bruce johnson

Brad, Quick and dirty. You first need to figure out the cost of materials, add in incidentals, and then the markup. Thyen you need to estimate the time involved. To cut and make up all the insides, stamp the design, put it together and finish it. If you haven't done them before just like this, you are going to need to make up cutting and tooling patterns too. You need to either add that total cost in, or figure a reasonable number to prorate that time factor out on. Then add up the time and figure what you are worth. There are people that work for beer money and people that do this to pay the mortgage. No right answer.

Penske, I missed this thread until Clint brought it to the front again. We did some of this in the past and my sister-in-law is a serious reined cowhorse person who has shown on several levels for a long time. Mostly she has trained and shown in cutting board type saddles for the last several years. Maybe a little more front rise in the seat than some extreme boards, but a BW kind of front end with a 3-1/2"or so horn kicked forward a little. The biggest difference between the two events is working a single cow down the fence. They want a horn they may need to get ahold of turning a cow on the fence and pulling up out of a tight turn. Some want a little longer seat for some room to maneuver without getting popped up out of there. The reiners seem to like maybe a little lower set of swells and lower horn, and maybe a little shorter seat. With the increasing popularity of some of the ranch horse versatility classes and "Horsemen" contests having steer stopping again, some of the cowhorse people are needing something they can rope out of now too. The beefed up BW ranch cutters with a roping horn and a little bigger bar pattern are getting more popular looks like.

Josh, That is some great work. I am sounding like a broken record, but the progress you have made is just amazing. Good for you on getting orders for another, it won't be the last.

Tim, You are sure welcome. And we know a lot of you are getting leather stuff today. Post them here along with your happy mugshot!

I'll kick it off here. My Christmas Eve present I chose to open came from my pal, critic, and art advisor - Harvey Lutske. Harve came through with a western DVD, but the real treat to be used and cherished is a Bearman maul. I already stepped out and gave her a run down a strip of scrap. Oh Yeah, Ed makes them well. They are a beautiful piece of work, well balanced, and did I mention beautiful? Thanks Harvey and Ed!!

Denise, I figure in round numbers I have about $650 with monels and mohair cinch plus the cost of the tree and silver.

As far as prices, you just have to call him. This stuff is priced all over the scale. He is a cool guy to talk to, honest to a fault about each piece he is going to send you. I have mostly dealt with him at the shows, but have phone ordered a few times too. A few years ago we were at the Sheridan show. Jim Linnel's intro class for the kids just let out, and some of them were wandering through the big room at the trade show. Every kid that came by, Jerry was just handing them a free frog skin. Even if they didn't look his way, he sought them out. "Dude, this is probably the only thing they are going to be able to walk out of this room with. I just gotta do it, man!"

Knut, In theory, I don't think half holes make much of a difference. Some difference when you have a leather that stretches more on one side than the other mostly. A full hole is too much difference then. In reality, the people who want them are ususally putting a 15-1/2" butt into a 16-1/2" seat. They have more slide in the seat than that less than 1/4" stirrup adjustment will ever matter. Even prestretched leathers can have that much diffference from one side to the other after a while, and the riders have compensated all along. It is mostly a mind deal, and if you don't punch them - they will. I used to see guys sharing bronc saddles. One guy would put a piece of Coke cup under the stirrup pin on one side to fine tune adjust it. How much difference do you think a coke cup thickness would make there?? I just use the heaviest leathers I can cram through the Blevins slide. I don't use half leathers - personal deal, but I have seen the wrecks and and field repairs. I don't think a strip of 4 oz latigo glued and sewn on to thinner leather to reinforce is anything more than perfume on a pig. That latigo will stretch more the leathers ever thought about and the glue ain't holding past about the time it takes to sew it down. I use 2" on some short-legged barrel racer and saddles, 2-1/2" on most of the arena saddles, and 3" on the roping/cowboying saddles.

Denise, He is bidding up a few bucks at time picking at q***i to see where that bid is. Even if you bid a high amount, Ebay won't let you raise your own bid if nobody is bidding against you. The only exception is if the seller has a reserve and the bidder hasn't hit it yet. You will see some leading bidders bid again later on in an auction. This is to raise their original maximum bid, in case someone bids a little higher later in the auction. Then there is the whole sniper deal that automatically bids on your behalf with seconds to go. You enter a maximum bid into a sniper program, and it places it just as the auction is winding down. Some live bidder thinks they have it locked up, and with a few seconds to go a sniper computer program bids for someone and you have no chance to raise. Ebay is one of those places you need to know what you are bidding on, set a maximum bid, and let it ride. You just have to take the bidding emotion out of it. Traditional auction bidding strategy is all but gone.

Update on the knife. It is listed as an Enchancree pattern knife by Blanchard. Art is right, it is shown a couple places in Salaman's book as a french pattern knife. I am still hunting the logo and maker, but no joy yet. A bonus of a card case to anyone who can tell me who made M (Hammer silhouette) F knives and when. I have sharpened it up. I did not sharpen the top, just the front and belly. It looks maybe handy to have the top sharp if a guy only had one knife, but I have hooks, rounds, a Philly, and a few other knives to use where I would maybe use the top of this one. As a user, it tracks like a laser. You better be on line to start, cause it ain't gonna jump the tracks. Good and bad. Lay it sideways and skive. It tracks like a laser. It stays on line. The amount of trailing blade is just like a big rudder. All you have to deal with is set the angle and push. Pretty cool.

Harvey, I don't think Hansen's do it. Travis has a buddy Jake, who has been working silver with his dad for a couple years. They are putting out some good stuff, and that might be something he'd be up for. I am thinking with a script name, make it one piece connected and not have to deal with 5 or 6 posts on each individual letter. Long sales this week for Travis, but when he gets home I'll have him call Jake.

Harvey, Right off the top of my head, I don't know who has stock script individual letters. Montana Silver has the individual block letters, but they may be pretty close to the Tandy ones. I am sure someone can do the script in silver, but price-wise, it might get up there. Another option might be an engraved name plate?

I had the best luck heating these with a small torch or candle until the leather chars and you can flake it out.

There is also a tool sometimes sold under the name "swivel tip cutter". I think they use them to chase threads in machine shops maybe? During one of my thumb dislocation deals a couple years ago I borrowed one. It has a trailing blade that swivels in handle, and you hold it somewhat like a pen. It worked alright, and saved me when I was splinted up. The problem with it is the cutting edge is at the back of this trailing swiveling blade. It is kind of like pulling a trailer that cheats badly. You really need to make exaggerated wide sweeping movements for the cuts to end up right. I was glad I had it when I did, but happier once I could maneuver the swivel knives again.

I have just seen pictures of one, but it looks more like the Americans or Champions. The Landis feeds from the front. The others all feed from the back. I don't think the Progressive machines are quite as common as the others.

Thanks from me too, Ray! I guess we see enough knockoff and rebranded stuff over here that we get a little skeptical. Glad to hear that report, and makes me look at that stuff with a whole different perspective. How would you like to be the guy who opened that warehouse door?? Hard to believe someone knew it was there and just let it sit. Glad they did.

I have an old Barnsley plough gauge and an old Dixon and can sure appreciate the quality of both. I was under the impression that Barnsley had closed down some time back. I am seeing that Barnsley stuff on ebay also, and Hale & Co are selling it. I really would doubt if there is that much old stock sitting around. I would like to hear some feedback on this apparently newer stuff too. Ebay feedback might be good, but you do that when you unpack it - not a after a year's use.

Holly, Turning the stirrups first. I would dampen them from the backside and the stirrup leathers too(another place I like to use ProCarve) and then turn them and run something through them. I like to use a 4x4 post section and that will overturn them a bit more than the tradtional broomstick. From the post I would add some weight. Something like 40# or so seems to be about right. Let them dry and then condition and work them a little, then set again with the weight. One of those things that takes about 5 minutes to set up when you are making a saddle, or the customer can fight it the rest of its life if you don't. As far as the softening, one thing to consider is what kind of finish is on the saddle right now. A lot of the finishes on new saddles will repel the conditioners. Some are water soluble, and some are hermetic sealing agents. I would be pretty careful at first. I had someone bring in a light oil finish saddle they tried to oil. Ends up the finish was a pigmented something or other and the leather was not oiled much if at all. Some of the production outfits use these finishes because each saddle is the same color and uniformity sells. Hit this particular finish with oil and it selectively mottles and peels. For conditioners I like Skidmores alright too. My number one favorite is Williams, and I use some Black Rock too. I like Hide Rejuvenator for strap work, but it seems to have more clothes ruboff than the others.

I have question about the Dale Martin saddles after Equibrand took over. I have a relative looking at one with the Greenville stamp on the carrier and cantle back. The seat plate says "Martin Saddlery". It is supposed to be 5 years old, and memory is kind of telling me that is right about when Equibrand bought them. Does anybody know how the newer ones are marked? Thanks,

Even where you get the water makes a difference. The closest hose bib outside my shop freckles up my leather. I am sure it is from rust in that pipe and faucet. I have to bucket water from the kitchen to fill my drowning tub. Water from there hasn't freckled.

Tim, Replied elsewhere too, but I think it is iron spotting to come on that fast. Try oxalic acid or lemon juice and see if that makes them go away. If it is mold, I am biased here, but the listerine in certain casing mix is there to prevent mold. I have also used ProCarve and eliminated a mold problem in my old shop. The ProCarve has an antifungal too.

Richard, I have both stamped and carved lettering into roughout trophy saddles a little bit. The big key for me was to get a good amount of moisture into the leather to get deep pentration. Then do the work when it was more to the dry side than maybe you would would if you were working on the grain side. This was one of those places I think ProCarve really was my friend.

I got my Billy Wootres pattern book and pack from Paul and Rosa at Leather Wranglers. Best pattern pack I have. The patterns are line drawings, with notations on some, sketching flowers and flows, and a boatload of patterns. There are some pictures of the finished work, and it is inspirational. Well worth the money to me and many thanks to everyone involved in making this available. Here's the link - Billy Wootres patterns .

Troy, I have had a Dozier for coming up on two years. It does a have nice thin blade and is a great knife. I bought a 4" Gomph this summer as a general user and 6" Gomph for a skiver. They are all made from D2. The Gomphs have a little meatier blade, but a longer taper than most of the other new knives I see around.

Geoff, From Bob Douglas or Barry King, probably a #2. From Jeremiah Watt, a #0. For straps I like more of a half round edge vs, the corner knocked off and the side being straight through the middle.