TXAG

I've gotten away from using pins of any sort...too much of a PITA. I can usually see the parallels and where to split fine...it's just hard for me to know exactly where to begin.

PM sent to smileyboy re: springfield leather.

Just because I understand the concept doesn't mean I have the technique down...but I'm working on it.

Thank you very much for taking time to make those pics. I think it will help a great deal. I apologize for asking what is probably a very stupid question...but can you please tell me where your pics begin? I don't see an under 2-x anywhere at the end of the second pass. I'm sure it is probably something I am doing wrong... Edit: Did you start the 3rd and 4th passes at the side opposite of the original standing end? If so, is that how you were able to get those passes centered so there wasn't one row of the first color on one end and three on the other side?

That helps, Buck...I'm on the right track now...now I need to figure out how many x's to go under after the first half-cycle...

Tracym is correct -- it isn't just doubled. It's four different knots, offset by one each. I saw a pic of a doubled one on here...I'll try to post it so people can see the difference.

Ok, well...I tried it, but I cannot get the fourth pass started correctly. I did the first two in one color and the third one in a different color...doing that leave one "row" of the first color at the bottom (where the standing end is) and then two rows (x's) of the first color at the other side. And I still can't seem to begin the fourth pass correctly. I'll try to mess with it some more tomorrow. Sure wish I knew where everyone disappeared to that could answer my questions without even having to hardly think about it.

You should see what Bruce Johnson has...he will give you a fair/honest deal.

Yeah...a good deal for the seller...

Ok, well I have used one of those a bit and I think you'll find it is really not suited to materials like that. Most folks buy them to do quilting...for sewing a couple layers of light cloth together... Couple of layers of F111 rip stop nylon or something, fine. Multiple layers of 500D, not so much.

That's sort of what I'm thinking too...going to try the fourth pass in a little while.

Are you actually trying to sew leather and/or cordura with that machine?

Thanks...got that jotted down in my notebook... Still need to try to figure out that fourth pass...I'm going to try to extrapolate it from the other ones, but it would be helpful if someone else could confirm where/how to start out on the fourth pass...

Buck...what size strings did you use for the plait and what did you use for a core?

Yeah...problem is, I don't know how to start the third and fourth passes...that's what I've been trying to figure out. First two, no problem. Don't know how to begin the third pass (where and how many U/O to begin...)

And...I am pretty sure it is a 9L x 8B base, but hell if I can get the third and fourth passes correct.

Ok, from this post in another thread... http://leatherworker...75 "Bud Brewer gave us these Os & Us: I don?t know anything about types, an I definitely don?t know anything about the math of these things. Long ago I sat down an figured out the way the passes go under an wrote it down. Lost it an so, redid it again. I think it is correct. Maybe this will help with the knots PINEAPPLES 2 pass ? first pass under 2 at the top, under 2 at the bottom. There after, under 3 both top and bottom. (basic pineapple) 3 pass ? first pass under 2 at top, under 4 at bottom. There after under 3 at top and under 5 at bottom 4 pass ? first pass under 2 at top, under 6 at bottom. There after under 3 at top and under 7 at bottom 5 pass ? first pass under 2 at top, under 8 at bottom. There after under 3 at top and under 9 at bottom 6 pass ? first pass under 2 at top, under 10 at bottom. There after under 3 at top and under 11 at bottom" Can someone please explain this info from the late Bud Brewer? Was he referring to Type 3 pineapple knots?

I've completed the 9L x 8B w/pineapple interweave, so it looks the same as the knot, but without the extra passes to double everything. Not sure how to continue...

My favorite one is like the heel knot...it cinches down on both ends to help keep everything contained...

Ok, I will look at this when I get home this afternoon...thanks...

Will send you a PM on this...

Thanks, tracym...I did find a tutorial for a 9L x 8B, so am going to try that later after I step away from it for a while. Bucksnort -- if I were looking at this from your perspective (experience), what you said would probably make a lot more sense. I guess I just don't know enough yet to "get it". Like tracym, I am starting to figure out the patterns as far as when to split parallels, how to go under x's (and how many)...but for the life of me, I cannot figure out this knot.

AAAAAAaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You could do what I did...start it on a larger mandrel, then transfer it to a smaller diameter one...that should give you more room to work while keeping everything straight... 4 bight? How many leads/parts? You're starting to sound like gail. So can I just start with a 7L x 6B knot then? I'm not sure what you mean by an "expansion pass". I'll try to find a 9L x 9B (I think that's what you mean) in Tom Hall's book and start with that. I'm so confused...none of this makes any sense to me at all. Again, can you please let me know what a "standard" herringbone/pineapple weave is? There seem to be about a million different ones or so... I do not understand this. I guess I am just too stupid to be able to tie this stuff. Pretty strongly considering giving up on this stuff right about now. Also, "stuff" was not the first word to come to mind, but this is a family forum and I am trying to keep it family friendly.

Go read the threads I've posted in this section as most of them deal with the same problems you might encounter in understanding these knots...I use the jumbo permalock, but they're cheap so I'd probably get one of each if I were you. The size really depends on the size lace you're going to use...if you switch to smaller lace later, you'll find a smaller needle works better. There are some that do not use needles at all and just make a gap with a fid and feed the lace through that gap. There are many tutorials on the internet, so you can get by for now without the Grant book. Check out my threads and questions I've posted...many of them have been answered. (Some haven't and it doesn't look like they ever will...)