Alan Bell

I have to agree with Ashley. I currently drive a truck for a living and would love to park that b@#$h and make saddles, braid rawhide and work a horse or two for a living but with the family I can't. If you are single now you may have a chance BUT do not try and compete with the production saddle makers. Billy Cook lives down the road from me and he will tell you he hasn't made a saddle in about 20 yrs but he has a warehouse of Mexican labor in Sulphur OK that are cranking them out. Around here TX his saddles are STILL considered first rate but I guarantee he is using the cheapest trees he can buy, the cheapest leather he can buy and the cheapest hardware he can buy! And although the Mexicans are good at what they do they are not "Great" saddlemakers and one person cuts the leather , the next person, stamps, the next dyes the next assembles the next sews and on and on until a saddle is made. It is just like FORD or any other assembly line. There are over 100 "saddle makers" in Greenville TX where I live and they are all shops like I just described. Your first saddle you build would cost you just as much as if you were going to buy one at whatever level you chose. You want to build at the production level or the custom level your first one will cost you the same and that is if you do hand stitching! Add a sewing machine and even a cheap production grade saddle will cost you more to build than you could have bought one for. The artistic quality is very, very high for those that are making a living at custom saddles look at the post "recent saddles" in the Show Off section and "some of my work" in the Saddle and Tack Makers Gallery for an idea of where things are at now in the world of custom saddles. You may have what it takes. You have the desire. Work Smart. Don't bite off more than you can chew. Give your self time to develop a style and a rep! Stay positive and it can happen just don't expect it to happen overnight. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - So Much Trouble

Denise (and Rod) I think Bruce is describing a 'Taylor' Cantle. I am thinking along the lines of a Taylor cantle 4 1/2" with a 35 degree angle, 1 1/4" dish and a straight back. In your opinion would sitting on a bare tree made like that feel different than sitting on a bare tree with a regular cantle 4 1/2" with 35 degree angle, 1 1/4" dish and a straight back. Wouldn't the Taylor tend to tuck the riders hips in even more or does it just make the rider "feel" more forward because of less bar and thigh space? It would be nice to have a bunch of different ones to fool with in order to decide what does what and what effect it has on the rider and his or her desired style of riding. If I can order a tree with the cantle basically in the shape I am going to build the ground seat into anyways then I can do a little less skiving or building up. Like you say the riders butt finds the lowest point because of gravity wont the Taylor described above slide that point a little more forward with less effort on the saddle makers part? I ask a lot of questions because I know how I would like to feel when I ride. At the Cowboy Museum when Dale and Steve built the saddle I asked both if they set in their ground seats while building them and they both said "No". I like to sit in each one I build and I'll have six or seven different people of all sizes and levels of riding experience and if I can't get the customer over then I like to get someone of similar build and in doing this it seems that fitting the cowboy that rides all day is a lot easier than fitting the "dude" or housewife that hardly rides at all. The cowboy is a lot more forgiving and will adjust to make the saddle work. Dale touched on this and told a story of how he rode an ill fitting saddle on a hunt but by the time the hunt was over he had adjusted and thought the saddle wasn't all that bad! Another reason I ask so many questions can be summed up with this story; at the same deal at the Cowboy Museum they had an "expert" speak about saddle fit. Right off the bat he talked about how he wanted the bars to gap along the horses back so that when the horse gathered itself and rounded it would fill in that gap and he used cutting as his example. (he had a heavy drawl so he sounded like he knew what he was talking about LOL) Well he did say "What do you think, Dale?" and Dale answered "Well, I like to have as much of the bars in contact with the horses back at all times as possible." Seems the "expert" didn't really have a lot to offer and they just should have let Dale speak! Anyways, down here in "The Saddle Making Capitol" of Texas I can't hardly find anyone with a logic and experience based idea or opinion on anything to do with saddles. Plenty of opinions; just no logic! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Don't Worry

Kevin, are you using a Hansen string cutter? Sharon had one made for her that incorporated a calipered dial to adjust the width for cutting and beveling. When she beveles she noticed that once you take off one corner when you turn the string around it takes off a little less on the other side, so she can turn the knob one mm or so and take off the same bevel. Also, do you dye before or after you cut string? and are you using Ritz too? This is great stuff! I'll have to get a honda from you to add to my collection, Sharon got me started on it she has a honda collection and I owe one to Vince for the one he sent me. I'll braid one up for you too if your interested we can trade. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

Hey Darc, what more can one say?!!!! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

Rod and Denise, I was going to try and talk to you about this very thing. I printed out your articles about cantles, horns, gullet width, etc. It got me to really thinking about the "forward seat" and its mysteries! part of the function of the slick fork was to be able to allow a rider to sit a bit more forward comfortably thus enabling you to be a bit more in line with the horses balance spot. Of course this balance spot moves forward the faster the horse goes so with a slick fork you are not fighting to stay 'up' with the horse. Theoretically! As you said the height and angle affect the ground seat as does the number of layers to the build up in a ground seat AND where the strainer attaches to the fork. Might then an shallow angle on the inside of the cantle help slide the rider into the sweet spot and tuck the hips which rounds the lower back placing the rider on his "W's"? So then with a shallower angle or dish how does this affect the cantle height? Wouldn't we want a straighter cantle back because a leaning one with a shallow dish would be basically tipping the cantle backwards? Is that a factor? The saddle tree maker fits the horse: the saddle maker fits the rider. Maybe not totally true! Can't we design a tree that will make it easier for the saddle maker to fit the rider into the position that is most beneficial to balanced/centered riding? My brain is swimming! Vaya Coin Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

Hey Kevin, Thanks for the pics. Does your fleshing beam have an arch to it and are you using a draw blade to flesh? How long do you cook the hide and what is the temp? I can review the tapes of Vince but since I have you here I'll just ask you. It seems a lot faster than liming the hide and a lot easier. It looks like a hereford have you ever gotten any brangus? Those thick necks sure mess up a hide! They drive me crazy. I get my hides from a packing house so I have to wait until the breed comes in that I want and I can pick it hide on hoof and come back after they skin it. They don't do as good a job skinning so I have quite a bit of fleshing left to do. I did a horse that had been down for half a day last winter and the blood had pooled on one side. It colored the hide actually pretty nicely! I'm not in the position to do it with a cow but you might give it a try. I'll try and get pics of the 2 different sides to show how it colored the hide. Johanna, I'll try to explain a little and Kevin can correct me if I get anything wrong. The cow in the first pic supplied the hide. Kevin skinned it trying to leave as little meat and fat on the hide as possible without cutting or nicking the skin. The he finished fleshing or removing fat and meat with the hide stretched out on that beam. Next he 'cooked' the hide in the 50 gal barrel set on the tire rim with the propane tank in water. Near as I can tell this is a technique Vince Donely came up with (not sure where Vince got onto it) Being careful to not actually cook the hide just heat it enough so that the pores open up and the hair "slips" out easily. He slipped the hair using a stick and pushed the hair right out of the follicle. Next he stretched the hide in the hoop frame and let it dry to cure. And 'Viola' RAWHIDE. The old standard technique involves "cooking" the hide in a lime bath for a few days, then neutralizing the lime in a vinegar bath for another few days (all this while you have to keep stirring every so often) then slipping the hair off and stretching in frame and drying and (a week or so later) 'Viola' RAWHIDE. There was also the just flesh it stretch it and dry scrape all the hair off method and that is what the Dorrances did. I've done one that way too and it is a lot of scraping and you have to get it done before the hide 'wrinkles' in the frame to do a really good job. My friend Barry Cox has his frame in an old barn held rigid between two post and scrapes on a hide for months because the frame doesn't give and the hide hardly wrinkles. Making leather is done with the lime method and then you use tannic acid from the bark of an oak tree and it takes about 5 - 6 months. Making your own rawhide is definitely better than buying lace from a production source. It is labor intensive but you can control the whole process. In any gear that you make; the better the quality of the raw materials the better your end project CAN be it is then up to the artist to work their magic as Kevin does so well! Vaya con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

Darc, I sure will. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

KAW, I Haven't made it to the Sheridan show yet but hope to someday. I have a video of Vince explaining his rawhiding technique I will have to review. I also visited with Dale and Rod a little about what tree makers do to make rawhide and it seems to take a little less time. I had heard about it from a deer tanning standpoint but had not tried it. It uses a chemical that is normally used in processing photographs and I was thinking of trying it next. Have you done it? Can't think of the chemical name right now but it is easily found at camera shops. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

Kevin, Saddles too!!!!?? You really are my HERO!!!! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

I asked Dale this as I had recieve adamant instructions to do it one way by one fellow and the opposite way by another fellow and both for the same reason! VERY confusing to a bear of very little brains! Dale said it didn't really matter and that he had even spliced them together running in different directions before! As Bruce pointed out after they are mashed in place by a couple of rides it becomes negligible. I think the wool on the shearling against the wool of the blanket or pad creates enough friction to keep them both in place and in my tiny bit of experience if your saddle has blanket showing both in front and in back then it is pretty hard to get them to wriggle out from underneath the saddle. If however you only have a teeny tiny bit of blanket showing to the front then it is fairly easy to get it to wriggle out the back no matter what direction your shearling is facing. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Greg, I think I have all the tapes I took of Dale and Steve onto my computer and I can save them as files on a CD that you can view with Windows Media Player. I'll try when I get home and will let you know how it works! Bob Marley

Ok Kevin, I'd have to agree with you about Vince and consistency but I think Nate is learning some neat things in Argentina and he has managed to incorporate them into what we do over here nicely. Vince is also the fastest braider out there and he really cranks out those bosals but does not sacrifice quality for speed. Have you cooked a hide like Vince does? I have a print out of the style of knots Sharon does she and Ray learned them from Ed Pass if you are interested when I get home I can scan them and email them to you. Sounds like I probably met you in OK too, I was the only Black guy there so I'm a little noticeable. When I met Vince's son he wasn't doing much braiding but Nate's son had made a set of reins so I was teasing Vince's boy that he better get to braiding, LOL, I'm glad to here he is doing some now and I'm sure he probably can already put me to shame! I'll tell you seeing your work has inspired me too! At any rate I'm sure we will run into each other some day. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

KAW, you really need to look into getting involved in the Traditional Cowboy Arts Assoc.. I would be surprised if you were not qualified for membership. It would give you a place to showcase your talents and let a lot more people see the quality of braiding that you are producing. A few yrs. back they had a round table with braiders from Argentina. You'd have loved that! Nate, Leland and Mike Beaver hosted it and braiders like Vince Donely, Jeff Minor, Jay Palm (Ortega's only student) Sharon Paulin, Ray Huffman etc. etc. were there. The guests of honor were 2 braiding masters from Argentina that showed some of their techniques with us. 90 strand braids on knife handles, a girth that took over 1 year to braid, a flat braid called the 'trenza patria' (Argentina's national braid) were among the things featured and Nate and Leland visited them the next year and then Nate braided the Santa Ynez set of reins that were featured in the Western Horseman that were wrongly attributed to Leland and labeled traditional California style! They featured an Argentine pattern called 'farolito' that makes little lanterns for buttons. VERY COOL! Everyone here should look at your braiding and the close ups to see the tightness of the braid, the evenness of the interweaves, the straightness of the braid and the creativity in the design. These are the things that set custom gear and custom gear makers far above the masses! I've got another HERO! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell p.s. What does KAW stand for? Bob Marley

KAW, I'm in Texas near Dallas. I could see Nate's influence in some of your gear. I did the TCAA thing with Nate a few years back. I REALLY like how you attach your popper to the quirt and the romal! Have you ever been to the TCAA shows in OKC? This year it is Sept. 29th. I suggest that everyone that can make it go! It features some of the very best gear makers in the US and Canada. Saddles, Rawhide, Bits and Spurs and Silversmiths. Lots to see and learn. Hopefully, I'll be there too. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

Hey KAW, I really enjoyed your work. Great braiding! Where are you located? I'd love to visit with you. Do you know Nate or Leland? I am always looking to meet with braiders and visit about braiding and tack. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

Well, (still waiting David's response) the plot thickens! Following in the lines of and somewhay reading between what David has written in previous post and looking at the picture posted by my friend Jane we arrive at a confused place. David stated that he always places "al la Jineta" and "a la brida" as formost concepts (I am paraphrasing here). These concepts although coming to us from Spain actually are the difference between the Muslims and Christians and their style of horseback combat. A la Jineta refers to the North African Moors that ruled Spain for 700 yrs and the phrase is still used in Latin America to describe a person that is brave, agile, and daring especially on horseback. In N America it was adapted to working cattle from horseback by the Conquistadors once they had nothing and noone else to conquer. While the riders style may remain the same across the two different activities (warfare and cow work) the purpose and use of the saddle is quite different. These difference necessitated fundamental design changes most notable in the addition of the saddle horn. Maybe David can help us out by elaborating a bit on how he uses these concepts in his tree design and what effect, if any, it has had on the different roles the saddle plays between warfare and cow work. If we are building for 'a la Jineta' riding in regards to warfare we do not have to worry about the effects a 600# steer will have on our saddle, the rigging, the saddle placement or the tree in the same regards as if we are building for 'a la Jineta' riding AND cow work. I think that is where Bruce is heading and you can add to this if I am leaving things out. This is really cool stuff and being the analytical goober that I am I really enjoy tossing these concepts around. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

While we are waiting for David's response I just wanted to comment on part of Bruce's question. In roping we want the force to transfer from the critter to the horse insuch a way that the horse easily transfers it to his feet. Hence the low, stout horn on a Wade. The reason a triangle shaped rig ie a 'flat plate' rigging is better for the job at hand than a double rig is because of the way the rigging pulls down the back end of a saddle with only the front girth attached. The rear girth igenerally has an inch or two of slack in it. Even if the horse is cinched up snug in the rear, once we start riding, that changes. The triangle or flat plate is transfering some of the pull, from our tightening the front girth, rearward or in other words when we tighten the front strap we are pulling the front and the rear of the saddle down at the same time. Try setting a saddle on a stand and pushing or pulling down on the rig plates on a flat plate saddle and have someone try and lift the rear of the saddle then try it with a double rigged saddle. Remember only apply force to the front girth and you will see. I think they should have done this on that kids show 'Wierd Science' to prove Pythagoras' Theorem! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

Sorry for the delayed response and maybe you already got it figured out but I thought I'd post a response anyways. You'll need 4 X 10.5' strands to braid 7' and to do it over one and under one but it would be nicer with 8 strands and doing an over 2 under 2 braid. with strings that long your options are; bundle each string so that it feeds out as you braid or start in the middle of each string and braid to the end and do it again. Then you will need some way to round and smooth out the braiding and also you will want to braid about 5 inches past the core and then loop back and splice the end into itself for an eye to put a connector in. Decide before hand if you think you might want to braid the connector into the rein permanently. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley / Soloman

Hey Ashley, really nice gear and I, like the others, am really impressed with the basketweave. I don't know if it has been mentioned on this board before but each basket weave stamp has an angle associated with it. If you were to scribe a horizontal refrence line and then make four rows going up consisting of 2 stamps, 2 stamps, one, and one you will create an angle with the top end of your basketweave stamp to the horizontal line. Not sure if I am describing this correctly but if your stamps are going in the pattern lets say 2 stamps (left to right) and then the next row up 2 more stamps (left to right) so as to make like a stair to the right and then one more stamp on the 3rd row and one more on the 4th row and take a straight edge and line it up just so that it touches the top left corner of each stamp and scribe that line then measure the angle you could use this to make all your stamp rows not "run off" the page or in this case the cover of your planner. It looks like if you had rotated the whole pattern a little clockwise you would have avoided this. Since your spacing is impeccable doing this one simple thing would give just that little "ummph" to send you over the top! I have a scrap piece with all my basketweaves stamped and the angle drawn in and the actual degree written there as reference. My wife is suffering through a vacation in Hawaii away from me and the kids so I can't take a digital pic to post but I learned it from one of Tandy's Craft Aid pages. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

Thank's for all the suggestions. I guess the best option is to offer them 2 sets of fenders since I can't really refuse to make the saddle as it is partial payment on a stud colt! It is for a good friend of mine and I don't think he would ever blame me for any shortcomings IF they are at his bequest BUT some folks might see "the saddle with the tiny fenders" and not mention it to him except to inquire who made tha saddle only to avoid me like the plague! So I guess I'll make the fenders for him and they can complain about STILL not being able to raise them up enough for her! And I can say I tried to shorten them a little but I guess I didn't take off quite enough! OOPS! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

Very nice work David! Your work has old world charm with modern styling. VERY COOL! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

Thanks Bruce, I'm guessing he wants the holes for hisself to be the last holes in the leathers so that there is not so much hanging there when she rides the saddle. His inseam is approx 6" longer than hers. He buckles the girth strap so there wont be a "tie" knot under his knees but I still think I can't avoid the blevins meeting the rigging plate whenever she rides OR the rivets at the top of the fender from showing when he rides, at least one of these things will happen if not both! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

David, I looked at the pdf and am not sure I follow the logic. You have the double ring as having the pull come from the front and rear girth yet on the drop plate the pull is only on the front girth. In rigging (concert, theatre, and construction) this is a bridle (if only the front girth was used) Pythagoras figured out the weight ratio (a squared plus b squared equal c squared) to show how much of the pull would be transfered to the back girth. Basically, you can take the distance measurements and they are the same as the weight or pounds of pull. So the distance from the rigging plate attachements front and rear squared plus the distance from the front attachment to the rigging plate squared equals the distance from the rear attachment to the rigging plate squared and that is the amount of pull that is transfered to the rear making a single rigged drop plate saddle pull just about evenly front to rear, This plus the addition of a rear girth strap would logically make the flat plate rig ride with the most amount of evenness as the horse moves and transfers weight through momentum. Your drawing gives the impression that the flat plate transfers force forward when in fact it transfers the force closer to straight down at the point of attachment especially if the angle between the point of attachment and the rigging plate is less that 45 degrees. This starts to get into trigonometry but I actually have an arena rigging manual that will let me calculate the amount of force if needed. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

I have a fellow that has a 6" inseam difference than his wife. He wants a wade saddle with drop plate rigging that can be adjusted to fit them both. I told him I think that the blevins will run into the drop plate if I build it that way. He suggested cutting the top of the fender by about 3 - 4" and then building the stirrup but when I do the twist to try and run the twist and the blevins down closer to the stirrup and to have a longer gap between the stirrup and the bottom swell in the fender leather. Make any sense? Kinda roll the whole thing around a bit. I'm not sure if this will give him enough to still avoid the blevins and rigging issue and there is also the issue of the rivets at the top of the fender being seen. Any suggestions besides raising the drop plate? Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

Hey Russ, Thanks. The core on one is a four plait reata piece and on the other is an 8 plait out of 1/8" strings. Both have a strip of chap leather wrapped around the inner braiding to make a smoother surface to braid the outer strings over and to build up evenly to the desired diameter. The strings on both bodies are 3/16" and I used 1/8" strings on the heelknots and 3/32nds on one noseband and 1/8" on the other. I build up the taper on the nosebands and the base of the heelknot using floral tape; it sticks to itself, has no glue and can also be shaped a little to help with the roundness of the heelknot. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley

Here is a pic of my latest two bosals. Let me know what you think and if you see anything I can improve on don't hesitate to mention it PLEASE!!! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell [if I am guilty I will pay! I shot the sheriff but I didn't shoot the deputy.] Bob Marley