K-Man

Here's my experience(s) with both machines. The 7-ton has a cutting area of 12" x 12". This worked fine for the vast majority of holster and similar-sized dies I was using to cut out of the leather. However, I found that the thickest/heaviest leather it could cut through would be about 9 oz, and that was from the grain side. If you were cutting from the flesh side, it struggled (or I did) to get through it. The 7-ton is easier to manuever/move around than the 15-ton. It weighs approximately 250 pounds. I made my own table for it, following pics of one I had seen on an eBay listing. I used a 30-gallon, 150 psi air compressor with the 7-ton clicker. The 15-ton has a cutting area of 12" x 24". This extra area allows for larger dies to be easily cut from the leather. It will also cut through the thicker/heavier leather a lot easier - obviously because of the double-the-tonnage pressure being applied. The 15-ton is NOT easy to move around. It weighs approximately 575 pounds. I use the table offered by Tippmann. We recently moved it from our old shop to our current shop, and we used an engine lift to do it. So, make sure you know where you want it placed before it gets there, because that's pretty much where it will stay for the duration. I use a 60-gallon, 135 psi air compressor with it. (Actually I can run both clickers off of the same compressor, going simultaneously.) Hope this information helps.

I have both their 7-ton and 15-ton. There's some significant differences between the two and what they can do. What are you looking to cut out?

I've been asked to make a mechanic's belt, and am looking for the actual belt buckle apparatus. It's a two-prong set up that's imbedded between the leather. You can see an example here: http://www.aandtleather.com/MechanicsBelt.htm Anyone have any suggestions on where to find the buckle part?

Ed: Sounds like you've found what you're looking for. Best of luck to you.

I have a custom knifemaker local to me who is willing to make custom round/head knives. There would be different options, and thus different price levels for them. The blade would be made from 01 or D2 steel, with a flat grind. The basic knife would have micarta grips/handles. Other options would be available - such as different types of grip material, file work, damascus, thicker blade, to name but a few. This would be a chance to own a quality, durable knife that would far exceed the ones I've seen offered in such places as TLF, Hide Crafter, etc. The price for the basic knife style would be ~$100. The knives could also be used for presentation gifts such at shows for category winners, etc. I'm having one made from damascus with a india stag grip/handle. Once I get it, I'll be sure and post a picture. I wanted to query the folks here and see if there might be any real interest in owning a quality knife.

I agree, Johanna, that sufficient outlets are necessary. There are approximately 10 - 110v outlets and 2 - 220v outlets around my shop .

Go2Tex: The taxing and related issues can be a bit much to digest at times. That's why I keep in touch with my accountant and my attorney - to help me keep it all straight. :scratchhead: At least that's what I pay them to do....

Lighting is an issue with me as well. Originally there were only two 8' florescent lights up on the ceiling - ~15 feet up. We've slowly been adding additional florescent lighting and a little bit of track lighting. I'd welcome any suggestions in that respect.

Jeff Mosby at www.greyghostgraphics.com can do that for you. His price is $35 and up. Don't know how that compares to something similar though. I've had him make a couple of maker's stamps for me and I'm very satisfied with those.

I use Hermann Oak exclusively. So I take mine to the local Tandy Leather Factory, and they purchase it at a per pound price.

For the occasional gun, I'd recommend Ring's Blue Guns. They manufacture the blue training guns. Their website is: www.blueguns.com. Another source for blue guns is this place: www.miragetechnologies.net. If you need something aside from what you can find there, let me know and I can give you a couple of other places that might have what you're looking for.

I use a Tippmann 7-ton clicker at this shop. You can see it somewhat in the fourth picture above (under the Coca-Cola bottle cap/next to the large air compressor). I use the hydraulic press you're asking about to mold/press the holster around the gun. It's the one offered by Weaver leather. You can use it as a clicker, but I think it would be kind of tuff to utilize it that way if you're cutting leather of any substantial thickness.

AKRob: You're correct - the price for the dummy gun is far better than what you would pay for a genuine version (~$45 vs ~$450). The quality of the detail on the Duncan aluminum guns has declined dramatically. If you're not molding holsters with a great amount of detail, then it's not as much of an issue. We mold ours with a fair amount of detail, so the Duncan guns (newer versions) do not work for us. A word of caution on the Red guns - they've got a history of being "out of spec." I've only got one of the red guns, and it's worked fine for me. nomi: The movie prop guns are certainly a possibility. I've used a couple of them myself. They average about $100 in cost, and are usually set up to fire blanks.

Here's some pics of my shop: I have 1000 sq feet of total space. We built a small office (approx 125 sq feet), and left the rest open to set up the work areas. The first pic is our sign, which is adjacent to the 10 ft roll up door. The display cabinet area acts as our initial greet of the customers. The second pic shows one of our work benches. At the far end of that, we have a small sink and hot water heater. To the right of that area is where we have all of our shipping supplies. The wall shows some of the dies we use, and I have a 7-ton clicker at this shop. (I have a 15-ton clicker also at the old shop.) The leather we use is located on a 4x8 table "behind" (center of the room) the user at the clicker. The next pic shows our three sewing machines (all Artisans - two 3000's, one 618) and some of the dummy guns we use. It also shows one of the 4x8 tables we have. (There are two 4x8 that sit side by side.) The next pic shows the main workbench area. I've used unfinished kitchen cabinets that I got from Lowe's for the construction of it. (I usually got slightly damaged versions in order to save a few dollars. For example, I got the cabinet top for 75% off because of some slight damage.) I've used peg board to hang some of the tools I use on a regular basis. The next pic shows the workbench which sits directly to the left. Again, I used the unfinished kitchen cabinets here for the base. In the background is the area where I do all of the dyeing. We also hung some plastic behind the peg board which goes all the way to the floor and surrounds the table to catch any splashing of the dye. The last pic shows the 2' x 8' sign that sits on the end of the building that we are in. It faces a heavily travelled roadway, and lights up at night. It's brought in a significant amount of visitors to the shop. Of course, the most important piece of equipment sits in the corner - the Coke machine. It's about 30 years old and hums right along, keeping everything nice and cold. I'm a somewhat avid coke collector, as you can see by some of the decorations on the walls. On the wall, just to the right of the main workbench, is a 6' x 6' sign. The way the shop is set up currently has proven to be very functional in a lot of different aspects. We can easily greet visitors; we have various workstations; the work flow seems to function and follow basic lines. We have a very active business and offer a lot of different items to the customer. We do primarily holsters and accessories for concealed carry, and offer true custom work.

All of those dummy guns that he has/had came from Duncan's. They're from the early days when Duncan's used to provide an excellent replica. I stopped buying from Duncan's over a year ago because of the poor quality that they now provide. I bought five of the aluminum guns from the guy mentioned above on eBay. It was a positive transaction.

I cheat - I have the folks at Hermann Oak do the moss finish for me. :biggrin: It costs a little bit more per square foot, but compare that to the time that would be spent applying a finish otherwise, it's well worth it. Outside of that, I've heard many reports of folks having great success with the gum trag. With respect to type of dye used - I use Angelus dyes. They penetrate well and generally have a better consistency. I buy the dye by the gallon direct from Angelus, and let me tell you if you don't already know, it is substantially cheaper than from TLF - like $35/gallon cheaper. There is a $25 hazmat fee added to each shipment. I buy a total of 4 gallons per order, so I end up only paying $6.25 per gallon for that hazmat fee. You can mix the color choice, i.e., brown, black, etc. In addition, I use their acrylic finish - great stuff. I don't remember whether or not you have to have a business license or tax ID in order to buy from them, but I would recommend to folks to check it out.

Sure, I could see tearing a piece of 3-4 oz (2.5-4.5 actual) that's been grooved, as well as doing a piece of 5-6 oz (4.5-6.5 actual) with a set of vice grips. I think a couple of things would contribute to the ability to do that. One is the quality/tannage of the leather. The other is the depth of the groove. I've made over 3,000 holsters in the last few years, always grooved the line for stitching and never, ever had a failure of any kind. Any stitching above the grooved line is more apt to suffer failure or potential abrasion, as reported by others here, long before the leather itself fails IMHO.

Kate: What ounce weight and type of leather were you using in the instance where you could tear it after using the groover?

Ed: Sent you an email. With respect to the noise level of the 15-ton clicker and air compressor, it will mostly depend on the air compressor you get. I recently had to purchase a new air compressor, and doubled the size of what I previously had. When the compressor is running, I sometimes cannot hear the phone ringing. My shop is 1000 sq feet, with essentially metal walls. The compressor does not run for very long - usually just for a minute while it rebuilds its air pressure. I would guess that the price for the basic four-sided dies like you describe will be relatively inexpensive at Tippmann (compared to other die makers). The price generally increases when you start putting bends and angles into the design. I'm getting ready to order some more dies myself. With respect to hanging the one die over the edge for the larger piece of suede, you can do that. However, I think you'll eventually find that it would be easier (and ultimately more cost effective) to order a die that's the size you need.

Not disputing Bob Beard's theory - but if you follow that line of thought, aren't you creating a weak point in the leather then when you use a swivel knife to cut the lines for tooling?

Anyone ever heard by using this tool that you're creating a weak point on the leather/item? Apparently there's a holster maker who claims that by using the stitch groover, you're creating that. I could see if you had a piece of leather that was 2-3 ounce in weight, and by using this tool on it, you're going to gouge into a good portion of the thickness. But if you're using a piece of leather that's thicker than that, I have a hard time believing the use of the stitch groover is going to create a weak point, at least enough to be concerned about.

Art: Thanks for the reply. After I posted here, I did some googling and finally found some info earlier this morning from a couple of sources. It is the American Straight Needle. I found a source for the manual from the link in the sewing machine section of the forum here. The 3" throat does concern me a bit, and I've been trying to think of ways I can make it work. Not sure if I'll be successful in that respect.... I already have three Artisan machines - two 3000's and one 618, and I'm very happy with their stuff. I was just hoping to find a needle and awl machine at a good price. The difference in the stitch appearance alone makes a big difference in quality perception. I'll give it some more consideration and see what happens. Thanks again for your help.

Have the opportunity to purchase one for a "reasonable price." The machine currently belongs to a knife maker, who in his words, "is quite frankly scared of the machine." In any event, I got the chance to take a look at it this afternoon. It appears to be in really exceptional shape. The leather belts are in great shape - no cracking, etc. It runs off 110. We turned it on and it hummed to life with no problems. It has spi adjustment. The threading is nothing like I've seen before. The presser foot lift is right at about 1". Did not stitch any leather, as he did not have any and couldn't remember the proper threading. Did not have an owner's manual. Only had one bobbin for it. It had recently (just prior to his ownership) been completely overhauled. There was no real rusting or chipping of paint anywhere that I could see. He's only tried to use it about 5-6 times in the last year that he's had it. The only type of "model number" that I could located was on the backside of the machine and was S61. Does anyone here have any info or direction you could steer me to get more info about the machine? Are the leather belts and bobbins hard to come by? What would you consider a "reasonable price?" Any direction on possibly finding an instruction/owner's manual? Thanks for your help.

Great pictures - thanks for sharing! Very humbling though to look at all of that work and the details adhered to - simply amazing stuff.

Soybomb: I have some of those clips (1728) if you want some. Send me an email or pm and I can get some to you.