bruce johnson

I sure agree with that, Julia. Kind of like a lot of things (skirt riggings come to mind), the strainers get a bad reputation because they have been poorly installed on production saddles. The fiberglass seat strainers are a really poor piece in a lot of them. Either type of strainer allows for clicker cutting and pattern skiving buld ups for consistant shaped seats. Whether they are consistantly good or consistantly bad I'll leave alone. I have sat in good strainers and all leathers, bad strainers and bad all leathers. The strainer will allow you to get closer to the wood. On a tree like a roper wide through the waist, that will be as comfortable as straddling a flat 2x12. Not as much of an issue in a narrow and thinner Tidwell bar in a cutter or barrel racer. A strainer and one build up piece can make those sit pretty decent. The important thing is the shape of the seat. On the wider bars you can make a narrower seat by building up layers and shaping to pinch the peak. Even though you are further off the wood, you are not split. You have more contact all the way up your leg - more secure seat and you probably feel closer to the horse unless built up to an extreme. That type seat can be built on a strainer or an all leather - the maker's skill and experience has more to do with it at that point than strainer or not. Most of the time I use a strainer. I use Bill Bean's. I feel like I can use at least one less piece of build up, and being a heavier gauge they are strong. There is some lore on building and shaping ground seats. I usually do mine in one sitting. I skive around the three sides with the crank skiver to get the rough skiving done. Rough up the grain side, apply cement and let it dry. Apply another coat and let it dry. Then I dunk the first piece until wet, dry the glue side, hit it with some heat, and stick it down. Do the shaping while the next piece is soaking. Rough up the exposed flesh side of the glued down piece and dry/heat/stick/shape the second. I was taught to do it that way in one sitting for leather or strainer seats so the leather would all shrink at about the same rate and stay as a unit. The theory was letting a piece dry and shrink, then adding the second piece over that to shrink at its rate would make them more prone to delaminate. Thoughts or experiences anyone?

Looks to me like everything lines up pretty well. The centers look good, and the weave is parallel to the to and bottom margins. I'd say the stamping is fine. As far as using 8 oz. I do it. I gouge a channel in the middle for the fold. Then if you skive the edges down, they look neater and thinner. I line with pig or goat and then my pockets are 3/4 oz.

Frontpost, It is at the Clarion Hotel off 136, just west of 465.

We'll be there probably Thurs night/maybe Fri morning. Leaving Sunday morning. Coffee and doughnuts huh? I'm good with that.

Will, I can't make the minimums and meet the new criteria for wholesale at Smith Brothers anymore. They are the ones who get that style made, and they wholesale to places like NRS, Willards, etc. If Smith Brothers is backordered then the others might be low or out too. The phone operators can only tell you what they have been told about expected dates. When they do come in, the big accounts get them and rightfully so. The whole shipment might be gone because you are too low on the list. Last year preChristmas I got some late orders mid Nov and figured I could do them. Called and Smith Bros and NRS were out. Anticipated dates would have worked but I knew better than to count on it. Kings sent me a couple they had sitting to insure that some of the shipped out cans were going to be here. I called Jeanie at Willards and she had a lot of them. Sounded like a family run outfit and I can appreciate that. She was very easy to deal with, and cost and shipping were more than reasonable. It sounds like she likes to keep a pretty good inventory. I ordered extra to have more on hand than usual too. Nothing against Smith Brothers (I have dealt with them almost from their start) and NRS has been good too, but you are talking to phone operaters. I have been a guest at Kings party in Sheridan, and Willards were friendly on the phone and went out of their way to get them to me.

I used to get mine from Smith Brothers directly. Smith Brothers changed their wholesale deal around a little and made it harder for a guy like me to deal with them. It is not uncommon for them to be backordered, and then National Ropers Supply was the next choice. Previous experience taught me to not rely on either one for their estimated date to have them in stock. Before Christmas they were both out. I ordered what I could from Kings in Sheridan, WY. I ordered the rest from Willards (http://www.willardropes.freeyellow.com/bags.htm) and Jeanie was absolutely great to deal with too. I hit a deal on a shop going out of business right after that and got a good stockpile. When they are gone, Willards and Kings will be first call. If I gotta pay retail, it might as well be with folks I like.

Maybe your area is different, but the sharpening shops around here don't do the job I can on any leather tool. For one they don't get anything quite as sharp as they need to be. They are good on butcher knives and stuff like that, but like you said, you'd rather have someone who knows what leather tools are for. If the guy can park his ego and you take the splitter in to show him how they work and what to do, then you might be alright. I had a guy email me about buying his Osborne Chase pattern because it wouldn't split anymore. Ends up the sharpening shop put a 1/8" bevel on the top side of the blade. My thoughts would be to send it to Herb French in Sheridan, WY if you are going anywhere. He resharpens and makes leather tools. He knows how one is supposed to be. Herb also wrote a little book on sharpening leather tools. Vandy at Sheridan Leather sells it. Costs about 10 bucks and I think worth it easily. I have had some stuff that Herb probably did the blades on, and ready to go. Herb's book, diamond stones, green rouge, and a big lens have probably advanced me more than anything.

David, There are a few who will get each point to come out exactly. Almost everyone will have some points that don't quite meet. A trick for fixing that - Get a flat bladed screwdriver the thickness of the stamp leg. Use it like a stamp to extend the line of the legs and make them meet at an exact point on the line. For a first time you made the centers line up very well in a hard basket pattern to do that on. Good job.

DJ, I make mine from doubled 7/9 oz latigo , and sew in a popper at the bottom. The popper extends about 4" past the doubled latigo. The popper also adds a little weight to the end to hang good and be able to slide one when you need to. I skive the top end and sandwich it between the two main body pieces. I sew them up and use water loops for the bit end. After they are made up, I 10 second dip them in olive oil and let them drip. It gives them a body, weight, and feel I like. I used to make 5/8 and 3/4 widths. Never failed, if all I had left was 5/8, they wanted 3/4, if all I was 3/4, they wanted 5/8. Now I make them 11/16". I can sell them either way - full 5/8 or scant 3/4. I cut them the length of the side, tail end to the head of the hide. I keep them paired, and sell them by length. Some people like a 7 footer for babies, and others like 8 footers for big horses or showing a cutter. I just mark them for length and hang them up. Here's a testimonial a customer left on my blog - "You make the most awesome reins. I’ve won quite a bit of money NRCHA with them." She is understating things a bit on her end, she's a campaigner and as a non-pro she has trained I think 4 Supreme Reined Cowhorses in the NRCHA.

Are the ProCrafters the dark colored ones that Hidecrafters sells/sold?

I am with Chris on this. Bob Brenner's book "How to Establish Prices for the Saddle Maker or Leather Worker" is the absolute best $40 I ever spent. Don't get hung up on his prices in the examples, use the principles and make up some worksheets to figure your own.

Richard, I had someone ask me a few months ago about contacting him too. The spelling is Clay Hamil. The only info I could find for contact was that he was in Montalba Tx and phone number - (903) 549-2384.

Bob, Tying always looked kind of cool, and I'll bet it is a rush to be in the middle of it. Glad to get a second on the strap. I figured that was it, but then my buddy has a picture from a warmup pen where the guy had splint boots hanging on it. I am claiming victory now, even though it may be a dual purpose strap.

Kevin, I WIN!! Crown for me. That was my bet. Thanks. I go back to the string on the dees and tuck it under the breast collar days. Coolest second loop I ever saw was at the NFSR in Laramie in '83. I think that was the last year they had it there. All Roy Cooper had to do was catch in the last round for the average and the year end, and mailed one from the line about 27 feet and missed. He had the second rope up and going before the first one lined out. Snagged with the second loop and I think still placed in the round. Haven't got the tack collar done yet. He is supposed to get his buddy's dad's old tack collar and bring it over for a pattern.

I got this in a few days ago for some replacement tugs. The question a couple of us have it what is the narrow strap for on right side of the front? Hang splint boots off? Inquiring minds here....

I had a colt buck around with me, felt the "pop" and figured I had pulled my groin again. You do it once and it is never the same. Got him stopped and grabbed the fence and let him walk out from under me. When I went to take a step I felt the bones shift there in the middle and knew it was kind of a bad deal. I had broken my pelvis still in the saddle kind of like Don Butler did. It took a while to heal up, and I went back to starting some colts, but never had that "spark" to push one. About a year later I had one long trotting out on a levee by a rice field. A pheasant flew up, colt grabbed his ---, and I made about 3 jumps - each one a little looser. I hit the ground like a sack of rocks. When I got some air, got up, and could walk, I felt like King Kong. Nothing broke, and the confidence was back.

I am posting this reply under duress. Someone who has seen my shop wants everyone to know I did not always have a cool looking Barry King glass slicker. I will be outed if I don't show it. I started off with a wooden one, and broke it. Hearing the old tale about cocobola dust being toxic I followed EPA/OHSA/HazMat protocol and properly disposed of the pieces. I have since been informed that is not necessarily the case. Looking around the shop (and keeping with the title of this thread) I found an old piece of LDPE cutting board. I cut a slab, ran the router around 3 sides to round it over. The router actually left a nick free smooth edge requiring no additional buffing or anything. It really worked pretty good and I drilled a hole to hang it up. I was always going to get around to making one from new cutting board that didn't have punch holes and dings on it, but never did. It has character. I used it exclusively a good 3-4 years, and still do for some stuff. It is good for swell covers. If you hit a nail or tack and ding the edge, just run the router around or run it over a 120 grit on the bench top belt sander and back to work. I use the glass one on the carving leather, but the plastic one still gets used some if it is handier.

I wet my leather and slick when it is still carrying some moisture but not quite to "tooling dry" look. Too wet and it mushes around, and too dry and it burnishes. I will push the slicker ahead of me in all four directions. I use a light pressure and maybe increase as I go. Just depends on the firmness of the leather. Too hard on soft leather and you can push a wrinkle ahead of you and that's no good. Some guys pull first, and then push as the leather compresses.

Steve, The "chrome elk" is 7/8 cow side. It is a very light gray/almost white color. The color is supposed to be very consistant, unlike some of the pearl apron splits I get that vary from steel gray to blue to white.

I have had Chinamans made out of three different materials. The original was latigo, and Darc is right about the soap and water to bleed out the excess dye. I retired it when I made one out of pearl apron split to use on those wraps. Soap them up good and they slick down pretty well, and have a lot of tensile strength. Ended up and got some dye on it last summer when everything got moved out of the shop, and I made one out of a horse butt. That was good but finally tore a few weeks ago. My new one being made in the next few days should be the ticket. I am making it with "chrome elk" from Sheridan Leather. It is not elk, but is a full grain pearl apron leather. That should prevent the dye rub off problem. I have been looking for this leather for at least 3 years. Nobody seemed to know what I was talking about. I first saw it on a bronc saddle and wondered what that leather was on the bottom of the seat that was not worn out. I called Broken Arrow and he told me it was full grain pearl apron that he got several years ago. Yesterday at Elko, there it was in Vandy's display. BTW, it is reported to make really dandy hornwraps too.

Here is my take on the Elko show. There are about 20 vendors here, and the site is very well laid out. Attendance seemed to be steady this morning for a Friday show in a cow working area. The show continues tomorrow. Seemed to be several folks packing out leather and sacks with smaller items. We did both. A few notables are four sources of stamps and tools - Barry King, Wayne Jueschke, Lonnie with the Hackbarths, and Colleen Watt with Horsehoe brand. Leather suppliers are Sheridan Leather Outfitters, Hide House, and Stevenson-Paxton. Jerry Van Amburg is here with a great selection of exotics. Bob Douglas with his vintage and new tools. Another seller of good used tools as well. Cobra and Artisan are here with machines, Trina Weber with stirrups, and Randy Alexander of Timberline with saddle trees. Hansen's have a large display of silver, and many show specials. Paula and the staff of Capriola's have done a great job of setting up this show, and the social at their shop tonight was another example of the hospitality that has been remarked about. We have enjoyed a few other things in the area too. The Western Folklife Center has the saddle display still up from the poetry gathering. About 20 high end saddles from some of the top contemporary makers, along with handmade bits, bridles and braidwork. Several of us on the forum have seen the pictures, but boys, I have seen 'em live! A nice drive up to Lamoille and up Lamoille canyon into the Ruby mountains this afternoon, still a little snow on top. A great Basque dinner at the Star topped it off. We sure had a good time, and have to leave in the morning. I would sure recommend this show and look forward to coming back again.

I was going to send you cake and ice cream, but then decided it might not last the trip. It was good. So with frosting on my chin and ice cream in my mustache - Happy Birtyhday!!!!

my fellow townsfolk from here in "The Cowboy Capital of the World" ..... Hansen's. They wholesale only though.

Running P (Bigbee's?) is in Alabama I think and pretty recent. They give a few of their trophy saddles away out here, but I haven't got to work on one yet. They look alright on the outside, but you never know what is underneath some of the trophy saddles. Seems like from reading the Ropers Sports News the producers give a fair amount of them away for trophy saddles. Padgitt's might be in the saddle and spur maker's book. I am not close to mine right now.

I looked in the same book as Casey and didn't find anything either. I am looking forward to seeing the pictures. That might help to ID the style and maybe date it by swell shape, fender style, and things like that.