union Lockstitch machine, it sews it with ease, into much greater thicknesses than any normal machine can handle. Even an Adler 204/205 will sew to 3/4" with ease. The Cowboy and Cobra big stitchers are well within your stated budget. The big Adler is not.

Like Steve said, a post machine. I used to have a Singer post machine and used it to make biker caps, cowboy hats and moccasins. The old ones were only good for #69 thread. Some newer post machines can now sew with #138 thread.

To sew to 7/16 inch, the minimum machine you will require is a Consew 1508H, or Cowboy 1508NH - flat bed, or a CB2500 (GA1) cylinder arm machine. That is the sewing capacity for those machines. The 1508 machines can use up to #207 thread, while the CB2500/GA1 types can use #346 thread. Most leather workers who want to sew to almost a half inch go to the next level and buy a high lift, super heavy machine, which is a clone of the Juki 441 or Adler 204, or 205. These machines use a very long needle, system 7x3 and 794 and can sew beyond 3/4" with #415 thread. Useless for leather. This is a home sewing machine, for cloth, that is limited to using $69 thread and smaller. You are going to run into feeding problems when you try to sew garment leather on a home sewing machine. The top grain tends to stick to the pressor foot. To get around this you'll need to change to a roller foot. The so-called walking foot attachments for home style machines are not true walking feet at all. They have a spring loaded outer foot that follows the top layer, then snaps forward. They reduce the sewing thickness to about 3/16" under the feet. Leather garments are fabricated in factories by little old ladies wearing babushkas, sewing on walking foot Juki and Seiko machines, that go tapokita, tapokita, all day long. Buy yourself a new triple feed walking foot machine, with high lift (Juki 1508H or equivalent) and be done with it. Get one with a new high-torque, small pulley servo motor, rather than a clutch motor.

By model 19 something, my guess is they meant a 31-19. This is a fine machine for tailoring and alterations. It will do a good job on leather garments and chaps. These machines are not true walking foot machines; but are called trailing foot. The outer foot is spring loaded and follows the top layer as it moves backward (no reverse). When the feed dogs drop the spring loaded foot snaps forward and waits for the needle and inner foot to rise, then it drops for the next cycle. This pressor foot is best suited to sticky materials, like garment leather. The maximum thickness under the foot is 5/16" and the largest needle size is #22. It can be used with thread sizes not exceeding #138. These old machines can be had for a couple hundred bucks. They are out-dated by today's standard of real walking feet, with triple feed and high lift.

I just found the place in my control panel to ignore all posts and PMs from another member. Please disregard my previous request for help finding this feature. My time on the forum is better spent not having to deal with bullshit from tat2. Name: Wiz UserName: Wizcrafts IP Address: 68.41.133.25 Email Address: leatherworks@wizcrafts.net

I want to block viewing all posts and replies from a particular troublesome member of this forum from showing when I am logged in. I have looked around, but can't find a link to "block this person." Could you advise me on how to accomplish this task, if it is even possible on this board? Name: Wiz UserName: Wizcrafts IP Address: 68.41.133.25 Email Address: leatherworks@wizcrafts.net

Hauss; Any one of the three machines you listed will sew the projects you described here. Look them over and under, lift the pressor feet with the knee lever, to check if the maximum clearance is suitable, then buy the cleanest machine, with the highest lift and smoothest action when you rotate the wheel 360 degrees. Toe down slightly on speed pedal to disengage the clutch, if the belt is on. Consider the 220 volt 3 phase motors to be paperweights, which will need to be replaced, and see if you can negotiate a better price. When you get you chosen machine home, order a new servo motor from one of our dealers. I bought mine (SewPro 500GR) from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. Their phone number is 866-362-7397.

If you have v220 volt outlets in your house or shop, a 220 volt, 3 phase motor will draw half the current as the 110 version would, for the same horse power output. If you do not have 220 volt, 3 phase outlets, those motors will be useless to you and will have to be replaced completely with 110 volt, single phase motors. Clutch motors typically sell for around $110 shipped. These machines were probably set-up for use by upholsters, or denim garment, or drapery sewers. Therefore, they probably have rather large pulleys on the motors, for high speed, get-er-done sewing. If you plan to use one of those machines to sew leather, you'll want to change the pulley on the motor to a 2" pulley. You will also need to buy a shorter v-belt, at -1 inch for ever inch the new pulley is smaller than the original. Not a big investment, but money out none-the-less. If you get a machine with a 110 volt clutch motor, but cannot master feathering the clutch, you will end up replacing it with a DC servo motor. This will cost you between $180 to $200.00 shipped, with a 2" pulley and a shorter belt (if needed). You never said what you want to use the machines to sew. Are you sewing vinyl seat covers, or buffing wheels, or cloth garments, or upholstery, or chaps, or pancake holsters? What? What number/size thread will you be using? How big will each project be? How thick? The job will dictate the type of machine best suited to perform it.

It looks like a 441 clone to me. The machine I sew on at work has exactly the same bottom thread check system and the same thread guide loop. If you can get a front view photo we can get a better ID.

Yer welcome Mary! I hope it helps you pick the right machine from the get-go.

If I had to start over again, and I did in 2009, I would buy a modern walking foot machine, like a new Consew or Juki, or a Chinese or Japanese equivalent, or a cylinder arm walking foot machine, with a flat table attachment. I would avoid old machines like the plague they usually are. My first time around, I spent several thousand dollars buying old worn out or inadequate sewing machines, until I found the ones that could sew thick leather with heavy thread. If you are really lucky you may find somebody who is selling an Adler 205 at a price you can afford. With a budget of $1000, your choices are limited for new machinery. You may have to buy a machine with a clutch motor, then, if you can't master the clutch, buy a servo motor later on. A good used Adler will cost you double what you say you want to spend, as will the new Chinese clone machines (which are now excellent). Here is how I went about purchasing and modifying an industrial sewing machine, in mid-2009. This was before I discovered this forum, with all of its leather machine dealers. Now, one can buy a machine already optimized to sew leather, at very good prices, with awesome followup service. I watched my local and nearby listings on Craigslist until I found a local company that listed leather and upholstery sewing machines and vinyl for sale. I scheduled an appointment and was first shown a room full of cloth and vinyl material, with a bench full of fur sewing machines and sergers. I told the lady that they were not leather sewing machines, as advertised in the CL listing. I was then taken upstairs, where they had the ugliest Singer 111w155 I have ever seen! It was missing the pressor feet, and was mounted onto an old, cracked, brown wooden table top, with an outside the motor clutch mechanism, as old as Noah's Ark. I declined and was told that there was one more machine, but she didn't know if it was for sale. I insisted on seeing it. The machine was a Japanese built National 300N walking foot machine, with virtually no wear, or dirt, or grease on or under it. It had a 1/2 HP clutch motor and sewed perfectly, on vinyl. I was able to buy that National for the same price they were asking for the p.o.s. Singer that was missing the feet. Later on, I learned that I could use a longer needle system, type 190, which are used in Pfaff walking foot machines. After raising the needle bar 3/16", to maintain the timing, I was (and still am) able to sew just about 1/2 inch of leather, albeit with #138 thread. Number 207 thread does work, but not as well into ~1/2" of leather. Still, by limiting that machine to 7/16" of leather, I am able to use #207 thread, with a #24 or 25 leather point needle. I finished off the upgrade by purchasing a SewPro 500GR servo motor with a 2" pulley and shorter v-belt, from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. When it comes to sewing beyond 1/2 inch, you need a big dog, "441" clone machine (clone of Juki 441), or Adler 205 or clone. These will cost you between $1800 and $5900, depending on the brand and length of arm/workspace. For instance, a 9 inch cylinder arm walking foot 4412 clone machine, sold by most of our member dealers, can be bought for about $2100 shipped (or less). The same brand with a 16.5" arm will cost about $2500 to $2700 shipped, depending on if it has all available accessories added to it. For sewers who only need to sew up to 1/2 inch, and don't mind tooth marks on the bottom, there are the GA1 and Cowboy CB2500 10.5" cylinder arm machines. These machines typically go for under a grand, plus shipping. Adding reverse bumps up the price by about 300 bucks. Roughly $1500 to $1600 investment gets you the machine and most available add-ons, shipped. Both the CB2500 (GA1 types) and 441 clones (and a real 441) can sew with very heavy nylon thread, #415 or heavier. They use needle sizes 26 or larger, which none of the lesser machines are capable of using. These machines have long, spool shaped bobbins, with disks on the ends, which hold a huge amount of thread. You won't have to stop in the middle of most jobs to change bobbins, if you start with a fully loaded bobbin, tightly wound. Most standard upholstery type walking foot machines are limited to a #25 needle, maximum. Most of them have small or medium capacity bobbins. If you are able to get the machine to sew with #207 thread, the bobbin will run out after a handful of belts. With the standard system 135x needles, they can only sew to 3/8 inch.

If you do decide to market these contraptions on the forum, I will be one of your first buyers. I have the newer style patcher; a 29k172.

Now I don't feel so foolish!

I wish I had a one way treadle on my long arm Singer patcher! It is fine when already in motion. But, when I stop and restart, I often have to hand wheel over the "hump" to get it to run forward.

Your needle/thread chart matches my personal experience. I have bought thread on eBay that comes in the cord/size and in T designations. I use charts I found online to cross reference these numbers with the sizes I am familiar with. The most common difference is nylon thread is between the B or V numbers and the T numbers. For instance, B or V, or # 69 is the same as T70, while #277 equals T270, which is the same as 4 cord linen. Confused yet?

For anybody else who wants to sew leather, bobbinless, there are some time-proven, heavy duty, leather sewing, needle and awl chainstitch machines still being produced by the Puritan company. I came very close to buying one for cheap, several years ago. These machines are best used with waxed linen thread, which won't unravel if one stitch breaks. They are used to sew golf bags, briefcases, luggage, boots, shoes, gun cases, bowling ball bags, and other items that need a very strong stitch, the back of which is not usually seen. Other industrial machines already exist that perform a chain stitch. Most of these machines are not strong enough to sew leather and can't use waxed linen thread.

Caffy; If your holsters are only going to be two layers of 9 oz veg-tan leather, a 227 type machine will do fine. But, it will be limited to using #138 thread. Most holsters are sewn with #277 thread, or thicker. To use heavier thread you will need to move up to a more capable sewing machine. Some of the heavy weight sewing machines currently in use by our members are sold by Cobra, Cowboy, Artisan, Ferdo, Techsew, Adler, Campbell-Randall and Juki. Most of these companies have stitchers capable of sewing to and beyond 3/4 inch of hard leather. There are some that are fed by feed dogs on the bottom; some that have triple feed and some that have a needle and awl and jumping foot. Since you are a beginner to industrial sewing machines, I would recommend that you use a simple to operate machine, like the ones we refer to as 441 clones. Based on the Juki 441 type, these machines come with cylinder arms in lengths of 9" up to 25". You might do fine with a 9" model, such as the Cowboy CB3500, Cobra Class 3, or equivalent in other brands. These 9 inch stitchers can be bought for about $1,800, plus shipping (some are more, some are less). If you think ahead you'll anticipate that someone will ask you to build something too large to be sewn on a 9" arm machine. Fore-planning suggests a 16.5" arm machine, like the Cowboy CB4500, or Cobra Class 4, etc. These machines all use very thick thread, huge needles and have very large bobbins. All are sold with easy to control servo motors and speed reducers. These machines sew over 3/4 inch and sell for $2500, plus or minus, plus shipping. The reason for the plus or minus in the pricing is that most dealers offer accessory packages that are optional. Also, prices may be going up due to money market factors.

Ronnie; I dream about sewing machines all the time! Tapokita, tapokita

Tat2 and Bob; Do you guys realize you were replying to a topic that is almost three years old now and hasn't been updated since the summer of 2008?

Sorry we had that misunderstanding. I posted this ad as a favor to the fellow I work for on a part time basis. It is his machine. I think it is a good deal because of all the dozens of extra blades and custom made spacers included with it and the work he had done to add grease fittings and sealed bearings. That machine flat out slices leather backs and bends into straps. All of the sewing machines that M&M had for sale have been sold already.

Chris; Call Campbell-Bosworth (800-327-9420) and ask if their N&A machines will sew biothane effectively. Maybe they can get some and sew it together for you as a sample. Then you can assess the result. Since you're in Ohio, if you can get some biothane straps you could take them to Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines (866-362-7397), or Ryan's Saddlery in Lima Ohio (866-507-8926), and see if one of their various Cowboy stitchers will sew it properly. It believe that you can do this by using a size larger needle than normal to open a bigger hole, with #277 or #346 thread. The tensioning and take-up parts are plenty strong and can easily handle the added strain. These machines are very powerful and can be run very slowly, with huge amounts of punching power at slow speeds.