Alan Bell

Nothing to it but to do it! If you've braided bolos then you've braided reins. More string to deal with so make sure you have 'tamales' that feed out fairly nicely. Try and braid the whole project at once and not have to stop and restart as it will show in the finished project. Pull evenly from side to side and try to keep your "v's" running evenly and have fun doing it! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Redemption Songs

Hey Mike, Like the others I can just say WOW. and Welcome to the board. I'm in Greenville and my sister in law lives in Fox Point near Tawakoni. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Redemption Songs

Thanks for the pics! I wish I could have been there but I've missed Ft Worth and Wichita Falls because I had to leave for Las Vegas. Maybe next year! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Redemption Songs

WOW Gregg. Those sure do look nice! Masterpieces! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Redemption Songs

Rawhide, I have not used tallow or liver but if you find Vaquero cream too pricey you can use white saddle soap instead and it works just fine. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Redemption Songs

LA PAT, I'll try and give a simple girl scout type lesson. If you were to go to Sydney Woods tutorial then in the drawings the points at the top and the bottom represent 'bights'. A bight is what happens if you put a bend in a straight length of rope most often it is when you double the rope. The half lope is the bight. In a turks head it is when the strand passes out of the body of the knot and then back in. Making any sense? If you are trying to cover the snap end of a leash I would assume you are going to need a 4 or 6 bight X 2 also called a one and one half turn button or a long pineapple or a cowboy button. It could also be tied with four or six strings respectively but I doubt that is what you are wanting to try now. Anyways, I like to think of the knot having a front and a back and to think that we are building from left to right and from top to bottom on the front and from bottom to top on the back. When the top to bottom on the front and the bottom to top on the back meet then we have finished the knot. Lets say I wrap a strand around a core. (1)The length that I am wrapping is the working end and the length that I am holding in place is called the standing end. I cross the working end over the standing end this becomes the front of the turks head and the top. That makes the strand passing around the core the back and the bottom so I need to arrange them so that the wrap goes down on the back to ensure it is the bottom. I've passed the working end over the standing end on the front and will do the same on the back. Now when I bring the working end around the front again is where I go under the standing end and over the first pass. (2)This is the 'beginning' of the pattern, again I will do the same thing on the back or bottom. Now around the front i would go over, under, over (3)and i would repeat that pattern on the back; over, under, over. I'm 'building' from the top to the bottom on the front and from the bottom to the top on the back and adding one move to the pattern each time around. If I do this pattern 1 more times adding one move each time and alternating how I start each sequence every other time I have made a 4 bight pineapple knot. If i did it growing each time, 3 more times for a total of six times around it is a six bight knot. I believe the math uses algorithms but could not swear to this. So, basically I am looking at the pattern and how it builds it self rather than trying to remember sequences. The basic pattern can be lengthened by doubling or tripling or even quadrupling the number of times you go front to back. That makes the knot longer. Hopefully, looking at it this way will help when you see someone else's drawings or instructions. It works for me and comes from something Ernie Laduceur said in Woolery's book. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Caution

Thanks Go2TX I will definitely pay closer attention to all these things on saddle no. 4 I'm working on it now so hopefully it won't be too long before I can post pics of it and we can all compare and see if I paid any attention at all in class! I still have a couple of trips down the road in that Peterbilt in the background but I will try and get as much of the saddle done as I can before leaving. And, where the heck is Floresville ?!? Think carefully before answering as I travel.... A LOT and I am not afraid to show up on a persons doorstep begging for crumbs of wisdom!! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Night Shift

Bruce and Don, THANKS!!! for such helpful critiques. Like an idiot I did not use one fender to model the other and later realized I had changed things. Actually I did try to 'flip' the pattern and then I still messed it up a bit and added a petal. Tooling seems to be something that is as challenging to me as braiding seems to others. Yes it is rawhide on the horn I just dyed it burgundy. I think it takes 30' of string to cover the horn like that. As for the rope strap, I made the saddle for a friend (he is featured in this months 'Western Horseman' on pps. 62 - 63) Roeliff Annon and I can fix the buckle next time I see him. I will look into using better hardware for the next group of 3. I greatly appreciate the critiques and will make use of all suggestions on the next set! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Work

Ok here's saddle no. 3 (I'm pretty slow but I'm on a roll and saddle no 4 won't be far behind!) I've got a bit of braiding to do after I get no 4 out the door and I'm going to try and be pretty consistent about getting things made. That durned ol' day job messes things up! Any critique is welcomed. I'm still trying to get my hands to do what my brain sees and I'll take any help I can get!! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - No More Trouble

Horse rawhide is thinner than most cow rawhide. The string is mostly used in Argentine type horse tack like bridles and quirts. Then also cover their traditional knife handles with it. It is pretty uniform in thickness and you don't have to split it to even it. You only use the hide running in a triangle from the bottom of the ear to the croup on each side of the horse and a triangle running from the throat to sex organs. The belly hide is even finer. Sometimes you can take the rump for a thicker piece. The Argentines also make a boot from the skin basically from the hock to the rear fetlock. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Duppy ConquerorHorse belly rawhide

Greg is right PLUS the cord and rope will wick moisture INTO the braid and will take longer to dry out but you can even treat the leather core before braiding to make it repel moisture. When the braiding goes over the core it will make the treatment last that much longer so it is a win win situation! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Nice time

Won't be able to make it but I have a couple of pieces in the show! Take a lot of pics to post so I can see what I missed! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Were goin' to a party! So, I hope you are hearty! Please don't be tardy! Cuz' it's a Punky Reggae Party! Bob Marley - Punky Reggae Party

Thanks for the replies, They pretty much sum up what i told the guy. He's just the kind of guy that makes a good "Devil's Advocate" and he will pay for a custom tree in a custom saddle and pretty much knows what to expect but was setting up a scenario for me to puzzle over. I tell folks my warranties are for life (MY LIFE) after I'm dead and gone so is the warranty, don't chase down my kids! Rod and/or Denise I like how you compare the 5 yr warranty over the useful life of a quality made saddle and I may put things in those terms to make it easier to see how a cheaper tree with a 5 yr warranty is REALLY inferior to a quality tree that though no warranty is expressed or implied will still carry its makers reputation with it and will probably be replaced after 20+ yrs if a defect shows then while the five yr warranty saddle maker would tell the customer that it's out of warranty! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Now the fire's burning out of control, panic in the city, wicked weeping for their gold! Bob Marley - Ride Natty Ride

I had a fellow ask me this question and I answered to the best of my abilities but I also told him I would post on this forum. I know that Rod and Denise Nikkle check this forum out regularly and that David Ganadek used to but I am not sure how many other tree makers do. I know that there have been some questions posed here addressing certain tree makers so I assume some of us are talking to them directly and maybe they are just lurking anyways my buddies question is in regards to tree warranties. He ask; "if the "cheaper" tree makers offer a 5 yr warranty on their trees shouldn't one expect to get a longer warranty on a more expensive custom built tree?" I honestly had not considered asking any of the custom tree makers about a warranty so I really couldn't answer completely. He is having a cutting saddle built locally by one of the saddle shops/factories (there are about 100 of them in Greenville TX) and they priced it with a Beatties tree or the Bowden tree with the Bowden being the pricier one because the Bowden carried a better warranty at least that is what they told him. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Crisis

Hey Steve, while no doubt the others have offered good advice I believe the standard way is to cut the outside piece just the size you need and to cut the lining oversize, glue the two pieces together and then trim the lining to match. Be careful not to cut or nick the original piece. Then you can take a piece of broken glass and holding it so that the flat of the glass is along the edge kinda scrape along your leather edge so that the edge of one side of the glass is scraping the edge of your piece. Then you can take a damp piece of canvas cloth and burnish the edge by rubbing it vigorously back and forth. This will seal the edge by closing the fibers and will leave it looking glossy. Barring the broken glass I guess you could sand the two pieces even but the broken glass is "traditional" if you will. Also you can rub some white saddle soap into the canvas to aid in the burnishing or you could also burnish with a piece of hardwood or even a plastic edge burnishing tool! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Soul Rebel

Hey Al, Bruce has spoken to the specifics of ordering from a custom maker a bit so I'll visit a bit about the generalities (if that is a word). I'll approach it from a round about way. When person of average to little knowledge about saddles brings one to me to evaluate it usually is something they feel they got a good deal on. To learn about the insides of a saddle looking at the outsides is what I'll address. By seeing what I DON'T want done on a finished saddle I know what to ask about on one before it is built. I don't want the tree to be broken and I can check this out by standing the saddle on the front end and pushing on the cantle trying to break the tree. I shouldn't be able to. While it is up like that I would look at how tight the rear jockeys are to the cantle and how tight the jockey is to the skirts. I would then lift the rear jockey away from the skirts to see how the skirts are attached. I prefer lug straps to sewn pockets because the sewing will usually pull ot before the lug straps. Then I would lay the saddle on either side and try and see how the rigging is attached between the skirt and the seat. Oh yeah if the saddle has in skirt rigging I would want the skirt to be split and sewn over and around the bars (kinda hard to describe in writing but there is a "right way" and everything else when it comes to in skirt rigging! Everything else puts the rider at greater risk. I want the attachments of my rigging to look secure and "right" Screws set and in straight and the same with nails. Although I may not be able to see all of them I may see one or two that may give me some clue. I would rub the wool all over the bar area on the side of the saddle that is down and I would use pretty good pressure to check for any irregularities. I would look at how the stirrup leathers look going over the bars and at how the way they hang relates to the rigging. If I can see any of the string holes in the bar area how far apart are they? Also, again can I feel any lumps in the skirt where the strings are located? Then I'd lay it on the other side and perform all the same checks. Obviously, a new saddle at a saddle makers shop should pass the same inspection and they should be ready and willing to address any issues you discover! They should supply one of their previous saddles to test. Then I would sit in the saddle on a saddle stand. If all this went well then I would start on the things Bruce mentioned! Vaya Con Dios Alan Bell Bob Marley - Natty Dread

When ever you get a new tool at TLF or TANDY they have a marble slab and a scrap piece of leather and are usually very adept at showing you all the different ways of using it. Also they make these sheets called 'craftaids' that explain things as well and give ideas on different applications. I'm not at home now but there is also a way to make a pattern with that tool that leaves tear drops! I can't explain how but you can also get layout templates that have the width to set you lines to make things straight or you can make one yourself for each tool. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Things are not the way they used to be; One and all, we got to face reality now Bob Marley - 'Natural Mystic'

Hey CharlieR, I assume you are meaning the sliding knot? If so you can either tie it over a leather collar OR tie it directly onto the bolo by taking a matchbook cover or similar piece of card board and making a small collar then braid over that fairly tight. Once you are done remove the cardboard collar and the knot will be able to slide then. That is how I usually do it. Hope this helps. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Soul Shake Down Party

While agreeing with Darcy I might add that I am basically a beginner saddle maker. I have been braiding for a few years now but as far as saddle making I'm still trying to get through my fifth! I started out making my first one for myself and by myself (and it shows!). Still have it. It is on a Bowden tree. I used Tandy leather. It alone convinced me to wait for a hand made tree! and to use high quality leather. I learned a lot on my first saddle and have continued learning on each saddle since. I still have a "day job" driving over the road so it may be a while before I reach saddle number 20, 30, etc. BUT I do not want a bunch of 'so-so' saddles out there with my name on them as I build my rep. At the very least I can say that all the saddles out there with my name are made out of the finest materials I could find! They ain't the best put together pieces of gear and they SURE ain't the prettiest but they are made of quality materials and more or less at MY expense even though I sold them. (because of the time it takes me to get them out the door since I still drive). Quality vs quantity? I chose quality! Also, using a better tree and better leather does make you a bit more careful. If you are still going to cut corners because of finances use less expensive leather. You can still build a useable rig out of lighter weight quality leather and save money that way or by mid grade leather. My handful of customers all know that, though, they could pay someone else for a better saddle, I am conscientious about the craft and would rather cut up and throw away and sart over that to send out something sub standard! So they wait for me to build their saddles! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Simmer Down

It also appears that were a horse to gather its self it would not fill that gap! Also the way cutters gather their horses by lifting a rib ON ONE SIDE out of the way for the horse to shoot through, even the slight curve they try to set the horse in to go the other way would INCREASE the bridging on the inside thus the points would dig in deeper and HINDER the horse from doing wht the riders desire! Horses are sooooo forgiving! Cutters want the seat to be oversize so that they have room to move and for their weight to shift. Imagine the weight of a 180 pound adult sloshing around in that seat. Also, the push on the horn concentrate the momentum and weight of the rider THROUGH the saddle horn, down the swells into the bars and into the horses front legs. Not a pretty pic and I'm again feeling sorry for the horse. 2 hours loping in a 60 - 80 foot circle warming up and then serious work! Best of burden comes to mind! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Every time I hear the crack of the whip!!... My blood runs cold

Got a call from one of my buddies, Jake Wiggins and he had been working with a fellow starting cutting horses. He pointed out that actually a cutter is in that saddle and worked for hours before they are taken in to cut. They may have "the cow worked out of 'em" by loping in a warm up pen for 2 hrs straight! Same with the reiners. So there is not really a "arena saddle" vs "long day saddle" but the back yard horse that only gets ridden lightly by the middle aged mom. They can handle a saddle that bridges. He also pointed out that although cutters talk about 'collecting the horse" it is not "rounding up" in the usual sense. They want the horse to have its face vertical, and turned towards the cow even when the horse is sideways to the cow. They also want it to lift its inside ribcage so it can shoot out the opposite way so it will also need to be rocked back on its outside hind or "sucked up". This is what the cutters call "rounding". So filling that gap caused by bridging is only momentary and MOST of the time the horse will be ridden with the bars bridging. A good example of how uncomfortable the horses are: Jake is kinda like a secret weapon for Punk Carter and a few others out here. While everyone else is loping the snot out of their horses in the warm up pen Jake will be just getting the horse even on both sides. Lightly trotting the horse and stopping it and doing little roll backs and turns while remaining calm and relaxed. The first time he got Punk to not have his "warm up" guys get on this mare right after Jake got finished with them, rather, just let Jake relax it and even it up, it scored it's highest score to date! I think that the concept of having as much bar contact as possible at all times really applies even to "performance" horses and perhaps more so. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - One Drop

So Denise, I am looking at the cantles in figure 8A and 8B. And let's say for the sake of this discussion (and my ideal fantasy) that you two make all my saddle trees! To me looking at the pics it appears that 8B is more in line with what I would like to ride and that it will facilitate placing the rider more on his hips, with a rounded or tucked lower back. The face of the cantle is less steep. If I wanted all my trees, regardless of cantle height to have a cantle face like 8B how would I order them from you. For the sake of example lets say a 3 1/2 tall cantle, a 4" tall cantle ant the 4 1/2" tall cantle pictured. Everything else is the same with each saddle tree except cantle height (horn, swells etc.) Is it simply a matter of ordering the 3 1/2" cantle with 3/4" dish @35 degrees the 4" cantle with 1" dish @35 degrees and the 4 1/2" cantle with 1 1/4" dish @35%? By Jove, I think I've got it! Then it would be possible for me to have consistency in the feel of my seat no matter what cantle height was ordered. From what I am gathering without this knowledge each tree ordered with a different cantle height would come with a different cantle face unless I was able to specify. I know your motto but would you say that is how it is for the majority of the saddle makers out there even if they order a custom tree? Unless they specify how much dish and only specify cantle height in their order, each tree will have a different cantle face!?! I'd really like to add the consistency of having the ability to order trees that will help me build a consistently good saddle. Consistently! (just had to say it one more time!!!!) Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - WAR

Greg, I guess that truly is the question. What really got me thinking on all this is that I learned to ride a cutter by riding an old retired horse that was sway back! He was catty as all get out but a bit too chargy for a cutter and I think that sucking him back was what I was supposed to be learning but hearing everybody around me talk about them "rounding up" and "sucking back" when I'm on a sway back horse really got me to thinking. Back to the topic, I never answered Denise; I am using your definition of a Taylor cantle from your PDF. I had never heard of them down here in TX. Things like this have been a big issue for me as I am a fairly observant kinda person and I analyze things a lot. I didn't grow up riding and when I finally got into a position to start I learned from a friend that was taking lessons and he'd show me some things he had learned but couldn't explain why! So from the get go I wanted to know why, not just how. I started braiding about the same time and then it lead to leather work and saddlery. In dealing with folks down here I find that most are NOT knowledgeable enough to really make a custom order and truly know why they are requesting what ever it is they are requesting. In my current profession I drive for an Audio/Video company and we supply gear and technicians for corporate events. My boss says his BEST customers are the ones that don't know exactly what they want because he can steer them towards what WE do best and they are thrilled when we can deliver exactly what we said! HHMMMM! Maybe I can do it with these Yahoos down here and I'll be a HERO! (and then woke up....but it was a lovely dream while it lasted) Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Punky, Reggae Party

Ok I may be getting a little off topic but a thread about trees is destined to include horsemanship. There are a bunch of cutters and reiners around these parts. There is a cutting every weekend down the road from me and I go there and I have ridden with some of the folks there and I also did a stint hanging out with the reiners a few years back but they are all about 30 mi. or so from here so I had to let that go. Actually Weatherford Tx is where all the cutters live but Doug Jordan was my neighbor when I first moved here. When a horse "rounds" up or even when it collects it is happening from the rear forward. When they get "catty" they are shooting their hind legs up underneath them. WAY up underneath them and they are rounding their LOWER back just like we do when we tuck our hips. As sophisticated humans we get to where we can hardly do that and have to train to be able to continually tuck our hips into old age. Third world folks squat like that all their lives. But the point I guess I am making is: Where is the "bridging" happening when a horse is standing square? It seems that the bridging is in about the middle of the tree yet the horse rounds from the rear forward so it may not really fill that gap. Cutting is kinda about training the horse to move backward in a round about way. When a horse backs you see the hips drop away from the saddle as the horse rounds. I would love to see a bare tree strapped on to a horse that is trained to sit up. Then the horses back is as round as it can get. Most cutting horses spend a LOT of time being uncomfortable during training. If the bars are bridging and if the horse is not filling that gap then when the horse lowers its front end and its rear legs shoot forward and its hip drop away from the saddle a lot of pressure is going to be placed on the point where the bars are contacting alongside the withers along with the rider pushing on the saddle horn to transfer his weight and momentum through the horses feet. When I watch cuttings that seems to be more of what i see. Maybe I'm just seeing things wrong....again! Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Jammin'

Spar Urethane. Vaya Con Dios, Alan Bell Bob Marley - Hammer