JAM

Update: Redid the ground seat for the second time (good cantle binding practice - ) I made it dead flat side-to-side from the back of the stirrup slots to the cantle corners (even added a few mm at the top of each bar to make the seat a bit wider and more quick-drop at the edges), with a long sloopy arc from the handhole down into the center of the seat and back up to the cantle binding. It's very pretty, but atrociously uncomfortable for me (I wouldn't be able to ride in it for five minutes). Also, from the seat-bones mold I got back from her, her ischia are very close (like a man's), and the left one is a little deeper and a cm forward of the right one - so I made a gentle compensation for that in the seat. No way to know if that helped, but it seems to have not hurt anything. Anyway, her pronouncement was "Have saddle, will ride - 100% improvement - :thumbsup: " So I got it right (for her). Now I'm flummoxed. My reputation is in the seat I build. I've always built the seat that works for me, and all my customers (until this one) have raved about it. This one broke the mold, and now I'm jittery about my seats. I think in the future I may add a seat-bones mold to my DL profiles cards package, so I can get profiles for both the horse's back and the rider's seat. It's really not a good thing to be unbuttoning and opening up a nice, tight, new saddle (and I hate cantle bindings! ) Thanks for all your help, everyone.

Such terrific help, thanks to all of you! I will use all of your ideas. I've seen the Schleese videos, along with lots of other research into rider anatomy and male vs female - all very helpful. All that information helped me to develop the seat I build (the one that works for me, and that has worked for every other customer I've ever had) - and it all helped me understand why I couldn't ride comfortably in a dead-flat cowboy saddle seat. But it only stands to reason that eventually I will have a customer who can't ride in the seat that works for me - so now I'm making modifications without her direct real-time input. After the saddle came back the first time I sent her a wad of thermoplastic plastic stuff (Equimeasure - the thermoplastic sheet for taking the shape of a horse's back - which doesn't work so well for the horse's back but works great for a seat-bones mold) and had her warm it up and sit in it in her saddle so I could see how close her ischia are. Much closer together than mine - more like a man's, which explains a lot. I made the longitudinal "crown" in the seat gentler and flatter, but it didn't work. I suspect she needs the dead-flat cowboy seat that I find so uncomfortable She says she wants the seat "concave, not convex". So I will ask her the anatomy/injury questions, and ask her for templates of a saddle she likes, and hope the third time is the charm. With all the shipping back and forth, I'm losing money on this saddle now (but I'm getting lots of cantle-binding practice). I will post my results here when this third iteration is done. Thanks again! Julia

Thanks, Ron - that's a good idea. I hadn't thought of that, and I will give it a try. No doubt that would be a bigger help than pictures. Julia

I'm having a problem with a customer's saddle - specifically, I can't seem to get the seat right for her. I've built maybe 30 saddles, and this is the first time the customer has not said "The seat is terrific, comfy, perfect, etc". In fact the seat in this customer's saddle nearly crippled her. It's on its way back to me for re-shaping a second time, and I've got to get it right. A seat that works for me has always worked for my other customers, but this one, for the first time, doesn't even come close. Apparently I put too much crown in it. I hate to take it down to dead flat because flat is a shape I can't ride in and can't get a feel for. I'd appreciate any advice or ideas. BTW, all of my customers, including this one, are too far away to come in for a fitting, so I have to do the seat shaping long-distance and just hope it works. Has any one else had this problem? Julia McCormack McCormack Hill Leather www.mhleather.com

Davidbane, it's been many years since I started this thread. I just now came across it while randomly cruising around the forums. Since I posted this in 2008, I've built probably 25 custom saddles for customers, and 95% of them are 3B, single-rig, 3/4 or 5/8, on custom trees built for the horse. All are very happy. One thing I've never given much thought to is cinch width, which you bring up. Wider makes sense. I recommend mane hair if it can be found, and angora or mohair if not. But wider - there's a good idea!

I don't know what it's called, but I sure like the edge it makes! Julia

Personally, I wouldn't use it. If you send it back for an exchange, you'll probably get another just like it. I'd look for a better treemaker - there are lists of them on the site here.

OMG, that's gorgeous and special. I believe I need one. How do I get my name on your list? Julia

Fine sandpaper, followed by paste wax.

This is one of my saddles, with a 3/4 single rig and a mane hair cinch, probably 5" wide, on one of my horses (a QH).

I can't tell you why, but all my personal saddles are in 3/4 or 5/8 single, and I have no problem on any of my QHs. My customers all take 3/4 (the brave ones go for 5/8) and they have no problems with saddle creep (they have a variety of breeds). Maybe it's the trees - I only build with Rod Nikkel trees - or maybe horses' shapes haven't changed as much as everyone thinks. But it works for me and my customers. I know there are cowboys and operations in the west, Nevada and Oregon, who won't ride in anything but a CF rig. Perhaps they buy/breed their horses for that old ranch horse body type, and all their horses tend to be peas-in-a-pod for backs and body types, but CF works for them. Now that I think about it, I can finish up riding and find my cinch has loosened to where it's barely snug, and the saddle hasn't moved/slipped/slid at all. So maybe it's the tree.

Gosh, I don't know if I combined comments - I don't remember. I tend to go off topic. I am of that same school - if you can't keep it snug, take it off. But if you take the back cinch off a full or 7/8 saddle (or leave it loose), you don't have much or any pull down on the back of the saddle, which is why I like the single rig.

Very nice! And lovely workmanship! Mount it on the end of a bench and you've got a great saddler's stitching horse. Julia

I use the "uni-ball Impact Stick Bold Point Gel Pens, 12 Silver Ink Pens (60658)" from Amazon - a dozen for $25. Use them all the time. To remove the ink, even days later, you use a wet (not dripping, but more than damp) terrycloth to wipe or lightly rub off the marks. It's a little harder to remove from the grain side, but it does remove. The trick is using enough water in the rag to lift the ink. Julia

LOL - wow, yes! My customers tend to be familiar with 7/8 double inskirts because that's what's in their factory saddle. I really like inskirts, myself, although I hate doing re-lines on them <ggg>. But I spend a lot of time with my customers, planning, while they wait for my treemaker to get to their tree. I do a lot of educating - not pushing, just educating - in rigging placement and types, history, function, saddle and riding styles, all that stuff, which is almost always new information for them. They usually end up in a single O-ring rig . Down the road they have all been very happy with their choice. When I get the rare customer who knows exactly what they want and why, I'm happy to build that for them, but I also really enjoy getting to know my customers and having those "Ah-hah!" eye-opening email conversations with them. When I make a spec saddle it's pretty much always a 3/4 single O-ring rigging. The 3/4 placement isn't as far out of most folks familiarity as a 5/8 or CF would be, and the single O-ring is pretty much perfect aesthetically and traditionally for the old-time 3B that is my specialty. Brycrew, I've personally never had a problem with lack of swing in my stirrup leathers over a 3/4 O-ring rig (or a 5/8, for that matter). But I'm curious - why are you thinking about putting a back cinch on a 3/4 rig? Julia www.mhleather.com

Hi, Oltoot, I don't make many ranch saddles - my customers are largely arena and trail riders - and I do mostly 3/4 and 5/8 ring riggings, with just the occasional 7/8 double flat-plate if a customer requests it. Personally I prefer the single ring riggings - I find them easier to build, lighter weight, and less leather under the leg. But that's just my personal experience, and I haven't been building saddles for 30 years or building ranch saddles; there is a lot more I can learn about that venue. So, I'm curious, why exactly have you found the ring riggings harder to repair or more interfering with stirrup leathers? Julia www.mhleather.com

I went out and found a suitable rock that evening, wrapped it in rawhide, and gave it a test. Yup, it works! I love homemade tools

Very helpful, thanks!

Thank you for this idea, Michael! I am going to look for the sharpeners you describe and try it! Julia

Love it!!!!

No, I'm talking about the two styles of handhelds, like the ones in the picture (from my Weaver catalog). Is it one of these you want to know about? They both work great - I use them a lot.

If you're talking about the pull skivers - not the sideways potato-peeler skivers - I have several and use them a lot. The best ones are the silver ones that you can get from Weaver. Tandy used to carry those same silver ones, but when they re-engineered a lot of their tools, they screwed up in the skiver (their new one is black). You can, however, save that new black skiver - the problem is the two small pegs that go in the holes in the blade. The pegs are a hair too big, and they hold the edge of the blade away from the bed of the skiver, so the blade digs in and is useless. Take a needle file and file away the edges of those two small pegs until you can look down the edge of the blade and see it lying dead flat against the bed. Then it will work the way it is supposed to. I need to order more from Weaver - I assume Weaver still carries the original silver ones (they are sintered metal, not plastic). PS Jeremiah doesn't approve of skivers - I doubt he will ever make them. Julia

Barry King tools are superb, and half the price of Bob Beard or Jeremiah. I've got tools from all three, and I always end up using the Barry Kings. Julia

Agree with Goldshot Ron, but I always use 1 inch rivets just to be sure I have enough stem. If you're going to buy copper rivets, keep in mind that 1 inch works for everything, but the shorter ones will be too short for many projects.

Size 9 copper rivets, and you can get them from almost anywhere (Tandy Leather Factory carries them, as do Sheridan and Weaver and pretty much everyone else).